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#617425 - 30/12/06 11:24 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
BlueSky Offline
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Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 2286
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Originally posted by MattyX:
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSky:
[b]So by your statement, if the surface is moving sideways, the craft will go forward?
No, if the surface is moving sideways it would create friction with the wheels which are designed to move longitudinally, not laterally. A plane with landing gear mounted sideways would be able to create forward motion with the props/jets, but would have a hard time overcoming the additional friction. That's why the smart fellas over at lockheed and boeing like to put the wheels on longitudinally. However, if the surface was ice (or the magical friction-free or friction-light surface) and the plane could have four sets of sideways landing gear and still move forward and take off.[/b]
Yeah, I know. That was a rhetorical question meant to annoy. Did it work? :p

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#617426 - 30/12/06 11:24 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeffW:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b] .....The WHEELS will travel at twice the rate relative to the conveyor.....
Not exactly.

The wheels will rotate at twice their normal rate.[/b]
Yeah, I thought about that after I typed it.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617427 - 30/12/06 11:26 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
The jet has to overcome it's weight to move forward.

So the friction of the wheels IS relevant.

If it weren't, you could walk up to a plane and push it with your own force.
Guess what, Moby? You can do exactly that.

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#617428 - 30/12/06 11:27 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by MattyX:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]The jet has to overcome it's weight to move forward.

So the friction of the wheels IS relevant.

If it weren't, you could walk up to a plane and push it with your own force.
Guess what, Moby? You can do exactly that.[/b]
BWAHAHAHAHA.

Go try.

They do a plane pull at Dulles every year.

It takes at least 20 people to pull a plane. They have to overcome the friction.

Maybe I should be more specific - under your scenario, you could tap the plane with your finger and it would roll foward.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617429 - 30/12/06 11:46 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSky:
This is giving me a headache.

What if the question was a similar conveyor on a downward slope with a vehicle on it with free-spinning wheels? No matter how fast the conveyor went, gravity would pull the vehicle downhill, right?

That's causing me to rethink my position though all my previous arguments still seem valid.

Good grief.
If the conveyor is fast enough to overcome gravity, then yes, it would stay put, even on a downhill slope (however, it would have to travel faster than the plane at that point).

Gravity was already equalized in the horizontal position - the force pushing up on the landing assembly.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617430 - 30/12/06 11:47 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by porsche996:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by MattyX:
If, however, you applied an external force to the car, like a big-ass fan, then the car would move over the ice.
You have just added a second power source.

The plane does NOT have a second power source.[/b]
Moby, you just contradicted your position, and you don't even know it...

The plane doesn't have a "second" power source. It has 1 power source.[/b]
EXACTLY. The car by itself would not have a secondary power source. It won't move.

Put the fan on it - it has a secondary power source.

Again - try the rope example. The rope is not fluid, and it is taught - meaning it's connected to something else.

Moby, you need to open your mind up a bit and take off the blinders.....The rope represents a vector. Similarly, the air also represents that same vector on a similar experiment. The two are representative of the EXACT SAME THING....

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#617431 - 30/12/06 11:50 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
XPLORx4 Offline
Member

Registered: 23/03/01
Posts: 1906
Loc: San Jose, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSky:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mobycat:
[qb]You guys are confusing the issue of what counteracts what to achieve flight.

Lift overcomes gravity.
Thrust overcomes drag.

BOTH must occur for flight. The wheels turning on a stationary surface allows the [b]thrust to overcome gravity
(the aircraft's weight).
[/b]
Uh, you first said "Thrust overcomes drag" and then later said "thrust overcomes gravity". I think you're confused.

The way I understand it is that there is no lift (which allows the plane to overcome gravity) until there is airflow over the wings.

In order for air to flow over the wings, the plane must be in motion RELATIVE TO THE AIR. Take the example of an airborne plane flying into a very strong headwind, with its engines thrusting at 50%. Let's say that the headwind is so strong, it produces enough drag on the aircraft that the plane appears to just hover over the ground.

Remember:
thrust <> drag (horizontal forces that occur in AIR)
lift <> gravity (vertical forces that also in AIR)

The plane's airspeed may be 100mph, but the headwind is also 100mph, so its groundspeed is 0mph. The plane doesn't move over the ground but as far as the air molecules are concerned, the plane is moving through them.

Now, let's say the pilot of this plane just gets sick of not making any progress because it's so windy. He could just position the ailerons to lower the lift produced over the wing, and let gravity bring the plane to the ground. (Of course, in order to prevent the plane from moving backward because of the headwind, he'd have to keep the engines thrusting at 50%.)

But, if he wanted to actually make some forward progress (i.e. groundspeed), he could just increase the throttle to 100%, which would allow the engine thrust to overcome the drag caused by the headwind.

OK, now: let's say that directly beneath the plane is a conveyor belt that's moving backward at 100mph, exactly the speed of the headwind. The plane is still in the air, thrusting away at 50%, hovering over the conveyor belt.

The pilot looks down and sees this racing conveyor belt and wants to set the plane down on it. His plane is equipped with special wheel motors that start to spin the tires really fast so that they don't skid when they hit the ground. (You've seen how plane tires always skid when planes land, right?) Let's say he operates these motors so that the tires are spinning at 100mph, exactly the speed of the conveyor belt, then disengages them as soon as the plane touches down.

(Remember, the plane is still in the air, fighting the headwind, hovering in place over the racing conveyor belt.)

Now, the plane is flying through air molecules, the tires are spinning, and the conveyor is racing backwards at the same speed the tires are spinning (which also happens to be the same speed of the headwind).

When the pilot moves the ailerons and sets the plane down on the conveyor ,the forward-spinning tires and the backward-moving conveyor speeds cancel each other out, so the plane neither moves forward nor backward. At this point, the tires are just freewheeling along the surface of the conveyor.

OK, remember that the engine thrust is at 50%. If the engine thrust is increased to 100%, the plane can overcome the drag produced by the headwind, and move forward. At this point, the pilot could either keep the plane on the ground with the ailerons and increase thrust to move forward, or he could make the plane ascend with the ailerons and increase thrust to move forward.

Either way, it doesn't matter whether the tires are in contact with the ground or conveyor, since the engine thrust is overcoming drag and the ailerons are increasing or decreasing lift over the wing.

If there's less (or zero) headwind, 50% thrust will just move the plane forward through the air, since there's less drag.
_________________________
4x4 in uppercase is $X$!!!
1997 R50: VG33E/RE4R01A/TX10/3.7/R200A/ARB/4.636/H233B/ARB/4.636/321150R15

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#617432 - 30/12/06 11:50 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by porsche996:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
quote:
Originally posted by MattyX:
If, however, you applied an external force to the car, like a big-ass fan, then the car would move over the ice.
You have just added a second power source.

The plane does NOT have a second power source.[/b]
Moby, you just contradicted your position, and you don't even know it...

The plane doesn't have a "second" power source. It has 1 power source.[/b]
EXACTLY. The car by itself would not have a secondary power source. It won't move.

Put the fan on it - it has a secondary power source.

Again - try the rope example. The rope is not fluid, and it is taught - meaning it's connected to something else.

Moby, you need to open your mind up a bit and take off the blinders.....The rope represents a vector. Similarly, the air also represents that same vector on a similar experiment. The two are representative of the EXACT SAME THING....

No they aren't. A rope is not a gas, is not fluid. That's key.

If I put myself on skates, and pull on an "air rope", will I move forward? No. I can't overcome the friction of the wheels.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617433 - 30/12/06 11:52 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Anonymous
Unregistered


You people just don't get it.....If the conveyor is matching the plane's speed, the wheels will just be spinning twice as fast as the plane is actually travelling. However, the plane will still be moving forward......Forward motion will give the plane the lift required to take off. You are all STILL hung up on the wheels vs the conveyor. There is a third force at work here....the engines. And, yet again, I'll say that the conveyor is not working against the engines AT ALL! The engines are working completely independant of the conveyor....

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#617434 - 30/12/06 11:54 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

No they aren't. A rope is not a gas, is not fluid. That's key.

If I put myself on skates, and pull on an "air rope", will I move forward? No. I can't overcome the friction of the wheels.
Open your mind man!!! Look at an air tunnel for example....the air looks like a rope coming through the turbines. Stop thinking of the rope as the actual object it is and start thinking of it more abstractly - as a stream of air for example wink

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#617435 - 30/12/06 11:54 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
LOL

laugh

sigh

I noticed alot of people thinking the plane would appear stationary, if the conveyor went at the plane's speed towards it.

It comes down to STILL thinking that it moves like an Xterra.

I noticed a lot of people thinking that somehow if the conveyor went the same speed as the plane, that the plane was NOT MOVING.

I also noticed people thinking that the air speed would be zero, so no lift would be created...for two wrong reasons.

The first reason is because they think the plane can't move.

The second reason is they forget the wind is typically less important than the speed of the plane THROUGH the stationary air, as in calm flight, etc....

All coming down to not realizing that the plane can move, and that the conveyor ONLY moves IF the Plane MOVES...and that a plane's speed is measured along the planet, NOT across the things under them..otherwise your ground speed would be different as you crossed a river's flow, etc...which of course it isn't (The speed along the BELT IS NOT THE PLANE'S speed).

____________

Absorb this, PLEASE!!!!!!!!

______________

1. If the conveyor is moving, it is ONLY IF THE PLANE IS MOVING.

2. The Plane's speed has NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS TIRE'S SPEED. (IF the plane is in the air, and I climb out and spin the tires, does it change how fast the plane is going?)

3. If I am walking on a tread mill "at 4 mph..." measured as if I had a geared speedometer...I am REALLY GOING ZERO MPH GROUND SPEED.

4. IF I am really going ZERO MPH, THEN, THE CONVEYOR IS GOING ZERO MPH! (It matches the speed)

5. Your SPEED had NOTHING to do with your tire rotation...If I am on ice in my X, and I nail the gas, my tire rotation/speedometer SAYS I might be going 30 mph...but, I might be barely moving, maybe at ZERO, or 1-2 mph, etc....

NO MATTER HOW FAST MY TIRES ARE GOING.

6. If the Conveyor moves AT ALL, it means the plane is MOVING.

7. If the plane is moving...THEN the Conveyor belt is moving.

8. The Plane CANNOT BE STANDING STILL ON THE BELT....OR the Conveyor Belt would be NOT MOVING.

9. If the plane IS moving...it DOES NOT MATTER IF THE BELT IS MOVING, BECAUSE THE PLANE DOES NOT NEED THE BELT TO MOVE THE PLANE....IT HAS THRUST.

10. So - a guy, next to the belt, would see the plane move forward...through the air, along the belt, etc...he'd see the belt turning towards the plane like a tread mill....he's see the THRUST is pushing the plane forwards...he's see that the TIRES are merely LETTING THE BELT SLIP ALONG UNDER THE PLANE.

11. The TIRES are MOVING AT THE GROUND SPEED OF THE PLANE, and, AT THE BELT SPEED (Which matches the speed of the plane) ....and ROTATING at DOUBLE the belt speed.

12. Do NOT think that the SPEED OF THE AIR matters...its the SPEED OF THE WING THOUGH the AIR that matters, and that creates lift in this scenario.

13. The WINGS of the plane are moving forward at the same speed as the belt, because the belt matches the PLANE'S speed...as the WINGS accelerate, so does the belt, AND SO DOES THE SPEED OF THE WING THROUGH THE AIR.

14. When the speed of the wing (through the air) reaches its take off velocity...it just takes off.

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

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#617436 - 30/12/06 11:55 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
And, yet again, I'll say that the conveyor is not working against the engines [b]AT ALL! The engines are working completely independant of the conveyor....[/b]
The conveyor HAS to be working against the engines if it's matching the plane's speed.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617437 - 30/12/06 11:59 AM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
Member
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by TJ:

3. If I am walking on a tread mill "at 4 mph..." measured as if I had a geared speedometer...I am REALLY GOING ZERO MPH GROUND SPEED.
You are going zero compared to the ground AROUND the conveyor, not the conveyor. Which is also compared to the air since it is calm.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617438 - 30/12/06 12:01 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
XPLORx4 Offline
Member

Registered: 23/03/01
Posts: 1906
Loc: San Jose, CA
Dude, explain how a conveyor belt can work against engines that push air.
_________________________
4x4 in uppercase is $X$!!!
1997 R50: VG33E/RE4R01A/TX10/3.7/R200A/ARB/4.636/H233B/ARB/4.636/321150R15

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#617439 - 30/12/06 12:02 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
[b]And, yet again, I'll say that the conveyor is not working against the engines [b]AT ALL! The engines are working completely independant of the conveyor....[/b]
The conveyor HAS to be working against the engines if it's matching the plane's speed.[/b]
Dude...the only thing that can work against the engines is the air flowing through them. The conveyor is working on the wheels....

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#617440 - 30/12/06 12:02 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by XPLORx4:
Dude, explain how a conveyor belt can work against engines that push air.
The wheels are NOT frictionless.

The engines have to overcome that friction. But if they start to accelerate, the conveyor accelerates...cancelling out any forward movement.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617441 - 30/12/06 12:03 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
[b]And, yet again, I'll say that the conveyor is not working against the engines [b]AT ALL! The engines are working completely independant of the conveyor....[/b]
The conveyor HAS to be working against the engines if it's matching the plane's speed.[/b]
Dude...the only thing that can work against the engines is the air flowing through them. The conveyor is working on the wheels....[/b]
FRICTION.

You guys are completely ignoring friction.

If the engines are off, and if there was NO friction, and that conveyor belt moved, the plane shouldn't budge - it will just have rolling wheels.

But it WON'T. It WILL move backwards.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617442 - 30/12/06 12:04 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
XPLORx4 Offline
Member

Registered: 23/03/01
Posts: 1906
Loc: San Jose, CA
So you think that the friction of the wheels is so great that the plane can never gain momentum. Is that it?
_________________________
4x4 in uppercase is $X$!!!
1997 R50: VG33E/RE4R01A/TX10/3.7/R200A/ARB/4.636/H233B/ARB/4.636/321150R15

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#617443 - 30/12/06 12:05 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
BlueSky Offline
Member

Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 2286
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
You people just don't get it.....If the conveyor is matching the plane's speed, the wheels will just be spinning twice as fast as the plane is actually travelling. However, the plane will still be moving forward......Forward motion will give the plane the lift required to take off. You are all STILL hung up on the wheels vs the conveyor. There is a third force at work here....the engines. And, yet again, I'll say that the conveyor is not working against the engines [b]AT ALL! The engines are working completely independant of the conveyor....[/b]
And you're hung up on thinking the plane is weightless. The wheels ARE exerting force on the conveyor - the weight of the airplane.

Your arguments only make sense if the conveyor belt has a fixed maximum speed.

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#617444 - 30/12/06 12:05 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by XPLORx4:
So you think that the friction of the wheels is so great that the plane can never gain momentum. Is that it?
IF the conveyor can go fast enough to match the speed of the plane, yes.

IF it can. Which in this scenario, it supposedly can.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617445 - 30/12/06 12:05 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Anonymous
Unregistered


Back to your "rope is rope, not wind" comments Moby....

Is it just me, or does this look like a series of ropes travelling around the wing?!?


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#617446 - 30/12/06 12:06 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
XPLORx4 Offline
Member

Registered: 23/03/01
Posts: 1906
Loc: San Jose, CA
What does the weight of the plane have anything to do with forward movement?
_________________________
4x4 in uppercase is $X$!!!
1997 R50: VG33E/RE4R01A/TX10/3.7/R200A/ARB/4.636/H233B/ARB/4.636/321150R15

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#617447 - 30/12/06 12:06 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
[b]You people just don't get it.....If the conveyor is matching the plane's speed, the wheels will just be spinning twice as fast as the plane is actually travelling. However, the plane will still be moving forward......Forward motion will give the plane the lift required to take off. You are all STILL hung up on the wheels vs the conveyor. There is a third force at work here....the engines. And, yet again, I'll say that the conveyor is not working against the engines [b]AT ALL! The engines are working completely independant of the conveyor....[/b]
And you're hung up on thinking the plane is weightless. The wheels ARE exerting force on the conveyor - the weight of the airplane.[/b]
Exactly. The wheels are NOT irrelevant.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617448 - 30/12/06 12:07 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
Mobycat Offline
Member
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by XPLORx4:
What does the weight of the plane have anything to do with forward movement?
It determines how much the engines have to work to get the thing moving forward.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#617449 - 30/12/06 12:07 PM Re: Know that if you do not post in this thread today the human race may cease to exist
TJ Offline
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Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
You don't see why its an important distinction?

[Freak]

The plane's SPEED is not related to its tires rotation.

The speed of the conveyor's BELT is the speed of the plane, right?

The speed of the plane is NOT the speed of the plane along the conveyor BELT, its the speed of the PLANE.

The plane's speed is NOT the speed of its tire rotation, like on an Xterra's SPEEDOMETER.

Otherwise, my speedometer would say I was going zero mph when I'm stick in the snow and floored, and the tires spinning at 30 mph.

A Plane is NOT an Xterra.

The IMPORTANT facts are that the BELT speed matches the PLANE'S speed...

AND

That the PLANE'S speed is relative TO THE GROUND, NOT to the spinning belt.

Again...if your speedometer says you are going 50 mph while stuck in a ditch...will you REALLY be 50 miles away an hour later?

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

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