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#205984 - 15/05/06 03:18 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
TremorX Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1960
Loc: Waycross, GA
Quote:
Originally posted by MMNIAC:
Microsoft pissed me off even before the launch of the Xbox. If you were a PC game player then maybe you remember the way they hyped Halo as a PC game in all the gaming rags for several months. Then after they had gotten all the press and gotten all the PC gamers excited they pulled the bait and switch, anouncing it would be available only on the Xbox.
If THAT pissed you off, imagine how the Mac "gaming" community felt, since Halo was originaly supposed to hit them first. I hate using Macs, but I have to say, Bungie really bit the hand that fed them (see also: "Marathon")

But no hey lets all be retarded and blame Microsoft because that's what the cool kids do now
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#205985 - 16/05/06 10:31 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Origami Gangsta Offline
Member

Registered: 24/05/01
Posts: 6497
Loc: Dammit! Even CLOSER to Smith a...
Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
BTW, I want to play "MLB 06 The Show" on my 360, but can't because it's only exclusive to Playstation. Are you pissed about that too, Chris?
Well, I do have to chime in "The Show" is made by 989, which is a division of Sony, so.. Of course it's going to be exclusive..
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#205986 - 16/05/06 11:08 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Todrick:
but you are not mad at the metal gear or Final Fantasy Franchises?

if your gonna be outraged, at least be consistant.

little off topic... does that mean you also dispise Apple and all of their products/
Actually I am annoyed at Final Fantasy not being on Nintendo because I'm not that interested in the style of games on the PS or Xbox, so I'm not gonna spend the hundreds of dollars on either one. Is MLB a baseball game? I find it rather boring IRL so I don't think I'd want to play it in a game.

I guess I shoudd revise what I said, because your right it is inconsistant to say "you piss me off because of your exclusiveness." Then turn around and go play Ocarena of Time on my Gamecube, especially since Nintendo's blood line is exclusive. As a general, not absolute, rule I don't like proprietary, especially when it locks peopel into their products. I guess I "another exclusive for MS" and got pissed because it sounded like MS abusing their monopoly, again. It still kinda does, why would a game that has always been "cross platform" suddenly switch to xbox exclusive? Thats more the beef than anything because it does sound like MS strongarming people to do it their way. Do you disagree? And if you want examples of MS doing it in other areas I'll be more than happy to provide.

Of crouse, it would be a whole other ball game if MS didn't abuse their monopoly, and actually made a quality product. Which, from my perspective, they do neither and yes I use MS at work and the only way to describe it is that it feels unkept, unpolished, grungy, like something you just don't want to touch with a 10 foot pole but you have no choice. And no I'm not irrational because I do realize that very rarely is something black and white, so yes MS has made some good and useful products, but I choose not to use them because of principles.

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#205987 - 17/05/06 04:54 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
TremorX Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1960
Loc: Waycross, GA
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Ritchey:
MS abusing their monopoly
MS strongarming people to do it their way
MS doing it in other areas
if MS didn't abuse their monopoly, and actually made a quality product.
Jesus man, you really hate Microsoft don't you?
You know, Nintendo essentially had a "monopoly" in the video game market in the days of NES and the early SNES. The market is so saturated with crappy systems and even crappier games now that Microsoft can hardly be accused of doing anything that hasn't been done by every last one of its competitors in this arena. Sony got PLENTY of exclusives that could have just as easily ran on any other platform. Nintendo always has.

But when Microsoft does it, it makes baby Jesus cry? Okay, so using that logic, if every game was available on every system so that no one had any real advantage over the other, which one would you buy? Exclusive titles are what keeps the consoles competitive. Kudos to Microsoft for realizing this and roping in some actual good titles instead of banking on another Halo debacle.

Besides, more than likely, GTA4 will be about as 'exclusive' as it was on PS2; it'll show up on the XboxO for about 6 months, then trickle out to the PS3, and eventually the PC. Rockstar isn't that stupid.
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#205988 - 17/05/06 02:16 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by TremorX:
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Ritchey:
[b]MS abusing their monopoly
MS strongarming people to do it their way
MS doing it in other areas
if MS didn't abuse their monopoly, and actually made a quality product.
Jesus man, you really hate Microsoft don't you?
You know, Nintendo essentially had a "monopoly" in the video game market in the days of NES and the early SNES. The market is so saturated with crappy systems and even crappier games now that Microsoft can hardly be accused of doing anything that hasn't been done by every last one of its competitors in this arena. Sony got PLENTY of exclusives that could have just as easily ran on any other platform. Nintendo always has.

But when Microsoft does it, it makes baby Jesus cry? Okay, so using that logic, if every game was available on every system so that no one had any real advantage over the other, which one would you buy? Exclusive titles are what keeps the consoles competitive. Kudos to Microsoft for realizing this and roping in some actual good titles instead of banking on another Halo debacle.

Besides, more than likely, GTA4 will be about as 'exclusive' as it was on PS2; it'll show up on the XboxO for about 6 months, then trickle out to the PS3, and eventually the PC. Rockstar isn't that stupid.[/b]
Gee what made you think I hated Microsoft? laugh And Yes I share a special distaste for MS which I've had pretty much since 3.11/95 time, Why did I not like them back then? Because Windows was so damn unstable I couldn't do crap without something happening to it. And I've used almost every version of windows since then (ie 3.11 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2k, XP) so It's not like I'm not familiar with MS and their products. Of course I don't really expect people to share my same views or even agree with me, my opinion is soley based on my prior experiences, nor will I appologize for nor retract my opinion.

For some reason you seem to think that I have a problem with monopolies. Cisco pretty much has a monopoly, Apple has the portable media player monopoly, If you want a quality sound card you get a sound blaster... So I never said I had a problem with just a monopoly, if I did I must not have realized it and for that I appologize for the confusion. What I do have a problem is when someone starts to abuse that, for example using one program to force people to use another, which in turn forces them to use another. Example: exchange, you pretty much have to use outlook, and even if some one figures out the protocols for outlook/exchange they change the protocol, thus why it isn't feasable to use kmail or evolution.

Let me clarify what gets me about GTA being exclusive for the Xbox. The GTA3+ has pretty much always been cross platform, PS2, XBOX, PC. So when I hear that all of a sudden it's exclusive to the Xbox I think that smells kinda fishy. I think going from crossplatform to exclusive sucks but there isn't anything wrong with that, but when it's going exclusive to a company that a record of forcing people to their platform it sounds like strongarming and makes me a bit leary. Does that make sense? I don't ask you to agree with me just to understand where I'm coming from.

Of course my strong arm comment is completely void if it isn't exclusive, which I thought some one said earlier in the thread. If thats the case then I appologize.

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#205989 - 18/05/06 03:53 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
TremorX Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 1960
Loc: Waycross, GA
Eh, okay.

But then, why does anyone care if something isn't hitting the PS3? At $600, is anyone in their right mind actually going to buy one?!
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#205990 - 18/05/06 08:31 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
NismoXse02 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
The minute his biased opinion came out, he lost me. I don't understand why people always have to buy based on their personal agenda. I'm always looking for the best product at the best price, no matter who makes it. I own many brand name items (Sony, Microsoft, Panasonic, HP, Apple, etc.). I even own a generic brand flat panel monitor that I've had over 2 years and still love it. I don't care who makes it, just as long as I get the most bang for the buck. I really read the reviews too... I can pick out the biased ones :rolleyes: and unbiased ones pretty easily.

I've always said the majority of the Microsoft haters date back to 3.1 or 95-ME. I was one of them. 2K won me back and XP knocked it out of the park. I run some of the harshest programs and have never had one problem. Still, I will continue to watch the competition. I've used OS X for about a year and had enough... I still much prefer Win XP. I can't wait to see the next gen of both OS's. As far as consoles. I had the PS1 (not much competition). When I saw the PS2 come out with the same controllers (only black), a DVD player and not much else at that price, I was like yeah right. When I saw the Xbox come out with a built-in hard drive, ethernet port, 4 controller ports, etc. for the same price, I was sold. I went ahead and bought the 360 knowing that I'd be able to sell it if I liked the PS3. Once again, they messed up by trying to introduce the next standard format and charging everyone out the wazoo. Change it to HD and a more comfortable controller, then maybe we'll talk. [ThumbsUp]
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#205991 - 21/05/06 12:47 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Origami Gangsta Offline
Member

Registered: 24/05/01
Posts: 6497
Loc: Dammit! Even CLOSER to Smith a...
Funny how you always say everyone should follow their own opinion, not be a brand lover, make informed decisions, but you've been a Xbox apologist from the work go, Nismo.

I liked the PS2. I liked it better than the Xbox. I don't think the 360 is that great. Are some of the games cool? Yeah, they are. I fucking hate Madden on the 360, and I'm a big Madden player. I'm a big Metal Gear player too.

I don't like the controllers on the 360, the controllers on the Playstations work for me. Which is another reason why I go with the Playstation.

You have given me NO credible evidence that HD is going to beat Blu-Ray. None, whatsoever.

You've touting how intelligent you are at making a rational choice and not being a brand follower but you've been doing nothing but touting Xbox's superiority over the Playstation. How do you know? You haven't seen the damn machine yet. Cut the bullshit, you're just as jaded as everyone else.

The PS3 is going to give me the games I want. It gives me the controller I want. I don't give a shit about Blu-Ray or HD at this moment because I don't have an high-definition TV. Yes, the price is high, I don't deny it. But it's not high enough to where I feel completely uncomfortable playing it. Especially if it's a system I can enjoy for years, like I have with the last two Playstations.

Quit being such a hypocrite. It's really getting old.
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#205992 - 21/05/06 08:26 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
NismoXse02 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by Fried Rice Mofo:
Funny how you always say everyone should follow their own opinion, not be a brand lover, make informed decisions, but you've been a Xbox apologist from the work go, Nismo.
Um, I do not and will never have a biased opinion towards Microsoft. The minute they fall below the best bang for the buck, I have no problem switching to something else. I thought I made that pretty clear, so maybe if you remove the blinders, you'd see that. [Finger]
Quote:
I fucking hate Madden on the 360, and I'm a big Madden player. I'm a big Metal Gear player too.
If Sony would have released there's at the same time, it would have been the same game. [Freak]
Quote:
You have given me NO credible evidence that HD is going to beat Blu-Ray. None, whatsoever.
It's obviously still up in the air, how can I "prove" it. :rolleyes: Still, you have Mini disk, Laser disk, Atrac-3 and a few others. I'm sorry, but if you haven't realized that Sony only thinks they can make the standard media, you're helpless. Still, these are "gaming" system. I'm still going to buy a player for whatever media wins.
Quote:
You've touting how intelligent you are at making a rational choice and not being a brand follower but you've been doing nothing but touting Xbox's superiority over the Playstation. How do you know? You haven't seen the damn machine yet. Cut the bullshit, you're just as jaded as everyone else.
Does it matter that I haven't seen it? I've said numorous times that the game play between all systems will always be the same to the naked eye. I can read all I want about what's in them, along with that little thing called price tag.
Quote:
The PS3 is going to give me the games I want. It gives me the controller I want. I don't give a shit about Blu-Ray or HD at this moment because I don't have an high-definition TV. Yes, the price is high, I don't deny it. But it's not high enough to where I feel completely uncomfortable playing it. Especially if it's a system I can enjoy for years, like I have with the last two Playstations.
Well, it is your money, but let me get this straight. You're willing to pay double for a system that plays the same games? The PS3's price is based off the blueray, and you're not even going to utilize it? Sounds smart to me, I don't know what I was thinking.
Quote:
Quit being such a hypocrite. It's really getting old.
You hear that 360 backers? Don't be a hypocrite. It hurts Fried Rice's feelings. Everyone in the world needs to wear the Sony blinders so the Fried Rice's of the world don't get hurt in anyway. [LOL]
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#205993 - 21/05/06 09:49 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Origami Gangsta Offline
Member

Registered: 24/05/01
Posts: 6497
Loc: Dammit! Even CLOSER to Smith a...
Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
Um, I do not and will never have a biased opinion towards Microsoft. The minute they fall below the best bang for the buck, I have no problem switching to something else. I thought I made that pretty clear, so maybe if you remove the blinders, you'd see that. [Finger]
Yeah, I got the blinders on just as much as you do, pal. Only difference is mine says Sony while yours says Microsoft. [Finger]

Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
If Sony would have released there's at the same time, it would have been the same game. [Freak]
Sony didn't release shit. EA released Madden. They changed the way certain things were done on Madden on the 360. If such things like the playbook and whatnot are the same from here on out, I'm going to have to adjust or look for a new football game. I just didn't like it.

Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
It's obviously still up in the air, how can I "prove" it. :rolleyes: Still, you have Mini disk, Laser disk, Atrac-3 and a few others. I'm sorry, but if you haven't realized that Sony only thinks they can make the standard media, you're helpless. Still, these are "gaming" system. I'm still going to buy a player for whatever media wins.
Um, you're the one touting the doom of Blu-Ray to HD. I haven't decided who's going to win what yet. Nor do I really care at this point of the game, though I probably will in the future when I can afford more expensive toys.

I do realize the mistakes Sony has made in the past. Are they bullheaded when it comes to media format? Yep. But they even lost when their format was superior. See Beta vs. VHS for that.

Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
Does it matter that I haven't seen it? I've said numorous times that the game play between all systems will always be the same to the naked eye. I can read all I want about what's in them, along with that little thing called price tag.
Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
Well, it is your money, but let me get this straight. You're willing to pay double for a system that plays the same games? The PS3's price is based off the blueray, and you're not even going to utilize it? Sounds smart to me, I don't know what I was thinking.
Good for you. You buy what makes you happy, I'll buy what makes me happy. And yes,it does matter to me if I see it. I want the system controllers and gameplay in my hands, so I can have a first hand look at it.

Funny thing is, you touted how the Xbox was a superior product to the Playstation 2. Now you tout that the 360 is better than the PS3. Specifications aside, gameplay will be the same to the average consumers naked eye, as you mentioned. Yet the PS2 crushed the Xbox in sales. Must be all those people with the Sony blinders on, eh? Yeah, the same people that didn't buy Mini-Disk, ATRAC-3, etc.

In an era of cross platforming, games are going to become more exclusive. Xbox has GTA and Halo, Sony has Metal Gear and SOCOM. Whatever anyone's opinions are of those games, I know what I like. I like Metal Gear and SOCOM, I don't particularly get all kinds of excited for GTA and I think Halo is the most overrated piece of shit in gaming history. But that's me.

Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
You hear that 360 backers? Don't be a hypocrite. It hurts Fried Rice's feelings. Everyone in the world needs to wear the Sony blinders so the Fried Rice's of the world don't get hurt in anyway. [LOL]
Yeah Nismo, you really hurt my feelings. I weep in my corner everytime I read your posts.

Okay.
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#205994 - 22/05/06 12:31 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Paul H Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
This thread got way off topic.
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#205995 - 23/05/06 12:58 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Paul H Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
Moved to alr as requested.

Ding ding round one
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2001 Super Black XE R.I.P. 09/05/06
My Blog

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#205996 - 23/05/06 01:32 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Penis

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#205997 - 24/05/06 03:52 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Paul H Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewH:
I like Penis
[Huh?]
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#205998 - 24/05/06 06:26 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
I am a knob gobbler, so I share that sentiment
I can play too :-)

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#205999 - 24/05/06 07:29 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
NismoXse02 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
LOL, are you talking about where I sent you a PM wondering why a thread would get locked as oppose to going to the ALR? That can't be it because you haven't read it yet, so who was it? laugh Besides, the thread was just barely off-topic compared to the crap I see in other forums. Oh well, it's in the ALR now. Not going to be much fun considering it's a nerd war, but I'll gladly respond.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fried Rice Mofo:
Yeah, I got the blinders on just as much as you do, pal. Only difference is mine says Sony while yours says Microsoft.
Yours says "Sony" while mine says "$aving $$$". I could care less about Microsoft... I care about the most bang for the buck.
Quote:
Sony didn't release shit. EA released Madden. They changed the way certain things were done on Madden on the 360. If such things like the playbook and whatnot are the same from here on out, I'm going to have to adjust or look for a new football game. I just didn't like it.
I know it's EA's game, I was saying that if the PS3 was out, it would be the same game that was on the 360. It always is. It's not the 360's fault that it was bad like you implied. I was just saying that it would have been no different on the PS3.
Quote:
Um, you're the one touting the doom of Blu-Ray to HD. I haven't decided who's going to win what yet. Nor do I really care at this point of the game, though I probably will in the future when I can afford more expensive toys.
I'm not touting, just stating the facts... big difference. I'm not saying it's 100% sure, but the facts and history show otherwise. And if someone listens to me without conducting their own research, that's their own fault.
Quote:
I do realize the mistakes Sony has made in the past. Are they bullheaded when it comes to media format? Yep. But they even lost when their format was superior. See Beta vs. VHS for that.
Personally, I liked the minidisk idea over CD's, but I'm glad I waited to see if it caught on.
Quote:
Funny thing is, you touted how the Xbox was a superior product to the Playstation 2.
Now that I did. Both were out and it was clear as day. You got a lot more with the Xbox. The PS2 was just a PS1 with better graphics and a DVD player. However, you were able to buy "addons" to make it have all the same stuff that you got out of box from the Xbox. By then, you were double the price of the Xbox. [LOL]
Quote:
Now you tout that the 360 is better than the PS3. Specifications aside, gameplay will be the same to the average consumers naked eye, as you mentioned. Yet the PS2 crushed the Xbox in sales. Must be all those people with the Sony blinders on, eh? Yeah, the same people that didn't buy Mini-Disk, ATRAC-3, etc.
Better? No. They will be the same as far as gameplay goes. However, it blows my mind that someone will buy a system that has a jacked up price because of the blueray player, and you're not even going to use it. Like I said, it's your money, but still. [Freak] I also said it's better because I'm spending a little now on the 360 and a little later on the player that "wins". Why would I throw all my eggs in one basket, especially when history shows me it fails? I'd be very pissed if I did buy that minidisk player.

As far as P2 sales... well, duh! That's not even a valid point. PS2 was released a year before the Xbox. PS2 has a lot more loyal fans over the globe. Considering the market and time the Xbox initial release date, the Xbox did extremely well. This generation will be more of a fair battle (domestically).
Quote:
In an era of cross platforming, games are going to become more exclusive. Xbox has GTA and Halo, Sony has Metal Gear and SOCOM. Whatever anyone's opinions are of those games, I know what I like. I like Metal Gear and SOCOM, I don't particularly get all kinds of excited for GTA and I think Halo is the most overrated piece of shit in gaming history. But that's me.
The one thing that almost got me back to the PS was the GTA series. I always had to end up playing that on the PC (couldn't wait for the Xbox version). Now, no longer. I felt the same way as you on Halo, but I've been playing it alot lately (for some odd reason it puts my son to sleep when I hold him and play) and I've gotten shockingly good. It's a lot more fun that I thought. I can kick my own ass and anyone elses with a keyboard and mouse, but it's definitely awesome for what it is. I'll admit that I never played Metal Gear or Socom, but I'm sure they are fun games as well.
Quote:
Yeah Nismo, you really hurt my feelings. I weep in my corner everytime I read your posts.
Then quit whining when someone disses "your" system. Oh wait, we're in the ALR... Fried Rice Mofo, you fuckin' piece of shit. I'll come over there and kick the shit out of you if you buy a PS3. It's people like you that ruin this great country by buying foreign crap you liberal piece of crap. You're probably an athiest mother fucker too. Hmm, I think that about covers the ALR requirements. [Wave]
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Hoosier by birth, Red Raider by choice... like KNIGHT and day.

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#206000 - 24/05/06 08:45 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
BigE515 Offline
Member

Registered: 13/10/02
Posts: 5734
Loc: Chelmsford,MA
Leave it to you two shitheads to get a VIDEO GAME post sent to the ALR!!

"I'm always right!"
-"Uh-uh, I am! You're a poo-poo head!"
"Nooooooo! Whatever you say bounces off me and goes right back to you!"

[Save the fine unicorns]
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#206001 - 24/05/06 02:58 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
NismoXse02 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
[Save the fine unicorns] Chowdahead! My computer can kick your computers ass! Now, don't you have to go watch the playoffs of figure skating, soccer and dicks w/ sticks rolled into one sport? [Finger]
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Hoosier by birth, Red Raider by choice... like KNIGHT and day.

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#206002 - 24/05/06 03:45 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Anonymous
Unregistered


I disagree, Donkey Kong is the best game ever.

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#206003 - 25/05/06 12:33 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Paul H Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
It was me nismo I got it in email. I just havn't taken the time to look at it here. Now you should be happy.

And the arguing is for the alr not the basement. discussions yes arguing no.
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#206004 - 05/06/06 11:37 AM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow, a fight over video games.

I think we need to start a new topic for the ALR.

Less Filling.

Tastes Great!

Less filling.

Tastes great!

Less Filling.

Tastes Great!

Less Filling.

Tastes great!

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#206005 - 05/06/06 01:02 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
BoneCrusher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 809
Loc: In a Bar near YOU!
tastes filling

less great!
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Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store not a government agency

99% of democrats give the rest a bad name

Liberals are constantly Inflaming the culture war. They seem to forget which side has all the guns.

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#206006 - 05/06/06 04:58 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap...
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewH:
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
[b] I am a knob gobbler, so I share that sentiment
can I play with your's, too :-)[/b]
Sick fuck.
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#679781 - 22/02/13 11:13 PM Re: Nintendo announces info on its newest stinking pile of crap... [Re: Anonymous]
Rainman_mark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 22/02/13
Posts: 5
I am a dumb-shit that can only post stupid shit to really old posts adding nothing of value at all.

So yes, I AM a dumb-ass.


Edited by Gonzo-2 (25/02/13 05:57 PM)
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