shrockworks xterraparts
XOC Decal
Newest Members
Glim, ChossWrangler, Patman, ChargedX, Randy Howerton
10084 Registered Users
Recent Posts
Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered (), 108 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#88037 - 30/12/05 11:13 PM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Shlepping My Own Product?

I have one, but,.... I don't make them or sell them...I get nothing from someone buying one...and I assume Jeff gets nothing from TJM....

Not sure where the idea came from that I work for Shrockworks....I don't if you need confirmation...I absolutely do NOT work for Shrockworks.

I'm a fan of their stuff, and think Jim Shrocks a good guy and all, but I have no idea where the "my own product" thing came from?

Jeff and I go at this all the time, its kind of a game...its not like hypnosis, where he and I bring unwitting souls to TJM or Shrockworks or whatever.

Jeff picks a product to champion as an alternative to one I suggest, and we go back and forth. Its healthy, and allows a good discussion on the merits of each product.

Ironically, my initial post says its not for everyone.

We just disagree on the results of our respective research...I see a solid wing as an advantage, he see's a removable wing as an advantage, I see concealing the winch from theft as an advantage, he see's more access to the winch face as an advantage...and so forth, I see thicker metal as an advantage, he sees delivered price as outweighing that, etc...we are both right, for us, and I believe I said things to this effect quite a few times.

Yeah, I use smilies...I smile a lot in real life, and its an expression...I'm me online and off.

I also never said anything untrue in the comparisons between the bumpers...and I meant what I said about Jeff, I rushed the composition a bit, and if it came out giving the wrong impression, I'm sorry, I do think he's a good guy, and just hates quitting an argument before the other side concedes...and I used to be like that, but its not a big deal anymore....

The consensus concept is based solely upon my own impression of what I see and hear, and I said it SEEMS to be the best, because I believe it seems that way, to me....and most people I have contact with believe the same thing....hence its seeming to be the best in a consensus....so if most people I wheel with think it, thats a consensus.

Presenting as facts is a strange phrase, I said seems to be, etc...not "Based upon the latest statistical analysis certified by an independant accounting firm of..." etc.?

I will be the first to reiterate something can be generally the best, but not the best for everyone...just like an X, its not the best truck for every one, etc....but the consensus here is that is the best for us...but we have daily posts from people who are fed up with SOMETHING about the X, mpg, power, whatever...so, its not the best for everybody.

I also believe from a utility point of view its the best as well, AND completely agree that its subjective, and what's important to me, like approach angle, may be outweighed by not being able to remove the wings for someone else....and I mentioned that that's why they make all those different brands...there's something for every one....which is decidedly NOT the same as NOT giving any other option credit...

We are talking about bumpers ferchrissakes, not how to elect the next pope or acheive world peace...I would have thought we could banter about the topic w/o getting hot under the collar/political/religeous about which is the best bumper.

laugh

So - Saying one type of bumper is better, and insulting anyone who disagrees is OK...but posting a smily or twelve and itemizing the differences insults the entire Xterra community?

I think I give a lot to the community. I take the time to help the newbies out with questions that others yell at them for asking, because they don't know its a problem yet....and I feel bad for them.

I can't believe anyone would look at the body of my posts here, or on similar boards, and decide I don't give, and that I'm an insult to the community.

And to give me a TROLL rating? ME? Come on...I'm the anti-troll.

laugh

You might want to re-read what ever gave you the wrong impression....and re-calibrate your opinion (Not about what bumper, that's not the important part...), about who I am.

laugh

PS - I just noticed the winky thing after the insult thing....see what happens when I'm rushing around? Sheesh.

:rolleyes:

(The Shlepping thing remains the prime issue.)
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88038 - 30/12/05 11:24 PM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Thanks....her liver score jumped into the 40's...anything over 28 put her number 1 to get the next liver, and the scale stops at 50...but there just aren't any livers....she's in ICU, her kidneys shut down and she had to go onto dialysis...she just came out...but its still touch and go....we are so afraid she's going to die.

frown

Her sister voluteered 60% of her liver for a live transplant (It can regenerate with time...), but she would not let her risk it, she'd rather die than subject her sister to the risks of the rather involved and painful surgery...but the sister would rather go through it than let her die....its just agonizing.

My wife and I are bouncing back and forth doing consoling, and feeding people, etc...and in between, I had to move a ton of boxes, help my youngest finish his application to a graduate school that has to go out in tomorrow's mail with a few hundred pages of attachments....

[Freak]

Its been like this all week....starting to get bad the friday before xmas when she went into the hospital in a health nose dive (Wilson's Disease, liver gives out...), and getting prgressively worse as the donor's are not appearing, and the liver functions dropped more and more.
[Crybaby]

Its been hell.

Oh, Artera....I bet this went a bit off from here you thought it would. wink

Hope its been illuminating.

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88039 - 30/12/05 11:46 PM Re: NO more brushguards
dezurtrat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1198
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Shlepping My Own Product?
Yea, Where did that come from??? WTF??? [Huh?]

Quote:
...you're lucky it didn't get plucked and shipped off to the admin forum.
WTF???? How does that work??? For giving your opinion??? [Huh?]

Man, that was just weird!
_________________________
Asking stupid questions is much easier than correcting dumb mistakes.

Top
#88040 - 31/12/05 01:13 AM Re: NO more brushguards
TravelingFool Offline
Member

Registered: 17/10/00
Posts: 6013
Loc: Prior Lake, MN
Sorry, my bad for the confusion about TJ working for Shrock. Sure looked like it from his post. Obviously the post didn't get yanked because you do NOT work there. However...

TJ, you said, "I also never said anything untrue in the comparisons between the bumpers..." I call Shenanigans. You specifically stated that "The consensus is..." That indicates a collective opinion, NOT your own. Did you post a poll? How can you make that statement? Where did you get your data?

You also say, "A few people want the winch completely exposed though.." What's "a few?" 3? 130? everyone except for you? What does that mean? Its pointed and shady and wrong. Tell people that YOU prefer to have the winch hidden. That's truth. Other people don't need you to make that decision for them. Do you know for a fact that the majority of wheelers out there prefer a hidden and unaccessible winch to an exposed one?

The bottom line is/was, I felt "deceived" by your initial post after I found out who you "really were." Just be careful how you say things.

Also, if anyone cares to post Brent's latest misadventure... I (for one) would certainly love the read!
_________________________
kjw &
the PNUTMNM

The liver is evil, and must be punished...

Top
#88041 - 31/12/05 07:37 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by TJ:
.....I get nothing from someone buying one...and I assume Jeff gets nothing from TJM....Jeff and I go at this all the time, its kind of a game......Ironically, my initial post says its not for everyone.....I see thicker metal as an advantage, he sees delivered price as outweighing that, etc....he's a good guy, and just hates quitting an argument before the other side concedes...
Holy Crap!

Another book.

I did not buy the TJM based on price. I could have bought the Calmini and paid $300 to ship it had I wanted to.

I bought the TJM for two reasons: weight and the uber-solid frame connection. Anybody who's seen how the TJM connects to the frame knows it has well engineered bractetry. This put less stress on the frame horns. To me this, this is more important than the thicker metal.

.......

I have never pushed the TJM on anybody. I have only presented it as an option.

That's a far cry from trying to shove a product down people's throats by writing books on how they will be going against this fabled "consensus" if they buy an alternative product.

Sorry, man but that's just lame. [ThumbsDown]

Top
#88042 - 31/12/05 09:24 AM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Jeff - You are putting things in a light that does not exist, and then reacting as if it did.

I'm thinking, wow, what the hell did I say?

I read it, and I do not think I said what you say I said.

I gave my opinion, as opinion, and I gave some itemized differences between the products...

You insisted I was not recognizing the advantages of other products, and I'd reiterate why you thought it, and how that wasn't the case....even pointing out your points as our difference in opinion.

You are coming to the odd conclusion that I somehow say some specifics about products, and that somehow no one is allowed to disagree?

?

I NEVER said no one could disagree....that was added by you as if it were a fact....but it never came from me.

I see where several times I mentioned the TJM advantages, and ARB, and Calmini's...and the Shrock's disavantages...and I see no where you touting the Shrock's advantages.

I see myself taking the time I don't have to spare to try to address all of your concerns, and you saying "Book", and attacking the format of the responses rather than the content.

:rolleyes:

long != wrong

Book != Not true

If I say the metal on the ARB's wing is thin, the Shrock's is thick, and the TJM's bolted on, I am well within the realm of discussion, and I am well within reason for saying it...you are making blanket declarations attacking the messenger because you don't like the message.

I ain't doin what you're saying I'm doin.

On the re-read, if any one is making statements w/o accompaning calm itemization of pluses and minuses, its you.

Saying it exists, then calling that lame, doesn't make it real.

Am I insane?

Anyone else think I've said that no one is allowed to discuss their opinion?

[Freak]

Anyone at ALL believe I AM Shrock or whatever?

[Freak]
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88043 - 31/12/05 09:46 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by PNUTMNM:
....TJ, you said, "I also never said anything untrue in the comparisons between the bumpers..." I call Shenanigans. You specifically stated that "The consensus is..." That indicates a collective opinion, NOT your own. Did you post a poll? How can you make that statement? Where did you get your data?

You also say, "A few people want the winch completely exposed though.." What's "a few?" 3? 130? everyone except for you? What does that mean? Its pointed and shady and wrong. Tell people that YOU prefer to have the winch hidden. That's truth. Other people don't need you to make that decision for them. Do you know for a fact that the majority of wheelers out there prefer a hidden and unaccessible winch to an exposed one?

The bottom line is/was, I felt "deceived"...
I felt deceived, too.

To further deceive, he denies being misleading even after he's been quoted.

He has presented HIS own opinion as "the consensus" and made unfounded blanket statements.

Sorry, but bullsh1t is bullsh1t.

Can somebody kill this retarded thread?


Top
#88044 - 31/12/05 10:08 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Saline Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 786
Loc: Fruita , CO
An arguement over bumpers? nice.......... [Argue]
_________________________
Desert Solitaire

Top
#88045 - 31/12/05 10:48 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered



Top
#88046 - 31/12/05 12:27 PM Re: NO more brushguards
dezurtrat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1198
Loc: Tucson, AZ
OK, here is MHO!

First off, TJ shouldn’t have said consensus because there probably isn’t one. But hell, everyone does it. You talk with your peeps you wheel with, chat with, or friends you hang with and you all agree on something so you claim there is a consensus. Hell, if I can agree with the voices in my head I think there is a consensus! laugh So he was stating his opinion about a consensus. I think he clarified and conceded that later. But you win there Jeff.

Secondly, I think he was stating his opinion about the best bumper period for wheeling. Not based on what you can afford, what you think looks best, or cost to ship or anything else! It’s a good debate. What is the best bumper for hitting the trails period? I like the debate. It’s like arguing what the best off road vehicle is. Not based on what you can afford, not looks, not where you can buy it, or anything else.

So given that, what bumper would you put on your vehicle for wheeling if you could have anyone? Let’s hear it. I think it’s a great debate!

Don’t make me pull out the BCS (Bumper Championship Series) poll! smile
_________________________
Asking stupid questions is much easier than correcting dumb mistakes.

Top
#88047 - 31/12/05 05:24 PM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


TJ,

Perhaps there isn't a "consensus" as to which bumper is best. Consensus implies a unanimous decision made by all of us as a whole.

However, I believe that MOST of us agree with you. You know it, I know it, and Jeff knows it (though I doubt he will ever be willing to admit it, even to himself).

Thanks for all your informative posts. I respect your VERY informed opinions and always look forward to your posts.

Keep up the good work! [ThumbsUp]

EDIT...BTW, If anyone was still wondering, my vote is for Shrock. It's the toughest, best looking (IMHO), and hides the winch (a good thing if you ever park in a place where someone might be tempted to take it). The extra $$$ is worth it!

wink

Top
#88048 - 31/12/05 06:03 PM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Strangely - a consensus doesn't have to be unanimous, merely an overall agreement.

The consensus in the USA was that Bush should be reelected.

I know a few people who disagreed, but a consensus was reached, and, Bush was reelected.

laugh

So, if generally, I see that most people are going to vote for Bush, and, I'm asked who I think will win, I'll say the consensus seems to be that bush will win.

If that's wrong, then I'm misinformed as to what a consensus is. I could look it up I suppose...But the entire thrust of the argument has come down to me saying that the consensus seems to be that a partuclar bumper, as opposed to a president, is best.

:rolleyes:

I guess I should look it up.
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88049 - 31/12/05 06:15 PM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
OK - Looked up consensus.

It means what I thought it did, a generally held belief, etc.

It doesn't have to mean, or even normally mean, a voted issue, it could be a generally held impression, such as, this seems to be better than that, etc.

So - there's no substance to any of the objections, things that were not said were attributed to me, and then reacted to....

Everything I said that didn't fit into the false claims was ignored as if i didn't say it...and then the false clams were defended, and my protests of their falseness are called "Denial", etc. [Freak]

As you are not an idiot, I am going to assume that you know all of this, and have taken advantage of my rising to the bait during my week of Hell.

OK, you got me, I took the bait, and argued over nothing. You have mentioned in the past that you love to do that....and you did it again.

laugh

[Too much XOC]
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88050 - 01/01/06 08:52 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by TJ:
OK - Looked up consensus.

It means what I thought it did, a generally held belief...
Happy new year. laugh

....

Damn you're a talker. None of this bullsh1t is necessary, though.

It doesn't matter what you think the word consensus means.

None of this changes the fact that you have made claims that were unfounded, presented your own opinion as fact or consensus and generally tried to make the advantages of the non-Shrock bumpers sound superficial and insignificant.

That's deceptive and manipulative.

I've always liked Jim's products and have never said anything negative about them. But your "used car salesman" tactics are actually harming your beloved Shrockworks.

The difference between you and every other poster in this thread is that none of them are megalomaniacal enough to present their opinion as the consensus of the entire community. I have respect for all opinions presented. I will not, however, accept one person's (or even several people's) opinion as a consensus in a community of thousands.

What you have attempted to do is just plain dishonest. [ThumbsDown]

Unfortunately, it was probably slick enough for most folks to buy into. [Freak]

Quote:
Originally posted by Adrian:

.....

EDIT...BTW, If anyone was still wondering, my vote is for Shrock. It's the toughest, best looking (IMHO), and hides the winch (a good thing if you ever park in a place where someone might be tempted to take it). The extra $$$ is worth it!

wink
Adrian:

While I've already listed my reasons for buying the TJM, I can certainly respect your opinion that the Shrock is the best one. What I can respect even more is the fact that you have presented your opinion as your opinion instead of trying to "railroad" people into agreeing with some "consensus".

...

P.S.: Hiding the winch is not an advantage. It is no more difficult for a potential thief to notice it or steal it. Loctite is your friend in this case. I'll take a cradle-type with a winch cover anyday, but my suspension wasn't ready for the Calmini.

Top
#88051 - 01/01/06 06:08 PM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Greetings,
"PNUTMNM" hard to believe you registered in October 17, 2000 (with MODERATOR status)and have no idea about TJ. If you are so soured on Shrock from someones post then your reasoning skills need some developement.

"JeffW" Once again you have managed to demonstrate your emotions get in the way of your reasoning. One word YOUTH!

I have posted on numerous occasions and have had some of the more youthful members here post non sequitar replies. When confronted as to the appropriateness of the reply I have been invited to leave the forum (by a MODERATOR no less). I know how to play with the big boys as I'm sure we all do. Take all my trucks... I'll still post to get and give information. Youth will eventually give way to age and reserve.. But it's not a guarantee.

They are just trucks. Get over it. Men are fighting in a war over seas and some argue about goddamn bumpers. Go Figure.

Top
#88052 - 01/01/06 06:30 PM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by chrishaynesusa:
..."JeffW" Once again you have managed to demonstrate your emotions get in the way of your reasoning. One word YOUTH!.....
So saying that there are multiple good options ISN"T reasoning? Blindly following TJ's propaganda is?

Hmmmm. OK. [Freak]

One word: Senility!

laugh

Top
#88053 - 01/01/06 07:26 PM Re: NO more brushguards
Paul H Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
[sarcasm]

My calmini bumper can kick your tjm/shrock bumpers asses!!!!

[/sarcasm]

[Too much XOC]
_________________________
2001 Super Black XE R.I.P. 09/05/06
My Blog

Top
#88054 - 01/01/06 08:56 PM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Jeff,

You say there can be no consensus....and that I'm dishonest for saying I felt there was.

You say I didn't discuss the pluses and minuses, but I did.

You say I said the only option was Shrock, and I didn't, again, before you even joined in, my initial statement was to the effect that it wasn't for every one, and mentioned the hidden winch issue.

In short, you say I did things I didn't do, and then go off on tangents ignoring the actual content of the posts.

Saying over and over that I can't feel that there's a consensus is a bit looney to start with.

[Freak]

Gotta go, we might have a liver!

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88055 - 02/01/06 02:50 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, I just read all this crap and I have to tell you that the only relevant posts in this whole thread are the first three. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but the original poster simply wanted to know what kind of bumper was on the X in the link provided and I think the first three posts covered that quite nicely.

The only problem I see, (and for the record, this is just the way I see and understood it) is that Arterra requested an identification of a bumper with mild implication that he wanted it and TJ chimed in with an unsolicited opinion saying "the best bumper available right now by consensus is" like he was trying to convince him to get a Shrock instead.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you TJ, but you did hijack this thread...

Some of you are obviously biased about the brand of products you own (and rightfully so), but does that matter? NO... Especially when you read someone else's posts and have enough sense about you to see that...

Can you guys do us all a favor: present your opinions (when requested) based on your own experiences without bias or prejudice so we can avoid all this crap...

you've got to remember that you should never put too much stock in internet communication... In the end it's just a bunch of 1's and 0's...

...and btw, I've only been registered for a little over a week and I could have told you TJ doesn't work for Shrock...

Top
#88056 - 02/01/06 09:05 AM Re: NO more brushguards
dezurtrat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1198
Loc: Tucson, AZ
TexasX, you sir are 100% correct! I was just thinking that I hoped that Arterra wasn't scared off! laugh
_________________________
Asking stupid questions is much easier than correcting dumb mistakes.

Top
#88057 - 02/01/06 11:13 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Does anyone have the pre-runner style bumper on their X?. I have seen them on Fronty's, and I like them (personal preference).
Something along the lines of the following was fabbed up by Daystar.

Top
#88058 - 02/01/06 11:17 AM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Most offroad shops can fab up something like that for 400-700 dollars depending on the options and such you want. They just need to have a tube bender.

Top
#88059 - 02/01/06 12:08 PM Re: NO more brushguards
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bikedestroy got his custom made


Top
#88060 - 02/01/06 07:54 PM Re: NO more brushguards
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Texas - you are right.

laugh

And the damn liver was diseased, so we're still waiting.

mad

And yes, we might have scared the poor original poster off.

[Too much XOC]
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

Top
#88061 - 02/01/06 08:37 PM Re: NO more brushguards
dezurtrat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1198
Loc: Tucson, AZ
TJ, truly I'm sorry to hear about the liver. I take those things to heart. She's in my thoughts and I hope all turns out well.
_________________________
Asking stupid questions is much easier than correcting dumb mistakes.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >



shrockworks xterraparts
XOC Decal