New analogy :rolleyes:

lets make this our plane:



and this is our "treadmill"



its well known that even against the current, this plane does take off.

This is where the "it takes flight" crowd ignores the fundamental purpose of a treadmill. They are using runway sized treadmills which is totally cheating. Treadmills are designed to keep the object on it, stationary.

A conveyor belt ..yeah I'll agree. But this is not the conveyor belt thread. This is the treadmill thread. And planes cannot fly on a treadmill. On a treadmill, the plane says at fixed latitude and longitude ... and subsequently .. a fixed altitude becuase it won't frickin take off