OMG

OK

The Xterra on the tread mill is limited as the CF's are arguing...and could not move...the plane is not, and can move.

The engine's thrust does NOT turn the wheels...the wheels, in fact, won't move AT ALL in the given example, unless THE PLANE moves.



So, the can't fly proponents (CF'rs) are NOT saying that the wheels will spin too fast, or that the conveyor will run too fast...but, that the conveyor will not move AT all.



Pay Attention here:

If the conveyor belt rolls AT ALL...it means the plane is moving.

There is NO other way to make the conveyor move...it matches the plane's speed exactly.

Let that sink in.
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OK

Now,

WHAT can make the plane move?

There's only ONE thing that makes the plane move...any guesses?



The thrust from the engines.

Can we all agree that a planes engines can make it move?

I mean...its worked for deacdes so far...that's how they do it every day at Newark Airport at least.



Fine - we have the ability to make a plane move using thrust from the engines...agreed?

(We all ALSO agree that if the plane could power its tires, that THAT would NOT make the plane move...as THAT motion is the same as the XTERRA's motion...)

Now - here's the part where all the CF's trip up on the logic...

The thrust will push the plane forward...and, the conveyor will roll along under it...

Hold that thought...

Here's the moment of truth...

Can a runway that rolls towards you, keep you from ever rolling forward?

NOT matching you...actually rolling towards you...so you would actually be carried backwards if you didn't move forward.

Could you take off then, using the same logic, it should be a lot harder, right?

Not only are you not already going forward, or accelerating from a stand still as normal, you have momentum carrying you backwards.

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Can thrust overcome momentum in the opposite direction?

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I hope so, its how a retro rocket, etc, works.

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Its also how a Jump Jet Lands, etc.

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OK - so we have the principle that thrust from a jet engine can over come actually travelling in the wrong direction.

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We also know that the runway is not going to change that....or the conveyor belt...

As, its the plane's motion relative to the planet, not the the belt, that makes a difference.

The belt is a Red Herring (A diversion for you CF'rs...)

The belt merely acts to support the weight of the plane....

The tires merely roll along under the plane...the landing gear supports the plane, the thrust pushes the plane...and the plane moves forward...

Now, when I say forward...I mean across the planet some distance, whatever, a foot, an inch a meter, whatever it is...

The belt just goes faster...even if it went FASTER than the plane's speed...it would be irrelevent...all THAT would do is increase the TIRE'S rotational speed...the attached landing gear would continue, as would te attached plane, to move across the planets surface, further down the belt's length.

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One last analogy:

I kneel down next to my tread mill as it rolls along...I have a toy xterra...I put it on the tread mill...and hold it there, with its wheels spinning on the belt...I'm using one finger to hold on the back of the little X, to keep it in one spot on the belt.

Got that...?

One finger on the back of the X, holding it in position against the rolling tread mill belt...

OK...here' where I blow your CF mind...

Ready?

OK - I push my finger against the X a bit more....it can now MOVE AGAINST THE DIRECTION OF THE ROLLING BELT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is that POSSIBLE you ask?

OK - its because the thrust from my finger is what's moving the little X...NOT THE LITTLE X'S TIRES.
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Instead of a little X, I grab a toy RC plane, and do the same thing...

I use a finger to hold the plane against the on rushing belt, exactly as I did the little X...

The belt rushes along under the plane's tires...and, IT STAYS IN ONE SPOT!!!!!!!!

How is that POSSIBLE you ask?

OK - its because the thrust from my finger is what's moving the little plane...NOT THE LITTLE Plane's TIRES.



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OK -

NOW, I still have the little plane on the tread mill, miraculously able to maintain its position through the magic of rolling tires and thrust from my finger.

I take the remote, and start the engine of the RC plane...the propeller spins, and pulls the plane forward, off of my finger and AWAY...

How is this POSSIBLE, you ask?

OK - its because the thrust from the propeller is what's moving the little plane...NOT THE LITTLE plane's TIRES.



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So my finger can be the thrust...

There isn't a tread mill made that I could not roll my little X forward on by merely applying an external force to the X...

The tread mill CAN'T roll fast enough to keep me from doing it either...at the same speed, or at double the speed of my finger...the little X's tires will just spin faster..

...but, my FINGER will push the little X against the spinning belt.

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As a jet engine can provide the same external force to the plane...

...perhaps even MORE force than my finger...

...the real plane will be pushed forward on the INITIALLY NOT spinning belt..MAKING it spin...

...but, just like my finger just keeps pushing the little X further along the tread mill belt...

....he real plane will ALSO be pushed IN THE SAME WAY...along the giant belt.

As the conveyor belt DOES NOT have its OWN ATMOSPHERE...the air that the plane is moving forward through, is the SAME air it would NORMALLY move forward through.

So - as the thrust independently pushes the plane like a giant finger, along the belt...through the air...eventually, the air rushing OVER THE WING, creates enough pressure differential to create lift.

(A wing does not lift the plane, or a bird, etc...by pushing air down...it creates lift by basically making the air on top of the wing take a longer path...which makes it less dense than the air below the wing...so it essentially PULLS the WING UP, rather than pushing the WIND DOWN)

I did see at least one reference to the above misconception, referred to as one reason WHY the conveyor belt would prevent air flow from creating lift...so, of course, that's not going to make any difference...because its not how a wing works, etc.

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sigh.

I HOPE some of this sinks in.