Quote:
Originally posted by socalpunx:
You are then saying that you have no relationship with the ground because if my winch is pulling you up regardless if your traction than you are basically saying that I could be winching you up the hill even if your truck was suspended or hanging off the side of a cliff. You are negating the relationship your truck has with the surface completely.
That's PRECISELY the point! We already know that the my truck's forward movement through its tires is negated by the ground's backward movement, so the net is ZERO. The only way for my truck to move FORWARD (in spite of whatever the ground is doing) is to be provided a means of forward propulsion that is not related to the tires or to the ground.

In your treadmill example, you're basically saying that if I place my treadmill on the shoulder of the freeway, and I stick a winch cable to my bike then toss it out so it catches a passing truck, I'd be able to stop that truck dead in its tracks because the treadmill would prevent my bike from leaving the treadmill. That's absurd! I'm not GLUED or BOLTED to the treadmill surface, I'm just traveling on top of it!
_________________________
4x4 in uppercase is $X$!!!
1997 R50: VG33E/RE4R01A/TX10/3.7/R200A/ARB/4.636/H233B/ARB/4.636/321150R15