i may not be able to get gutters without permission mad , but everybody around me can landscape, put trees in, and put up flags without home owners permission. also, wife and i no have kids, but the five houses around us there are about 16 [Uh Oh !] . they all play in the street and everybody's yard (even mine mad ). i'd rather shoot a rattlesnake rather than one of the brats get bit (if brat gets bit in my yard, i'm responsible, I'M SUED). however.....if i clip a brat, no more trespassing....... [Laughing]