Hi guys,

I was going away on a business trip when my gf complained about the breaks and high engine temp in her 2003 Subaru. The car has 100K on it, so we decided to bring it to the 90K service that was overdue. Before taking off I inspected the car myself and found the following:

- Brakes had to be replaced (pads + rotors).
- Something was not right with one of the axles. Sounded like a problem with a CV joint.

The sealership called one day later with an estimate of $5,700. In addition to the parts outlined above, they wanted to replace the head gasket and pressure test the head because the car "was leaking coolant." Coolant my ass -- the engine bay is dry! I was able to increase the temp of the engine by driving it around the block. No smell. No fluids of any kind seen in the engine bay. The temp went from low to normal. Then it went to high within a second or two, then back to normal within a short period of time (3-10 seconds max). In other words, it sounded like an issue with a thermostat. As somebody who has had a couple of blown gaskets, I know how cars smell and behave when the engine does not have coolant.

Of course all of this crap at the stealership had to happen when I was on an important business trip. When I called the mechanic who completed the work, I stated that we did not want to do any additional work on the car. My gf received a bill earlier this morning. $900 for the 90K service! Again, I was not there to argue with the guys. Apparently, they threatened her and would not let her go until she paid. When she asked about the hourly rate the dealership said that there was no rate as things "varied" depending on the amount of work. The list of replaced parts include the fluids, the wipers, some gaskets (not the head gasket) and that is it. $130 in parts. The rest is "labor."

Now the multi-million dollar question -- what can be done to dispute the charges and to check out the theory about a blown gasket? I know that the car is not leaking crap because the level of the coolant is the same. My plan is to get a new thermostat and see if it changes things around.

Any ideas are welcome. BTW, do not go to a Subaru stealership in Redwood City, CA. When we lived on the East Coast, we visited a mom-and-pop place that never ripped anybody off. My gf went there by herself without me having to check the car or look through all the claims that the mechanics have made. Apparently things are different when you hit the "pros."

Thanks!

$130 in parts...that means they charged $770 in labor. At $100/hr (what my repair shop charges), they spent over 7 hours on the car That's a helluva long time to replace the fluids and swap in new wipers! At a very minimum, request an hour-by-hour breakdown of the labor.

Nothing you can do if your girlfriend authorized the repairs. If she didn't authorize the repairs she should have taken up the fight when she came to get the vehicle. Probably too late to do anything about it now. I guess if you think you have a case you could take them to court.

You're most likely screwed.

My '93 Saturn developed a serious rattle around 70,000 miles and I took it to the dealership. While using the phone to tell work I'd be later than anticipated, the service advisor walked up and stood waiting to talk with me. Their receptionist was sitting right there since this was before cell phones so I was using her phone.

Apparently assuming I was too involved with my conversation to listen to her too, the service advisor said very softly to the receptionist, "I hate it since they put us on commission."

The proverbial red flag shot to the top of the pole and snapped smartly in the breeze. I got off the phone and she tried to convince me the problem was the timing chain and if I didn't "invest" $500 replacing it, I risked $2500 of engine damage "when" it broke.

This was puzzling since the timing chain was a non-replacement (lifetime) item on the SL2. Turned out it could fail prematurely on that vehicle; I found out through a mechanic friend that Saturn had issued a TSB addressing possible premature timing chain failure because of a production line change Saturn made to the oil circulation ports on some vehicles, including mine!

Armed with that, I fought the dealer and Saturn corporate until the bastards agreed to replace it free. Got my car back and...it still rattled. After all that, it turned out to be a prematurely deceased catalytic converter.

I've known all of two dealer service advisors with integrity in the 25+ years I've owned vehicles.

I've never heard of "variable" labor rates.

The only dealers I've ever been to have prominently displayed the labor rate they charge.

Mechanics do this on occasion to women. I try to handle all automotive things so my wife doesn't have to deal with this problem, but I travel for work several times a year and it's only a matter of time until the car breaks down when I'm on the other side of the country. If my wife ever gets threatened like your gf I'll be pissed beyond belief, and they'll know it.

In any event, if I were you I'd ask for an itemized breakdown if one is available. Then I'd talk to the manager and explain your side of things (calmly and respectfully), and explain that you don't believe the charges are reasonable. I'd also mention the way your gf was treated. Basically try to negotiate a more reasonable bill. You'll likely strike out on all counts, but it may make you feel better.

Also, once all is said and done, report them to the BBB and any state consumer fraud agency you can find. Most state attorney general's offices have consumer fraud units, for example, and some are quite aggressive. If nothing else you can create a headache for them.

Threatened her and wouldn't let her leave? Next time, have her call 411 and request the local police department's non-emergency number. Call and ask for an officer to respond. He or she will get the mechanic squared away in a hurry.

Just like XOC to not answer your question.. Ok for a blown head gasket check to see if you oil has coolant in it. Then check to see if your coolant has oil in it. You may need to drain both fluids to do this but at the end of it you should know whether or not you have a blown gasket.

Was a question ever asked if a question mark was never used?

Was he on a treadmill while asking?

Part of the question *was* answered.

As far as the head gasket - it might have gotten a quicker answer if it hadn't been posted in the clubhouse.

Yup.
You can also pull the oil dipstick and try to 'light' the oil on the end with a lighter. Water = sizzle; scorch = oil.

Thank you! I will do the testing today to see what is going on. Also, I'll request the break down of work by hour to see why it took so long to change the damn fluids.

Sorry, the question mark should have ended the sentence

neat trick!

Call "The BAR" .

I owned a Ford Escort years ago. You learn to check it that way everytime you check the oil.

Update: They were not even smart to come up with a good lie.

Replacing a thermostat is a part of the 90K service. Guess what happened after a new unit has been installed? For some reason the temperature no longer rises. No rapid jumps from "normal" to "high" and then back to "normal." Brilliant.

I am glad I pulled the car out of their freaking garage.