Originally posted by NY Madman:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
It isn't limited to non-US citizens. It can be used against anyone. They don't have to reveal who they have taken into custody.
The Patriot Act II is even worse. Your citizenship can be taken away. The Constitution says that American's citizenship cannot be taken, unless they *voluntarily* relinquish it. This part of the Patriot Act flies in the very face of our most important document.
I'm no huge fan of the Patriot Act. I do agree that the Patriot II is too much. It won't pass. It has to be rewritten.
I believe the original Patriot Act has no provisions for removing citizenship. The detainment provisions relate to non citizens. The other stuff you are talking about is Patiot II.
Regarding citizens being held indefinitely... Jose Padilla is the only one I know of. They have the right to hold him since the President declared him an "enemy combatant" and he was transferred to military custody. I believe the government has the right to do this to anyone who threatens US interests especially since he trained in a foreign country (Afghanistan).
You have to admit, this terrorist stuff is charting new terrority regarding the law.
As the liberals love to say "The Constitution is a living, breathing document". I don't believe this is true but... back at ya.....Well, I don't disagree with you that non-citizens shouldn't have the same rights. And while, I don't think the Patriot Act will be abused, it very easily *could* be.
For argument's sake, suppose someone just decided to start saying they thought you were a sympathizer. Now, say that person has some sway with people in the FBI or CIA or whatever. Next thing you know, you're being investigated (and not even know it). Then, say you were talking to someone on the phone, and said to them, "yeah, I wish Clinton were shot dead" or "yeah, I wouldn't be disappointed if Bush got nailed." While this is something you surely wouldn't say in public and not say in seriousness, it's taken as otherwise. Next thing you know, they start asking you questions. How do you defend yourself?
Obviously, this is an extreme example. But it's possible, however remote.
If the constitution *isn't* a living document, why did we bother with establishing the judiciary? Their job is to interpret it, not set law.
(And yeah, it's II that has the citizenship issue...I don't see how it could possibly pass as is)
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