I recently replaced my head unit and speakers. New wiring and everything. The place that I took my X to did a horrible job.

Whenever I accelerate there is a horrible whining noise. It is there at idle too..I just gets higher pitched with acceleration.

So damn annoying! The mechanic proceeds to add noise filters and they do nothing. I told him fix your wiring job. That is the problem.

I asked around and was told that cables touching or cables bunched together can lead to this. Does anyone know the solution? Thanks

Do you have amplifier(s) installed? Or is it just a head unit and speakers?
John

I have a multi channel AMP hooked up also. If anyone has any ideas at all please reply. It is very very very annoying.

BTW, I went there today again and they told me they looked through the wiring and they said it was all perfect but something seems not right. The istaller temp. added an equilizer and the engine noise went away but this isnt going to the source of the problem I assume. He wanted me to pay more money to put an equilizer in. I don't know who to trust. How do I know if they even checked? They refused to let me watch them work on my X. I already reported them to the BBB for using pressuring tactics as not doing the install correctly. They told me there had been other reports against them...so I was not the first.

[Engine Whine]

Most engine noise is related to one of three things: Power/ground cabling and connections, RCA cabling and placement, or vehicle charging system problems.

You should be using the correct-sized power wire for the current demands of the equipment you're using. We recommend at least 8-gauge power and ground cable to power each amplifier you use, although we'll recommend running 4-gauge if you have more then two units due to the dynamic power requirements some amplifiers have. Plus, with 4-gauge, you'll have the opportunity to add more amps later without having to re-run power cable. Your ground cable should be less than 18" long, the same exact size as the power cable, bolted directly to a solid, thick steel part of the chassis which is scraped clean of any paint or primer for best possible grounding. Your positive power cable should be attached directly to the vehicle's battery using a high-quality battery post adapter, and must be fused within 18" of the battery itself. To avoid unnecessary noise, you should also add an additional ground cable, at least the same gauge as the power cable, to the negative (-) side of the battery and bolt it directly to the frame within 12" to 18" (this gives the vehicle a better grounding plane). Inside the car, the head unit of the vehicle must NEVER be grounded to the factory wiring - always ground your head unit to the same place your amps and other audio components are grounded. It's best to use a distribution block for this.

Your RCA's need to be run separately and away from any power cabling - like the power cable for the amplifier or any factory wiring harnesses. You shouldn't be running your remote turn-on wire with the RCA's; you should run your remote turn-on with an additional ground wire, so that you can ground your head unit to the exact same place your amplifier is grounded, and all power cables should be run down the opposite side of the vehicle from your RCA's. Your RCA's should be a high-quality type like our Connecting Punch Gamma-geometry or twisted-pair cables, and you need to make sure they're not pinched or there's not a screw run through them accidentally.

The car's alternator or battery may also have a problem. If you've loaded down the alternator for too long, it might be starting to fail, and will cause unwanted noise through the audio system. Additionally, a failing battery can pass noise through to your system too, but this is less common. To be absolutely sure, we suggest taking your vehicle to the dealer or an auto parts store that can load-test your battery and alternator - they can determine if you're having major problems. If you're simply not getting enough power to your system anyway, it would be a good idea to upgrade your alternator to a higher-output model for best performance.

[Gain setting]

Correctly setting the Gain controls on your amplifier is easy if you have some signal test discs and an oscilloscope! But, if you don't happen to have those available, then you may have to do some common-sense guesswork to "dial-in" your amplifier.

The Gain control is NOT a volume control! The gain adjustment (or control) is a level-matching control that adjusts the amplifier to work with the electronic piece(s) used before the amplifier. This piece before the amplifier could be the head unit, an EQ, or a crossover, and you set the gain control on the amplifier to match that unit's pre-amp voltage level. You can find out the unit's preamp output level in the owner's manual for that unit, as most manufacturers know you need this information in order to set up your system.

Essentially, by dialing-in the gain control, you're telling the amp how much signal you're putting into it so the amplifier will reproduce the signal accurately. If you have the gain set too high, the amp will make full power right away, and you'll have problems with distortion and "clipping". If the gain is set too low, the amp may still make full power, but it might not sound as loud as it should, and you'll think you aren't getting much volume. Our amplifiers are capable of accepting a signal input level from 150 millivolts to 4 volts on the Bolt series amps and 150 millivolts to 5 volts on the Stike and Storm series amps. You change the sensitivity by adjusting the gain control clockwise (more sensitive for low-power decks like 1-Volt units) or counter-clockwise (less sensitive for high-powered decks like 4-Volt units).

Since we do not put "indicators" or markings on the side of the amp to indicate gain levels for specific input voltages, this is where you will have to do a little "educated guessing" to set the controls up correctly. An oscilloscope's signal-measuring capabilities would come in handy right about now, as you could read the output levels of the amplifier while playing test tones (like a 1KHz tone) to determine at what point your amplifier "clips", and that's where you stop turning up the gain control.

But, if you don't have any of this cool stuff, then you'll have to assume the gain control is like a progressive-gain dial that becomes more sensitive as you turn it up (clockwise). We usually tell people that if they have a 4-Volt head unit, turn the gain all the way down (counter-clockwise); if they have a 2-Volt head unit, turn the gain 1/3 of the way up (clockwise); if they have a 1-Volt head unit, turn the gain 2/3 of the way up; and for 500mV decks, turn the gain 3/4 of the way up. While these suggestions are buy no means 100% accurate, they will work fine most of the time. When in doubt, have a professional double-check your work.

If you're unsure of the best way to set up the gains or bass controls on your amplifier, we recommend you seek the assistance and advice of your local dealer. They have the knowledge and equipment necessary to be able to set your gear up right!

Contrary to popular belief, those gain (input sensitivity) adjustments are not "volume" controls! The reason those adjustments are there is to allow compatibility with different types of equipment.

What they actually do is set the amount of input voltage required to drive the amplifier to full power. Let's say we have an amplifier that is capable of producing 50 watts. If those input adjustments were made correctly, the amplifier would produce 50 watts with the source unit volume at or near its maximum. If the input sensitivity is increased, the amplifier may make 50 watts at a much lower position on the source unit volume control. Then, if the volume on the source unit is increased, the amplifier begins to "clip" and produce distortion because it cannot produce any more than 50 watts. By increasing the sensitivity of the amplifier you also increase the chances for noise in the system.

Okay, as far as your post...there is no ground on the other terminal of my optima battery. I can only see the power cable going to the + red terminal but there is nothing else on the battery.

I found another site with some of the same information you had: http://www.mmxpress.com/technical/noise.htm

The thing is...I am preety much screwed because this business is refusing to do any more work and they are saying that all the engine noise is due to the head unit. This does not seem right though since I have two head units in my two din dash and when I am just running the other head unit for cd/dvd etc I still get engine noise which leads me to believe that it may be something else (but not sure since the two head units are connected in the back). THe installer told me that he tried another amp and there was still engine noise using a totally different amp.

coupled with the engine noise there is also a hiss

my installer said the same type of crap. I ended up teaching myself all about car electronics and rewired it myself. I'd first check the ground, make sure its very very short, and good thick cable. And make sure that it is attached to bare metal. If they used the body or a seat bolt or something, go ahead and sand down the metal where it attaches.

Then make sure all the wires are seperated. My installer had the power on the opposite side, but ran all the other wires together. If the wires do ahve to be run together, cross them perpindicular, not parallel.

If you want pics or any other info, let me know.

when you say run together...do you mean the wires following the same paths under the carpeting ...? when looking at the wiring all the wires are clumped together...

I am sure there are some problems.....I have already paid 4 thousand dollars for the shit and all the labor! Now I have to pay another 100 or so for people to look at it? what a joke!

The main problem here is that I don't know if the head unit is causing the whine. Is this usually the case? It seems easy for the installer to blame it on this since I brought the head units to him and I did not purchase them from him.

Is it possible to determine whether the head unit is causing it..because If so I can return it. In most car audio cases is it rare for a head unit or some other component to cause the engine noise?

right now I have a hifonics amp placed against the back seats in the trunk, mbquart speakers, bazooka tube, plye cd/dvd/mp3 unit din #1, lanzar 6.4" motorized screen with tv/am/fm (the other part of this unit is under the passanger seat) and 4 other screens in the cabin.

as for the pics you said you have...well they probably wouldnt do me good i guess..since I know nothing about mobile audio. but if you want pictures of how the wiring looks in the x or how the wires are running together or ...battery hook ups etc I will grab some and maybe someone can find the error?

thanks.

I'd either ask for my money back or

Now check the ground first. Then, you'll be spending some time seperating the wires. Depending on how they started, you may change the running path, but the basic idea still stands.

1) Run the power cable [should be atleast 10 gauge, preferably 4 or 8 gauge and with a good solid conector on the battery and fused within 18"] on the passenger side along the door sill. Very easy to do this one, all the bottom panels remove with screws.

2) Run the rca cables under the passenger seat, as far towards the center as you can, unless you want to remove the seat. Again, same basic idea, remove the door sills and lift up the carpet. Working uder the carpet where the seats are is a pain, but it can be done.

3) Run the remote lead and head unit ground if neccessary, under the drivers seat, again as close to the center as you can.

4) Run the speaker wires under the drivers door sill. This will depend on how they wired them. I assume that they ran wires from the amp to behind the head unit where they connect to the origianl wiring. I'd personally replace those wires, as it sounds like you have good taste in audio componets. The rear are very easy, just run a new wire, 12 or 16 gauge wire, from the amp to under the carpet to the rear speaker. That'll help. The fronts are a whole lot harder to replace, but if you have the patience, it can be done.

Now when you get the wires to the rear seats, run the center wires under the rear seat cushions and through the holes where the seat back is connected. Small hands are a plus here. The outside wires can be run the same way but towards the outside or can be run under the plastic finishing along the door frame. I'd avoid that, as those panels break and don't go back together very easily.

Keep all of the wires as short as possible, and don't keep the slack of the wires together.

I bought a lot of my connectors and such from a guy on ebay, but he has a website that has the same deals. www.darvex.com

Those noise filters are a joke and soemthing stereo shops try to push off on you to cover up their fuck ups. Even if they do reduce the whine, they are also reducing your signal and destroying your sound output. As others have said, you probably either have a grounding problem or your power and signal lines are running side by side. Or, your power line to your amplifier is too small. If you run 8 guage or larger power and grounds (ground needs to be the same guage or larger, and short!) and you keep the signal cables away from them you shouldn't have any noise at all. You need to keep the signal cables away form other power sources too as much as possible. Make sure none of your other equipment power is tapped into your amplifier line either. Also make sure your wiring is high quality and well shielded and your ring terminals are good quality (read: not Home Depot issue crap!).

FWIW, I ran my 4 guage power line down the passenger side door sill area and then into a distribution block that seperated it into two 8 guage lines to go to my amplifiers. i used 4 guage ground lines. I ran my signal cables down the middle of the truck along the transmission tunnel. It's much easier to keep them away from other electrical stuff if you go that way; although it's more work to install them. I did have to cross over electrical lines a couple times, but if you keep it to a minimum and the cable doesn't "follow" the line, you'll be OK. There is absolutely no whine in my system.

Anyway, I would tell the stereo shop that you are very disappointed in their work and tell them that you will not accept noise filters as cover ups for their mistakes. Get a refund on the wiring and use the money to buy good wiring and do it yourself or take it to another shop. That's B.S. :rolleyes:

Your experience is exactly the reason I won't let car audio shops do my installations. BTDT and it sucks!

Good luck!

MY LETTER TO THE BBB: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

This company owner,Mr. Bad English, sold me very defective equipment. I went to xxxxwedont knowenglish company and asked them if they could install 4 monitors and two head units in my vehicle (which I had purchased elsewhere and brought with me). They agreed to install it for $650 and also said that they could upgrade my speakers and add an amplifier and a bazooka tube. I told them that this would be okay. Mr. badenglish proceeded to tell me various lies. He told me that the amplifier I was buying was of higher wattage than it really was. He told me he would put the top of the line MB Quart speakers in my car (ended up being the lowest quality speakers MB quart offers and out of the 6 speakers they installed ONLY ONE yes ONE had sound coming out of it). I told him I would like a 10" bazooka tube and he put an 8" in my SUV. All the prices were more than double the retail value of the items (as I verified by checking online). Mr. BadEnglish promised the installation to be completed in 2 days and the installation took 5.

When I went to go pick up my vehicle I was in shock. Not only was there a whining engine noise coming out of the one speaker that did work the installation was so haphazard a 3 year old could have done a better job. The TV component of the head unit did not even work even after the told me that buying a $70 antenna from them (which I did) would improve the reception. I cannot get one station clearly. The radio also was not getting much reception. MAJOR ERRORS IN installation!!!!! I paid them over $2000 for the destruction of my vehicle.

There was also damage to my interior/exterior including: VERY VISIBLE RED PEN marking on the outside of my expensive seats marking where the installer was supposed to cut out but apparently was not right on. The monitors I asked them to install on the roof are loose and make very loud noise when driving. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PIECE THEY INSTALLED WAS UNEVEN (even after making it very clear before the installation that I wanted everything to be very even since I am paying so much). The screws they put in the amplifier were all crooked and an eye sore since the amp was installed on the back seats and the screws are all crooked and sticking out. I tell the installer this the day I go pickup my car and he proceeds to tell me 'ohh , don't worry about it..who cares.' This is when I began to get steaming mad. I asked him point blank about some other damage including scratches all over the silver metal of the amplifier in clear view. He proceeds to say 'I am picky' and 'no one can see that anyways!' And for the same reason they probably don't see many customers.

I then proceed to ask him over and over about the high pitch noise coming from the speakers when accelerating. He proceeds to tell me he installed 2 noise filters (one in the engine and one under the front passanger seat to get rid of it) WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. BadEnglish began to actually ignore me and pretend I was not even there and proceed to talk to customers who had walked into his store to purchase cell phones. After about 45 minutes he comes back over and asks for payment. I tell him that I will not pay unless they fix not only the installation but all the damages they caused to my car. He proceeds to tell me 'don't worry about it! go home and enjoy your memorial day weekend.' Did he ever realize for one second that having my car literally in pieces would have some impact on my weekend?

I paid thinking that they would fix the problems and also because I needed my car back. They billed me $45 extra for no reason (even with the inflated 50% increase in the prices for the products in the first place!) I dropped in saturday before my girlfriend and I left to talk with the installer and he proceeds to tell me there is nothing else he can do. He said that to fix my problems I would need to spend more money on equilizers and almost a thousand more dollars on equipment. HAHAHAHA.

Take it back and have them remedy it.
You're the customer, you're always right. If they disagree, get a lawyer.

They said there is no solution and they have tried evertyhing (which I dont think is much).

I could take them to small claims court but I wouldnt get any money back for 6 months. My other option would be to put a hold on the charge with mastercard but mastercard probably won't allow it in this case because the business did 'try' to remedy the problem. I assume when they found out they would have to rewire everything the right way with right wires it just wasnt worth their time.

Basically I got screwed (NOTE: my amp apparently was not screwed...at least correctly).

I would at least try to dispute the charge with your credit card company. They will probably allow you to begin the process of disputing the charge which will force Mr. Bad English to reply and explain if he wants to get paid. Most credit card companies have pretty liberal dispute policies. If he fails to respond in the required time--he doesn't get paid. If he responds, at least that will possibly give you time to take it somewhere else to have it looked at and find out what the problem is. You're probably going to have to resort to going somewhere else to get it fixed--the shop you have been dealing with sounds completely incompetent. They obviously are not going to fix your problem. I don't know much about stereo systems but this sounds like a relatively common problem and any competent business should be able to fix it. I remember hearing friends' systems back in high school that had this problem and they put the system in themselves, I've not heard of anyone having this problem after a supposed expert installed the system. I wouldn't trust Mr. Bad English to give you the straight story. It sure is easy to blame a part he didn't sell you rather than his incompetence. My suggestion is call Mastercard today. Then you'll probably have to get it fixed at a different shop--ask around for referrals. Another idea, call a few shops in your area and ask how much they think it might cost to fix after explaining the problem. And for God's sake--stay away from Mr. Bad English, don't let him touch your X again. It will only cost you more money and headaches.

Good luck.

This has already been mentioned in earlier posts, but whenever I have had the engine rev noise come through the speakers it has always been a ground problem. May take a while to find, but it soounds to me like somewhere you have a bad ground. Just my .02 cents

I found out a lot of important stuff today. The cables are 16 guage. Are 16 guage standard. The RCA cables are actually crossing the power cables!!! I am going to get pics later tonight and post them here. I am really pissed.

I would definately upgrade the power cables to at least 8 gauge. I recommend 4 to a distribution block to 8 if you have 2 amps. Make sure you run RCA wires seperatly from the power wires. I would even run my speaker wires down awat from both, just to reduce interference. Keep at it, clean systems are hard to nail down. Definately a ground problem.
John

Well, if you're going to do it yourself, follow my directions I gave earlier. But atleast try and get your money back for the amp install, as new wires will cost you a bit. A 4 gauge wiring "kit" will cost you probally $70-90. That will include most everything of what you need. But personally, I'd buy each piece individually so you get what you want.

Plus, of you teach yourself about your car stereo, you'll learn how to adjust it and remove it if neccessay, and you'll feel good that you installed part of it.

RED: Power cable
BLUE: Speaker cable
Gold: RCA Cable

I was told today that there should be 18" between the two (RCA and POWER)...I look under the back seat and to my suprise they are f-in crossing.

Yea, I am trying to get my money back dude. But it takes almost 6 weeks for mastercard to make a decision. Small claims court takes 6 months.

Your post about pictures reminds me....make sure you take pictures or video everything you think might possibly be wrong and the red pen marks you mentioned and any other damage before you fix/change anything. Also, if you have it fixed at another shop make sure you get the tech. to note the problems relating to the previous install on your receipt. You may need proof of these things later to get your money back.

Good luck.

Some notes and questions about your picture:

It is almost impossible not to cross a power wire of some sort and a speaker or RCA cable somewhere in your truck. Crossing lines like that shouldn't cause a problem anyway as long as your wires are shielded.

What I'm wondering is what the red wires are? The gold and blue are obviosly speaker lines and the blue appears to be good quality wire. But what are the red wires for? I sure hope those aren't power supply wires!

What really, really disturbs me is the lack of thought and pure carelessness that is obvious here. It appears that this shop made no effort to follow any form and pretty much just tossed the wires in. And the strapping tape used to hold them in place is just plain old pathetic. So, my thought is that if they are careless enough to run that wire that way in that spot, what does the rest of it look like? I can just imagine that wire rubbing there between the seat bottom and the sharp edge of the fuel sending unit cover...yikes!!!

You might get lucky and this might work. I had the same type of engine whine bleeding over my stock stereo. I had just wired up some auxilarry lights about a week prior to this happening. My first thought was I botched up the wiring job and was getting bleedover from that. After cursing at the stereo for a day or 2, I decided to check my wiring for the lights..everything seemed OK. Then for some reason, I pushed down on all the ignition wires going to my distributor cap...who would have guessed one of the wires wasn't pushed on all the way. With that in place the whine went away. Take a look at yours....you might get lucky!!!

Good luck!!!!

Rich

You won't believe what I found under the seat today. This asshole was too fu-kin lazy to even remove cut pieces of cable etc and there was a bunch stuffed under the seat. Not only this but there was this odd shaped tool actually LEFT UNDER MY SEAT. Those little tools the give you when you buy a desk from office depot or something. He probably did the entire with that and a roll of tape. hahahaha what a friggin joke!

You think this is bad? Imagine trying to talk with these people. The owners proceeds to tell me the person who is working there has been doing install for years but according to other shops they NEVER EVER run power lines with other cables. That is the number one rule.

I call the place that did this horrible mess and told them about this rca power cable thing. The owner says "what? I don't know what you are talking about. Call us in the morning."...yea more of the run around. I am so angry that people can get away with this shit and what angers me even more is that unsuspecting people probably go in there thinking everything is legit...I wish I could warn every person that steps foot into that store.

As far as the BBB report...hers is what I could find online:

"Based on our standards, we rate this company as having an unsatisfactory business record. An unsatisfactory rating is given when a pattern in the company's customer complaints causes us concern, when the company does not respond to complaints, or when it will not substantiate its advertising claims. Our complaint history for this company shows that the business did not respond to the customer complaints brought to its attention by the Bureau. A Better Business Bureau report is based on our file information and experience with an individual company over the past three years."

I asked other people and they said I was stupid for paying for the car in the first place...knowing that there was a wining sound. Not being familiar with car stereo install I assumed it was a quick fix and they promised they would fix it when I returned the car after the weekend. Which they did not.

Another funny thing is, when I went back I told the guy to put the screw in the amp straight. Instead of simply doing it right THIS TIME *AGAIN* the person proceeds to pull the amp flush with the metal top of the screw. Thus, the screw is still crooked!!! It is just that they made the metal flush to the screws head! HAHAHAHAHA. What incompetent bastards.

As far as the red pen marks...I told them to clean it up. I show back up and the guy pretends he took it to a professional cleaner or something. "Look, I fixed it all up"...to my dismay all they did was dab water on it and make the line spread (by diluting the ink of course). Morons.