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#330312 - 26/12/07 07:18 AM We lost another trail
MadManX Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 184
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Associated Press
Dec. 25, 2007 10:39 AM

TUCSON - Off-road vehicles will be banned on part of a southwestern Arizona national monument early in 2008 because of extensive environmental damage caused by reckless riders, federal officials say.

Bureau of Land Management staffers are working on a closure, likely in January, for the northern third of the Sonoran Desert National Monument, said program field manager Kevin Harper.

Harper and others said riders who have ignored postings and other restrictions, taking their three- or four-wheelers and dirt bikes off designated roads, have carved new trails and mangled often-fragile vegetation. In doing so, they've created ugly, landscape-scarring ruts and other problems for the desert ecology.

Damage from off-roading is a phenomenon being seen increasingly on public lands across the West as more people take up such recreational use, land use managers, conservationists and others say.

"The monument is really a canary in a coal mine, an indication of everything going on with off-road vehicles," said Jim Baca, New Mexico's natural resource trustee and a former national director of the Bureau of Land Management in President Clinton's first term. "They're causing incredible damage."

In describing the harm such vehicles can cause, Baca said, "Think of a new back yard. It's very destructive to the topsoil, it's very conducive to destruction... There are enough irresponsible riders that I do believe it should be banned."

A recently conducted survey of nearly 300 BLM and Forest Service rangers polled in Arizona, southern California, New Mexico, Nevada and Utah bears that sentiment out.

Among the results of the 23 percent who answered the mailed survey - 91 percent of those responding said off-road vehicles present a significant law enforcement problem, 53 percent said off-road vehicle problems in their jurisdictions are out of control, and 65 percent believe penalties for violators aren't sufficient.

The intent of a two- to three-year closure is to restore ripped-up soils, improve the habitat, educate the general community and users in particular, and "have people be more responsible as far as using public lands," Harper said.

"We're actually seeing a pretty good reaction from environmental groups and user groups," he said. "They understand it's an important resource in the BLM and it has to be managed differently."

Don Hood, president of the Arizona Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition, said that as with any form of recreational activity, a minority of off-road enthusiasts don't obey rules.

He criticized the BLM of inadequately posting signs, issuing maps for off-road users and educating people where they can and can't go, but acknowledged that, similar to boating on a lake, some people are going to act irresponsibly.

If more active management efforts don't work, he said officials need to move on to the next step. But, he added, "Closure is like going right to the finish without ever running the race."

On the other hand, Daniel Patterson, southwest director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, contends that now is the time for BLM to get off-road vehicles off the monument.

He said the BLM'S decision to close only a third of the monument represents a step backward from what an advisory committee - including Harper - recommended to the monument's managers at a meeting in March.

And figures that PEER obtained from the BLM show that off-roading now places the predominant demand on law enforcement time in the West.

From 2004 through June, there were more than 2,300 incidents of illegal off-roading and more than 6,600 off-road violations for crimes including reckless driving and hit-and-run in Arizona, California, Utah, Nevada and New Mexico, and twice the number of incidents for driving under the influence involving off-road vehicles as automobiles.

The area facing closure is south of Goodyear, west of Maricopa and east of Gila Bend, said monument manager Karen Kelleher.

She said there has been a major increase in motorized vehicle use since 2004-2005, when the town of Maricopa in particular started growing.

Harper said such increased use is seen on public lands across the country in the wake of communities whose populations have mushroomed from 15,000 or 30,000 to 100,000. "We're trying to more effectively manage that," he said.

When then-Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt announced the creation of the sprawling Sonoran Desert National Monument southwest of Phoenix in January 2001, a few days before Clinton left office, a proclamation said visitors could not drive off the dirt roads slicing through its 486,000 acres, or 759 square miles.

Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't pay attention.

Kelleher said the most extensive travel and the most significant damage on the monument is north of Maricopa County Highway 238, with creosote and bursage sustaining the most damage.

"The biggest thing it does is it breaks through the surface of the soil, what we call desert pavement, kind of the rock formation you find in the soil," she said. "It destabilizes and makes the soil more vulnerable to wind and rain erosion."

She said there's one real positive.

"What we have learned is that we can very successfully rehab these areas," she said. "We dig out the ruts and rake them and then put in dead vegetation in the ground like it's a plant, trying to mask the area so that vehicle use into the area won't occur."

PEER's Patterson said off-roaders who haven't respected the monument have displayed reckless and wild behavior.

This spring, the Arizona Senate came up short in a vote to require owners of off-road vehicles to pay for a new annual sticker. It would have provided money to develop trails and other access routes, grants for local enforcement of off-road vehicle laws, to mitigate damage caused by the vehicles and to create educational material, maps and signs.

The Arizona Game and Fish Department's figures show there were more than 230,000 registered or titled all-terrain vehicles in the state as of July 2006, up from 51,000 in December 1998.
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#330313 - 26/12/07 08:32 AM Re: We lost another trail
dezurtrat Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 1198
Loc: Tucson, AZ
QUOTE: "Don Hood, president of the Arizona Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition, said that as with any form of recreational activity, a minority of off-road enthusiasts don't obey rules."

This is true of course and we need to get these people off the trails but any of you here in Tucson also know of the UNREASONABLE push by environmental groups to end most if not all off roading!
_________________________
Asking stupid questions is much easier than correcting dumb mistakes.

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#330314 - 26/12/07 11:21 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


How in the heck do we push these guys out without getting into a shootout. We have individuals who don't give a rat's @$$ about anything, and ignore the rules, but how in the heck do we rein in on em? Should we try to organize, of course with the authorities on this, actual permits, or something of that sort or any other policies to weed out these irresponsible simpletons.

Ok, and what trails are they closing down?????

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#330315 - 26/12/07 12:12 PM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


There's the problem and there is little we can do about it. The Rangers, I.e. Officials that have the authority would rather have us locked out as well as the "Reckless" ones.

It's environmentalism, lack of coordinated stewardship, Illegal immigration and a population that doesn't ceed to the laws of the land period, and a dozen other factors that are pushing honest hard working people out of a sport.

It has become the way things are done, punish the whole for what the part has done.

When perhaps we encounter those who Tread NOT So lightly, we take a Plate number down and or take pictures, video and turn it over to anyone who will take it (I think you have a hard time getting anything enforced.) and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the LAW, however what this means is a petty fine and business as usual.

Enjoy the freedom while we still have it, buy your permits, etc. donate to conservation when you can verify that it isn't for the complete closure of Off-roading, elect officials that share our views, document responsible Off-Highway use and share it Via the internet, visit forums like ours, Etc.

Somehow I don't think it will make a difference, sad to say, only slow the closure down if anything. I hope I'm wrong.

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#330316 - 26/12/07 01:40 PM Re: We lost another trail
MadManX Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 184
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by Yasha:
Ok, and what trails are they closing down?????
Its listed as the Butterfield Stage Route in most books. And the only trails near Maricopa. I think it is a 1 or 2 rated (on a scale to 10) trail that is totally 2wd friendly. You can even get some air if you get going at a good pace on the wash boards.

I've been out there alot and the only ones I've noticed that were "bad" were families out with their kids doing parties with 4wheelers. Mostly just parking too far off the trail... But the evedence of a lot worse is very easily noticed.

I think Sheila was planning on making some calls and dropping emails to the names listed in this notice to see if there was anything we could do. If I have to go solo on making efforts to keep that trail open I will... Just cause it is local to me and a long ways for alot of our club, but I hope the club could help out too if we do find some options open to us still.

-MadManX
_________________________
2007 Blue OR Xterra
- Custom RadFlow Coilovers & 750lbs Springs w/ Total Chaos UACs
- Deaver 2 leaf add-a-leaf pack w/Bilstein 5125s & PRG Adjustible Shakles in the Rear
- "Fully Shrocked" by ShrockWorks
- Ramsey 9000UT Winch w/ Synthetic Cable
2007 Red NISMO Frontier
- ShrockWorks Full Underside Armor
- ShrockWorks "Modified" Rock Sliders

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#330317 - 26/12/07 11:18 PM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm down to help. let me know what I can do, once I get back to Az. Also this should give me a good lesson, on how to keep the Rubicon trail open if they decided to close it. This is sad, but hey, if people do not realize that they are spoiling everything for us, maybe its us as a society screwing up somewhere? Cause if they don't respect the trails, what else do they not respect?

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#330318 - 27/12/07 06:02 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Yasha:
I'm down to help. let me know what I can do, once I get back to Az. Also this should give me a good lesson, on how to keep the Rubicon trail open if they decided to close it. This is sad, but hey, if people do not realize that they are spoiling everything for us, maybe its us as a society screwing up somewhere? Cause if they don't respect the trails, what else do they not respect?
Laws... There are laws against the destruction of property, many times there are even signs designating areas as "No-Trespassing", however there is no fear as there is little enforcement against those who break them.

Fix the Enforcement issues and you may end the push to close these areas off to everyone, unless you ride horses or backpack.

Hey you wanted to be a cop right, how about going into something that can help there? Best luck to you!

BTW - I drank the Fat Tire, Thanks Yasha!!! [drink]

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#330319 - 27/12/07 06:35 AM Re: We lost another trail
MadManX Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 184
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Adam... Do you know any contacts with any state or federal officals I could try and get in contact with about this? ... I've just googled some names off that report so far.

Oh... And what about that OHV trail enforcement thing that got posted here a few months back for taking some of us and training us to help enforcement. I know this area was not on the trail or I would have applied. Anyone remember who was running that? ... otherwise I'll go post hunting smile

-MadManX
_________________________
2007 Blue OR Xterra
- Custom RadFlow Coilovers & 750lbs Springs w/ Total Chaos UACs
- Deaver 2 leaf add-a-leaf pack w/Bilstein 5125s & PRG Adjustible Shakles in the Rear
- "Fully Shrocked" by ShrockWorks
- Ramsey 9000UT Winch w/ Synthetic Cable
2007 Red NISMO Frontier
- ShrockWorks Full Underside Armor
- ShrockWorks "Modified" Rock Sliders

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#330320 - 27/12/07 07:10 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


More and more of the public are using public lands. It is an issue we really don't know how to deal with. We manage millions and millions of square miles of public lands but we never thought the public might want to use some of them. We can't figure out how to police the small percentage of the public who don't respect these public lands. We better just keep all the public off these public lands.

Anyone ever get the feeling BLM doesn't know what the word public means?

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#330321 - 27/12/07 08:06 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Randy, I don't know anyone specific, I know that Andy and several others were contacting the Rangers and Sherrif's departments trying to remove the wrecks they've found on the trails, but have only gotten the run around in their efforts.

I suggest looking into your local Ranger Station first and see who they refer you to.

MMNIAC, Bureau of Land Management = Bureaucracy IE. Government not elected by the Public = Not in the Public interest, but in thier own. They are also not an Enforcement Agency. This is where Checks and Balances are a little screwy.

There will have to be a public outcry and an elected official that will have to take the battle to the Govt for us, until then, I don't see much good coming out of this. I also don't see this being an issue when there is such a push to expand Govt into Health Care and Nannying every aspect of our lives. I can hear it now, "There are so many injuries from Off-Roading we have no choice, but to ban it permenantly." BS

[/rant]

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#330322 - 27/12/07 08:47 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Randy, here is the old post about the OHV Ambassador Program.

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=41;t=00190 4#000000

I signed up for this program, but was not selected, as they only took 28 volunteers out of 63 people who signed up. They told me they would keep my application on file for the next training class in Jan-Feb.

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#330323 - 27/12/07 01:53 PM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay so if there is no one to enforce the existing laws, why do you have to obey the one law that closes it?

I wonder why you just can't go anyway. If it is "closed" who is patrolling it?

[devils advocate]

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#330324 - 27/12/07 02:37 PM Re: We lost another trail
MadManX Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 184
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by stone:
Okay so if there is no one to enforce the existing laws, why do you have to obey the one law that closes it?

I wonder why you just can't go anyway. If it is "closed" who is patrolling it?

[devils advocate]
Oh I'm sure the tresspassing fine actually might hurt your wallet... But the destruction form off roading is not even worth the time it takes to write the tickets.

I guess this will be an adventure for me that hopefully can carry over to other areas as well. I know at Saguaro Lake, Walley and I found several abandond and burnt cars... My rig is completely capible of dragging them out of there... but I would do more damage winching them up the hills and towing the carcases that I would just looking the other way... It's sad. BTW... If anyone is interested in dragging cars off a trail I'll help.

Ted... Thanks for hunting that down... I know this area was not on the "list" of avalible areas... But maybe some b!tch!n might get it added.

It would also help those of us that are being good to know when a trail is considered for closer and why before the decision is made... I'm sure we could do alot to delay a closer if given the opertunity.

Though some areas... It's hard to help... I did 5 truck loads and two runs with the winch out on Table Mesa with VirtualJeep awhile back... And you couldn't even tell I was there.

With the hoildays so far we have only gotten voice mail... So hopefully in the next week we might be able to get a human on the phone.

Adam... Where would I find rager station info for a national monumnet in the middle of the desert? The best I found was the BLM manager listed in the artical so far.

Thanks for the help guys... Hopefully some good could come from this.

-Randy
_________________________
2007 Blue OR Xterra
- Custom RadFlow Coilovers & 750lbs Springs w/ Total Chaos UACs
- Deaver 2 leaf add-a-leaf pack w/Bilstein 5125s & PRG Adjustible Shakles in the Rear
- "Fully Shrocked" by ShrockWorks
- Ramsey 9000UT Winch w/ Synthetic Cable
2007 Red NISMO Frontier
- ShrockWorks Full Underside Armor
- ShrockWorks "Modified" Rock Sliders

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#330325 - 27/12/07 03:19 PM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by stone:
Okay so if there is no one to enforce the existing laws, why do you have to obey the one law that closes it?

I wonder why you just can't go anyway. If it is "closed" who is patrolling it?

[devils advocate]
Marshall, you're right, however the Term "High-Road" comes to mind. It's obvious that people don't respect the laws when you see the signs all shot up and not to mention the wildlife, I.e. Saguaro's that have little still holding them up, or graffity on every flat surface or As Madman pointed out the trash. BASTARDS!

These people wouldn't give a damn, even if it were thier own back yard. Hell my Mex (Latino?) neighbors fill thier front yard with trash and it's blowing over into my yard that I spent two days tilling, etc. to make something of it. Looks aren't thier concern unless it is thier Bitch or Car/Truck. Sucks, but what can I do, the last one's that lived there burned our houses down?

Randy, I'll see what I can do to help you find someone to talk to. You'll primarily be looking for a Ranger for your perticular Natl. Forest down there in Maricopa. There could be an issue of cross jurisdiction, between BLM and the Forest Service, Not to mention the Sherrif's department. Another Hurdle as to who exactly is responsible for enforcement.

Here's a bit of info:
LINKY

PROGRAM MANAGER: Tom Dwyer, 333 Broadway SE, Albuquerque, NM 87102, (505) 842-3233, email: tdwyer@fs.fed.us

FAQ\'s LINKY

Specific to Marshall's Q:
Quote:
22. With limited law enforcement resources, how does the Forest Service expect to be able to implement a new regulation and manage OHV use?

Most OHV users want to do the right thing, and the agency believes that proper education and engineering (e.g., road and trail design, signing) can focus law enforcement resources on those few users who intend to violate the law. Forest Service law enforcement personnel play a critical role in ensuring compliance with laws and regulations, protecting public safety, and protecting National Forest System resources. The Forest Service also maintains cooperative relationships with many state and local law enforcement agencies that provide mutual support across jurisdictional boundaries. The new rule provides a consistent framework for enforcing travel management regulations, including provision for a motor vehicle use map.
Man I hope the Off-Road Community can pull it together to keep us in our sport.

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#330326 - 02/01/08 01:36 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


The way the article is written, I am under impression that the main perpetrators are the ATVs (4- or 3-wheeled being the clue). It also corresponds more with the type of damage they are describing. I can't imagine as many SUVs trying to get over random vegetation without losing lots of paint at the very least. So it would seem that even unrelated categories of off-roaders are getting punished...

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#330327 - 02/01/08 06:17 AM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by karlover007:
The way the article is written, I am under impression that the main perpetrators are the ATVs (4- or 3-wheeled being the clue). It also corresponds more with the type of damage they are describing. I can't imagine as many SUVs trying to get over random vegetation without losing lots of paint at the very least. So it would seem that even unrelated categories of off-roaders are getting punished...
True, but blame is on everyone unless we can prove who's doing the damages. It doesn't help when they're taking stolen vehicles out and destroying them. I doubt the thief is worried about the paint job. :rolleyes:

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#330328 - 02/01/08 11:24 AM Re: We lost another trail
MadManX Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 184
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by karlover007:
The way the article is written, I am under impression that the main perpetrators are the ATVs (4- or 3-wheeled being the clue). It also corresponds more with the type of damage they are describing. I can't imagine as many SUVs trying to get over random vegetation without losing lots of paint at the very least. So it would seem that even unrelated categories of off-roaders are getting punished...
Ahh... In this area... Yeah you could go drivin your rig pretty much anywhere without alot of paint scratching. Well non different than if you were on the trail. It's pretty open desert with small vegitation.

-MadManX
_________________________
2007 Blue OR Xterra
- Custom RadFlow Coilovers & 750lbs Springs w/ Total Chaos UACs
- Deaver 2 leaf add-a-leaf pack w/Bilstein 5125s & PRG Adjustible Shakles in the Rear
- "Fully Shrocked" by ShrockWorks
- Ramsey 9000UT Winch w/ Synthetic Cable
2007 Red NISMO Frontier
- ShrockWorks Full Underside Armor
- ShrockWorks "Modified" Rock Sliders

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#330329 - 04/01/08 07:25 PM Re: We lost another trail
Anonymous
Unregistered


Like I said on N4W, its not only quads or only motorcycles, or only 4x4s. There are A-holes in each type of vehicle. The problem is that the desert is so wide open that it is hard to catch someone going off the trails.

I do believe more education, more volunteers policing the areas, and possibly issuing permits to access certain areas would help.

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