TJ, for the love of all that is good and holy...

A revolver acts JUST LIKE a regular shackle when it's folded up.

As soon as it starts opening up, there's more physics involved than just the lever action that WE BOTH AGREE EXISTS IN REGULAR SETUP...

I've ALREADY detailed, in depth, what happens when a revolver opens up, and what forces are acting. You're just being stubborn at this point to differentiate it... A part of me wants to think you already wised up, but are just arguing for the sake of arguing...

One more time... Yes, the video was a very good proof of absolutely nothing I was talking about.

A revolver LOSES traction as it opens up FASTER than a real leaf pack that flexes. I detailed the physics for you over a week ago.

And since it LOSES traction as it opens up, the AMOUNT it will lose will vary depending on the surface. On ASPHALT, the shackle STILL loses traction, it's just that there's more available to LOSE before it a tire can slip when compared to dirt. THIS is why the surface material is important.

How much PERCENTAGE of LOSS is not a variable. That will remain the same. However, the OVERALL amount of traction available will depend on the surface.

Let's look at numbers... Asphalt has a coefficient of friction of 0.8. Dirt has roughly 0.3.

So let's say, arbitraily the tire starts out with traction (friction) equal to 100 lbs weight x the coefficient of friction. And let's say the revolver loses traction linearly through 5" of opening, so 20% loss per inch of opening.

So on asphalt, the traction looks like this:

100 * 0.8 = 80 lbs

START: 80 lbs Total loss: 80 lbs. 20% of 80 lbs = 16 lbs per inch.

1" open: 64 lbs (20% less than 80 lbs)
2" open: 48 lbs
3" open: 32 lbs
4" open: 16 lbs
5" open: 0 lbs

And on dirt, the traction looks like this:

100 * 0.3 = 30 lbs

START: 30 lbs Total loss: 30 lbs. 20% of 30 lbs is 6 lbs per inch.

1" open: 24 lbs (20% less than 30 lbs)
2" open: 18 lbs
3" open: 12 lbs
4" open: 6 lbs
5" open: 0 lbs

So as long as 6 lbs of friction (traction) is enough to keep you moving, then it's all good even at full open on dirt. But if it's, say, 16 lbs, then on pavement at 4" opening, you keep moving. But on dirt, your wheel started spinning somewhere between 2" and 3" opening. And the higher amount needed, the sooner you slip on dirt. That's the nature of the surface, and THAT'S why the surface is important in consderations.

So you're going to argue that it won't matter when you compare a revolver to a regular shackle, 'cause the regular won't travel as far... That's great. THAT WAS NOT AND IS NOT MY ARGUEMENT, SO QUIT GOING BACK TO IT AS IF YOU'RE COUNTERING MY CLAIM....

Here is my arguement against Revolvers, as simply as I can put it:

We KNOW the revolver has to be losing traction faster than a spring pack with equivalent droop limits, because the cantilever force is NO LONGER ACTING if the revolver can actually open up. It CAN'T be acting on the shackle, elsewise it would PUSH the revolver CLOSED!!! But the canteliver force IS ACTING on a full spring pack through that flexing range, because it is STILL PUSHING that side of the axle down!!!

So as soon as a revolver starts opening up, it's past it's peak traction because it's no longer being pushed down. And it's going to lose traction very, very quickly the more it opens up, as the math above shows. And not only that, the effect of that loss will show up SOONER on dirt than it will on pavement, because the available friction is MUCH less.

And at this point, I'm done with this thread. TJ, I'll see you in couple months on the next one of these damn things.