You're still not getting it. I'm talking about lights where there are no turn arrows. You sit in a left turn lane, at the light, when it turns green you move forward into the intersection and wait for oncoming traffic to be clear before you make your left. At a busy intersection, you wait until the light turns yellow and oncoming traffic is clear, then you turn. Usually a few cars can make it before the light turns green for cross-traffic, but if someone runs a late yellow, nobody gets to go before cross-traffic has the right of way. That's the way most lights are set up in Michigan and other places where there aren't turn arrows.