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#611890 - 25/06/07 09:08 AM How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I know, I'm opening the door for a pro gun/anti gun debate here, but I'm hoping we can stay away from that. My real question is-How do you feel about concealed carry laws in your state? Did you even know about them? Do you or people you know carry every day? Just curious about how others felt concerning the fact that most anyone can carry a loaded handgun, concealed on their person almost anywhere with the proper permits.

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#611891 - 25/06/07 09:27 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
NY Madman Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Considering that you started the thread, how do you feel about concealed carry laws? You never revealed your thoughts on the subject.

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#611892 - 25/06/07 09:40 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Arizona and Wyoming are both pretty reasonable with their laws, and they're among states with fully reciprocal agreements, meaning the concealed carry permit from one is valid in the other.

As for the pro/anti debate, when's the last time you heard of a person committing a crime with a legally concealed handgun?

You haven't, because these are people who are good citizens, respect the law, and want our 2nd amendment rights upheld.

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#611893 - 25/06/07 09:45 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I'll start by saying that I do carry...every day. Here's the kicker (waiting for the hypocrite remarks)I hate guns. I wish there were none on the planet and if someone said they could wave a magic wand and make them all dissapear, I'd be on board. However, that is not the case and my state allows the carry of concealed firearms with a CCW permit. So, I made the decision to carry to protect myself and my family if the need were ever to present itself. I hope it never does, but believe me, I am prepared. I have extensive training with my carry weapon and know all the laws that pertain to using said weapon in self defense. I am not a violent person at all, the opposite in fact. But since my state allows it, I want to be on a level playing field with any person who means to do me or my family harm. Hope that explains it. The reason I ask is becaus I have a friend who recently found out that I carry and is now a bit uncomfortable around me (even though I've been carrying around this person for 2 years without him knowing) Just want your thoughts.

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#611894 - 25/06/07 09:57 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
NY Madman Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by PANissanX:

The reason I ask is becaus I have a friend who recently found out that I carry and is now a bit uncomfortable around me (even though I've been carrying around this person for 2 years without him knowing) Just want your thoughts.
Have you asked your friend why he feels uncomfortable that you carry?

He probably has no experience with guns. If I were you, I would take him to the range and teach him to fire the guns you own. He will become familiar with guns and have fun at the same time. That may relieve whatever "gun anxiety" that is involved.

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#611895 - 25/06/07 10:00 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mosi:
You don't have to worry about me and my lawfully carried concealed weapon, you have to worry about the criminals that are unlawfully carrying one.
Well said.

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#611896 - 25/06/07 10:06 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Mosi Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 682
Loc: Portland, OR
I am for it. In Oregon, you need to take a class before you can apply so you do need to put in a bit of time before they just hand you one. The county also completely checks your background both at the state and national levels and look for any arrests or blemishes. If a permit holder does get arrested, it is likely the permit will get taken away.

People that have concealed permits are very law abiding and responsible. Sure, there is the 1% or less that get into trouble, but it takes a lot of responsibility to carry and most are level headed.

Normally, some people that don't know this automatically think that pistol permits are appalling because ANYONE can get one. Bottom line is that there are a lot of nut jobs out there that don't give a shit about you and would have no problem taking your life for the $20 in your wallet. If I have a clean record and am responsible, then I have the right to defend myself, family, and friends against a possible untimely end.

I have also taken numerous concealed handgun live fire courses to be more effective and comfortable..... and practice practice practice!

You don't have to worry about me and my lawfully carried concealed weapon, you have to worry about the criminals that are unlawfully carrying one.

edited... My copy and paste skills messed up the original post. laugh
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#611897 - 25/06/07 10:09 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Kaiser Offline
Member

Registered: 18/01/03
Posts: 6372
Loc: Austin, Texas
I have a CHL permit - but I don't carry. My memory is too short for me to recall the laws properly (and there are a lot of places you can't carry anyway) and the consequences of using the thing are extremely high even if you're completely in the right.. so I just don't generally bother.

AAR, I'm all for the CHL laws. I wish they'd broaden the list of places you can carry so that wasn't such a big issue. I understand not having it in a bar - but I see no reason to specifically exclude them from sporting events, schools etc. IMO you should be able to carry everywhere or nowhere. Having a list of arbitrary exceptions just means that lawful carriers will forget they have it on them and will wind up carrying it somewhere illegally.
_________________________
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#611898 - 25/06/07 10:10 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


NY Madman,
He's just anti gun ownership in general and has no interest in learning about them. I tried that. It's not going to ruin our friendship or anything, I just feel like that's all he's thinking about when we're chilin. I'm no knockin his opinion, just wondering what different people's views are so I can get a better understanding of the way other people see it.

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#611899 - 25/06/07 10:10 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Got my AZ CCW permit. Not so that I can carry every day tho, I took the class mainly to learn about Gun Law in AZ.

Edit to add.

Then if I do need to walk anywhere North of my neighborhood after dark, I can always carry concealed without breaking any laws, and believe me if you see the area North of my neighborhood - You'd be packing too. Can you say - Mexico City Slum? smile

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#611900 - 25/06/07 10:16 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Kaiser:
I have a CHL permit - but I don't carry.
Quote:
Originally posted by RiNkY:
Got my AZ CCW permit. Not so that I can carry every day tho, I took the class mainly to learn about Gun Law in AZ.
Not knocking your choice, just a friendly Q&A. Why get a permit to carry a concealed firearm if you're not going to carry it? You can't control when or where someone will choose you. Obvioulsy, I comply with all the laws in PA of where I can and connot carry, but I generally carry all the time.

Do you just carry in situations where you perceive a greater risk of getting into something; ie- going into the city late at night? Just curious.

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#611901 - 25/06/07 10:20 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by PANissanX:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiNkY:
[b]Got my AZ CCW permit. Not so that I can carry every day tho, I took the class mainly to learn about Gun Law in AZ.
Not knocking your choice, just a friendly Q&A. Why get a permit to carry a concealed firearm if you're not going to carry it? You can't control when or where someone will choose you. Obvioulsy, I comply with all the laws in PA of where I can and connot carry, but I generally carry all the time.

Do you just carry in situations where you perceive a greater risk of getting into something; ie- going into the city late at night?[/b]
Yes - Per my post edit. I would carry if I was going somewhere where I perceived a risk to myself and my family.

The CCW class is the most cost affective class to take to learn about gun law here in AZ at least. I put the extra $65 into getting the permit so I have it if I ever need it. So far in the 9 months or so I have had it, I have not felt the need to carry.

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#611902 - 25/06/07 10:28 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by PANissanX:
I hate guns. I wish there were none on the planet and if someone said they could wave a magic wand and make them all dissapear, I'd be on board. .
There would be alot less meat in my freezer...or i'd have to get alot faster, running with a knife.

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#611903 - 25/06/07 10:40 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have my AZ CCW and carry for two reasons only:

1)It is my right as a law-abiding U.S. citizen.

2)to ensure I/my family do not become a victim.

I can rarely be caught without a firearm nearby. I feel that the most aweful feeling I could have would to be put in a situation where my family was in iminent & life-threatening danger, and I was without means of stopping the threat. I could not live knowing I had a CCW, a firearm, and skill, yet didn't CHOOSE to carry that day. The regret would be incredible. I choose to carry everyday so that I am never caught "with my pants down"...so to speak.

I know a lot of people that choose to carry only when they feel they may be in a higher threat area, but I've watched enough news the past decade to know that the society we live in today is not safe. Schools, post offices, hospitals, banks, resatuarants, city parks; all have been scenes of aggravated assaults with a weapon and/or homicides. I may sound paranoid to some, but I'd rather be alive and paranoid than dead.

One thing that I learned from my CCW class was to always be alert and aware of your surroundings. This simple action can often times help you to avoid a dangerous situation all together. The problem is most people let their guard down all to often and we all know that predators attack the weak and unsuspecting.

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#611904 - 25/06/07 10:47 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would take it a drastic step forward by:

1) Making Concealment Manditory for 18yrs and older.
2) Making all High Schools give Concealment/Firearms Training on the Senior Year.
3) Make the Law [#1] Un-Enforceable, I.e. An officer pulls you over just to see if you're carrying is not allowed. And if you choose not to carry you are not breaking the Law.

I wonder what would happen to Crime if the above was instituted?

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#611905 - 25/06/07 10:50 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


There is a saying:

"An armed society, is a polite (safe) society."

If Jack knows there is a strong possiblity that Jill MAY be carrying, the liklihood that Jack will attempt to cause her physical or mental harm or otherwise impose his will upon her; is far less likely that if Jack is 99% sure she is only carrying lipstick in her purse.

Or if Jack thinks that if he goes in to rob the 7-11, there MAY be 5 people in there that MAY armed. He is not going take his chances robbing that Habib (Simpsons reference).

I also bet that those drivers that flip people off would think twice if they thought the other driver being armed was a probability. Not that it is Okay to shoot someone over that, but it has happened. I bet the dead guy really regrets flipping off that guy that cut him off without knowing it.

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#611906 - 25/06/07 11:02 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by T-Ray:
Or if Jack thinks that if he goes in to rob the 7-11, there MAY be 5 people in there that MAY armed. He is not going take his chances robbing that Habib (Simpsons reference).
Do you mean Apu Nahasapeemapetilon?

and second... I have never heard of a CCW licensee shooting someone for anything other than a legally defensible "self defense" action. Shooting someone for flipiing you off, or for any other reason than threatening you life is 100% unacceptable. I've been robbed (strongarm) while carrying, and I did not draw my weapon (although I could have under PA state law), but the point is not to kill or hurt people, it's to save my life. I do not want to kill someone to save the $40.00 I have in my wallet. If it escalated, I would have had no choice, but I made the descision to let that guy live and have my $40.00. I think I did the right thing. If my wife had been in danger too, thing may have turned out differently. Just saying, a CCW license doesn't give you the right to kill someone over shit talking or situations where there is no "real" threat of death. There is wiggle room for interpretation of the law, so you've got to make the decision that's right for you at the time, but there will be consequences for your actions, legal or not.

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#611907 - 25/06/07 11:11 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I didn't say or imply it did. My post at the top of this page was referring to a hypothetical ideal society where every man, woman, child could be armed.

The point of shooting as a CCW holder is NEVER to kill. It is to stop the threat and preserve life. You incorrectly assume you would have killed him simply by shooting him. Talk to any peace officer and they will tell you that most people do not die from a handgun shot as easily as they do in Hollywood.

Even the threat of death is not reason for shooting. The law supports equal force based on an escalating scale. If someone has a weapon of anykind and is attemping to use that weapon to cause me harm, I can shoot. No weapon, no shoot; period.

Comprende?

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#611908 - 25/06/07 11:15 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by T-Ray:
I also bet that those drivers that flip people off would think twice if they thought the other driver being armed was a probability. Not that it is Okay to shoot someone over that, but it has happened. I bet the dead guy really regrets flipping off that guy that cut him off without knowing it.
I get your point, but this statement above suggests that law abiding CCW holders have commited such acts. Maybe you didn't mean for it to sound that way?

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#611909 - 25/06/07 11:18 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I did not mean it that way. Sorry for the amiguity.

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#611910 - 25/06/07 11:43 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


No worries at all. Just wanted to be clear. [ThumbsUp]

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#611911 - 25/06/07 11:44 AM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by PANissanX:
... The reason I ask is becaus I have a friend who recently found out that I carry and is now a bit uncomfortable around me (even though I've been carrying around this person for 2 years without him knowing) Just want your thoughts.
I found a term for this HOPLOPHOBIA (Link).

Quote:
Hoplophobia, n. Irrational, morbid fear of guns (c. 1980, coined by Col. Jeff Cooper, from the Greek hoplites, weapon; see his book Principles of Personal Defense). May cause sweating, faintness, discomfort, rapid pulse, nausea, sleeplessness, nondescript fears, more, at mere thought of guns. Presence of working firearms may cause panic attack. Hoplophobe, hoplophobic.

Hoplophobes are common and should never be involved in setting gun policies. Point out hoplophobic behavior when noticed, it is dangerous, sufferers deserve pity, and should seek treatment. When confronted about their condition, hoplophobes typically go into denial, a common characteristic of the affliction. Sometimes helped by training, or by coaching at a range, a process known to psychiatry as "desensitization," a useful methodology in treating many phobias.

Hoplophobic behavior is often obvious from self-evident irrational responses to real-life situations, and is frequently seen in the news media and public debate. When a criminal commits a crime using a gun, hoplophobes often seek to disarm, or make lists of, innocent people who didn't do anything, an irrational suggestion.

The idea of creating an enormously expensive government-run 90-million-name database of legitimate gun owners -- which by definition would not include armed criminals -- is a prime example of an irrational hoplophobic response to the issue of crime. How the writing of your name in such a list would help stop crime is never even addressed. (See, "The Only Question About Gun Registration")

An effort is underway nationally to have hoplophobia recognized in the DSM, the official directory of mental ailments. Resistance from elements in the medical profession suggest this may be quite difficult, but that does not reduce the importance of recognizing a widespread, virulent, detrimental mental condition commonly found in the populace. The actual number of undiagnosed hoplophobes is unknown, but believed to be in the tens of millions.

Read Dr. Sarah Thompson's brilliant essay on the medical nature of this afflicition, the article that got the ball rolling on serious medical study of a condition affecting millions of Americans.



Hoplophobes are dangerous. They should not be involved in setting public policy.
Hoplophobes are victims. They are sick and need help.
Hoplophobes deserve sympathy. It's not their fault they are afflicted.
Hoplophobes should seek treatment. Help shoot for a cure.
HOPLOPHOBIA EXPLORED (Link)

Quote:
"You don't need to have a gun; the police will protect you."

"If people carry guns, there will be murders over parking spaces and neighborhood basketball games."

"I'm a pacifist. Enlightened, spiritually aware people shouldn't own guns."

"I'd rather be raped than have some redneck militia type try to rescue me."

How often have you heard these statements from misguided advocates of victim disarmament, or even woefully uninformed relatives and neighbors? Why do people cling so tightly to these beliefs, in the face of incontrovertible evidence that they are wrong? Why do they get so furiously angry when gun owners point out that their arguments are factually and logically incorrect?

How can you communicate with these people who seem to be out of touch with reality and rational thought?

One approach to help you deal with anti-gun people is to understand their psychological processes. Once you understand why these people behave so irrationally, you can communicate more effectively with them.
Very interesting stuff and too long to post here.

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#611912 - 25/06/07 12:07 PM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Since I live in Los Angeles, it doesn't matter how I feel about concealed carry laws, I ain't gettin' a CCW permit. It's just not done here...unless you're politically well-connected, and it doesn't hurt to be filthy rich either. There is no transparency within the issuance program, so nobody knows who has one or how they managed to get one. Occasionally, you'll hear that some celebrity has one, because they are caught with a firearm during the commission of another crime (often DUI or drug possession), and it is revealed that they have an LA City-issued CCW permit. The rest of us plebeians can go fuck ourselves, though. Our safety is contingent upon cell-phone reception and the nearest on-duty officer.

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#611913 - 25/06/07 12:13 PM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


PA CCW here too. The only other person who knows I carry is my one friend who I shoot with, and we applied at the same time. My wife doesn't even know.

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#611914 - 25/06/07 12:25 PM Re: How do you feel about concealed carry in your state?
Anonymous
Unregistered


KY has a conceal/carry law. Have to take a class, and pass an accuracy shooting test. Not a big deal at all. Our law is written in a way that says you have to hit x out of 10 targets (can't remember how many). However, it says nothing about you having to aim it yourself, personally. This has led to quite a few legally blind people passing; the instructor sights the gun for them, and they pull the trigger. Nice little loophole, there...

At any rate, I don't carry. I've considered it, but I'm just too cheap to buy a real gun. I'd definately like to have a .38, at some point in time, to carry when I'm on the motorcycle (I commute on a motorcycle), 'cause there are quite a few arseholes on the streets nowadays, and it'd be nice to have a little show of force if necessary, so they'll leave me alone. That's not enough of a concern to make me go out and spend $$, though. Maybe someday, just not right yet.

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