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#613736 - 01/02/08 06:19 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13694
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Someone on a local 4x4 board asked a related question: Could a helicopter take off from a turntable rotating at the same RPM as the blades but in the opposite direction?
I say, discounting the tail rotor, the answer is no. The blades would be stationary in relation to the ground, therefore not moving through the air to create lift. The net effect would be the same as if you held the blades and spun up the turbine: the copter would spin under the blades.
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#613737 - 01/02/08 06:29 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
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Originally posted by OffroadX: Someone on a local 4x4 board asked a related question: Could a helicopter take off from a turntable rotating at the same RPM as the blades but in the opposite direction?
The helicopter wouldn't be able to stay on a turntable that moved as fast as the blades. It would be thrown off, so in essence it is a moot point. But, if it could stay on a turntable moving at such a rapid velocity, yes, it probably would be able to take off.
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#613738 - 01/02/08 06:35 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Paul H: Never have I said the plane gets thrust from wheels. I said the tires would blow.
And while a 747 can produce enough thrust to take off with no wheels it would not happen.
And this is why the debate continues. Paul, you're right if it were a plane that required a high enough takeoff speed the tires would explode and the plane would be destroyed. But the myth says "a plane" not every plane
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#613739 - 01/02/08 06:35 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Paul H: Never have I said the plane gets thrust from wheels. I said the tires would blow.
And while a 747 can produce enough thrust to take off with no wheels it would not happen.
And this is why the debate continues. Actually the debate does not continue. Dumbasses like you continue to embarass themselves. This has always been a High School Physics I question. Sorry if you missed the class.
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#613740 - 01/02/08 08:35 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 23/03/01
Posts: 1906
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Originally posted by TravelingFool: Originally posted by XPLORx4: [b]Note that F1 cars blah blah blah... friction... blah... It's apples and oranges to compare cars and planes in this scenario.[/b]Hahaha! You clearly did not read my full post, instead inserting "blah blah" where you chose to ignore the point I was trying to make. :rolleyes:
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#613742 - 01/02/08 05:05 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
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Originally posted by ChefTyler: Originally posted by Paul H: [b]Never have I said the plane gets thrust from wheels. I said the tires would blow.
And while a 747 can produce enough thrust to take off with no wheels it would not happen.
And this is why the debate continues. Paul, you're right if it were a plane that required a high enough takeoff speed the tires would explode and the plane would be destroyed. But the myth says "a plane" not every plane [/b]Thank you. All I suspected was my theory was possible on a bigger plane. I will hush now as oto not offend Jeffsucksdicks
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#613743 - 01/02/08 07:10 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Paul H: Originally posted by ChefTyler: [b] Originally posted by Paul H: [b]Never have I said the plane gets thrust from wheels. I said the tires would blow.
And while a 747 can produce enough thrust to take off with no wheels it would not happen.
And this is why the debate continues. Paul, you're right if it were a plane that required a high enough takeoff speed the tires would explode and the plane would be destroyed. But the myth says "a plane" not every plane [/b] Thank you. All I suspected was my theory was possible on a bigger plane. I will hush now as oto not offend Jeffsucksdicks[/b]You don't offend me. You make me laugh. Even large plane wheels are unlikely to explode. The reason is that the wheels/tires are rated well over operational requirements. They can easily survive extreme cicumstances such as double speed because of a factor of safety is built in. At the end of the day none of that matters. The question is a Physics I problem. Speculation about the wheels or tires is just a distraction introduced by those too ignorant to understand the fundamentals of this simple question.
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#613744 - 01/02/08 08:41 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
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Originally posted by OffroadX: Someone on a local 4x4 board asked a related question: Could a helicopter take off from a turntable rotating at the same RPM as the blades but in the opposite direction? Interesting...tht got me thinking if the turntable was spinning but the rotor isn't, would the Hellicopter lift off of the turntable if it matched the rpms of the rotor at takeoff? Great, now we have something else for Mythbusters to test, and have people still argue over anyways. :rolleyes:
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Jeffrey I'm just trying to put my tires on the rocks of life.
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#613745 - 02/02/08 02:01 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 23/03/01
Posts: 1906
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Originally posted by Rockaholic: if the turntable was spinning but the rotor isn't, would the Hellicopter lift off of the turntable if it matched the rpms of the rotor at takeoff? Probably, but as soon as it left the turntable, it would come back down, since the turntable (external to the helicopter) was the source of power.
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#613746 - 02/02/08 05:44 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
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Jeff you are a complete idiot you have now proven yourself. Aircraft tires while designed to be tougher than regular tires are still rated for speed. It amazes me you think the tires can handle double the speed they are rated for. I in my theory of why a large plane would not fly on this myth even gave the tires to well over four times what they were rated at before failing. Here is a link for military and large aircraft tires. Note the speed rating. The tires are built strong for the shock of landing. Not to drive 500 miles per hour. Jeff is a fucking arrogant asshole I understand the plane will move. I understand the physics as to why the plane will move. I have never ever debated that. I simply posted another theory to the original question in which a large plane requiring a longer acceleration and how I felt it would fail. Never said it wouldn't move. Just said it would not take off. The tires would fail and no matter how powerful the engines were if the tires failed soon the landing gear would and the plane would not take of due to that or running out of runway. it is that simple I am not making it complicated or trying to hold on to the plane not flying. You are too hell bent on being some kind of god in your own eyes who gets off on calling people idiots to probably understand. It is ok. They make medicine for your condition. It is called go fuck yourself. it can be found at Walgreens for 19.95.
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#613747 - 02/02/08 08:02 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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"They make medicine for your condition. It is called go fuck yourself." Classic. Noted for future use.
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#613748 - 02/02/08 08:53 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
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Just a thought, Paul, because you are hung up on the wheels failing -
In the original scenario the plane (of no specific type) is sitting on a treadmill of infinite length.
So why are you hung up on the practical problem of the tire rating but choose to totally ignore the pratical problem that the treadmill in the scenario can never exist, because the belt for the treadmill would have to be twice the length of the treadmill, and since 2x infinity can only equal infinity if 2 is equal to 1 (which it isn't) the treadmill in the scenario will never really exist.
If you want to nitpick, why don't you assume the plane is a wooden antique which has been exposed to the elements and termites and which, because fo the structural damage from time and exposure, preceeds to fall apart from the engine vibrations?
Yes, in the real world, the tires might fail before the plane takes flight, but that's really not the essense of the myth.
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Jeffrey I'm just trying to put my tires on the rocks of life.
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#613751 - 03/02/08 07:25 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
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#613753 - 03/02/08 10:06 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Rockaholic: What if we put a hobby on a treadmill...? Then it would probably take the fuck off if it had a Propeller or Jet Engine strapped to it.
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#613756 - 03/02/08 05:21 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Member
Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
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Originally posted by XPLORx4: Originally posted by Rockaholic: [b] if the turntable was spinning but the rotor isn't, would the Hellicopter lift off of the turntable if it matched the rpms of the rotor at takeoff? Probably, but as soon as it left the turntable, it would come back down, since the turntable (external to the helicopter) was the source of power.[/b]Yes, but if that helicopter had wheels like an office chair...
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"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist
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#613757 - 07/02/08 07:05 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Holyshit. Another excuse to use this? I cant believe it! BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we need to use the BULLSHITDYNO too?? (hinthint) MGJ
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#613758 - 08/02/08 06:42 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Paul H: .....It is ok. They make medicine for your condition. It is called go fuck yourself. it can be found at Walgreens for 19.95. 20 bucks, huh? Sounds like a ripoff. I think the reason we're not agreeing is because we are thinking of different types of planes. This is my plane:
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#613759 - 08/02/08 07:10 AM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by JeffW: Originally posted by Paul H: [b] .....It is ok. They make medicine for your condition. It is called go fuck yourself. it can be found at Walgreens for 19.95. 20 bucks, huh? Sounds like a ripoff.
I think the reason we're not agreeing is because we are thinking of different types of planes. This is my plane:
[/b]Jeff, you have a reading comprehension problem. Or maybe it's just you being an ass and pushing buttons for the fun of it...I don't know or care, but...READ CAREFULLY WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN BELOW. In the confines of the riddle, the plane flies. Using a real world plane, with a fictitious conveyor belt runway, the tires blow, the plane doesn't fly.
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#613760 - 08/02/08 01:10 PM
Re: plane on conveyor belt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by ChefTyler:
Using a real world plane, with a fictitious conveyor belt runway, the tires blow, the plane doesn't fly.[/QB] Did you even watch the mythbusters episode? Some planes may have tire issues, but others can undoubtedly take off (on a simulated treadmill). I don't understand why this is still a debate.
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