Just curious whether anyone has outperformed (or not outperformed a Cherokee or YJ). I'm not talking about a gazillion upgrades though - just relatively stock.

Thanks.

Yep, the jeep had smaller tires but due to having a frame with better clearance, it was able to climb skid plate rock. Strike one against the xterra

That wasn't the answer I was hoping for...are there any mods that would even out the playing field?

I believe a cherokee will always outperform an Xterra off road, unless you first put 150,000 miles on the engine and the jeep ceases to work.

Well that's just great...what CAN we outperform?
(kia...Suzuki...?)

Guys,

The Xtera is an SUV, not a Jeep... With independent front suspension, "road" gears, and no clearances... it is what it is... a great light off road vehicle that can get you to and from work.

Personally, I call my X an UnJeep, just so there is no confusion with Jeep guys.

Replace the front end with a solid axle, buy some gears from hell (200:1), lift it six inches, add some Detroit lockers, and you have the start of a hard core crawler, but you will not be driving it to work.

If you want to get into rock crawling, buy a built Suk, or Jeep. For those of us living in reality, I like my X.

I go ghost towning, run down mine roads, go fishing in out of the way places, and my X works great.

See ya on UnJeep trails...
Doc

You speak as if every Jeep is highly modified as well. You take the typical XTERRA and typical XTERRA owner and put them on Paragon's level II trails with the typical Jeep and typical Jeep owner, and I bet the XTERRA performs as well or better.

Why did you buy an Xterra ?

I wanted a vehicle that I could afford, that could carry 4 adults plus gear, is likely to last well over 100,00 miles, had fairly decent off road capability and good on road handling.

The Xterra is not perfect on any of those, but its a good compromise.

Best attribute of the Xterra is that it attracts an enormous amount of Beaver, so if you're in the hunt for pelt and have a Solar Yellow you've got it made.

On the Greenridge Trail we had 8 X's. A guy in a sotck Grand Cherokee ended up behind us on the trail. When we got to a really difficult mud bog that we had to go around over a rock, the 8 X's (some bone stock) got over fine (with some good spring hanger scrapping). The Grand Cherokee got completely high centered and was totally stuck. Does this mean the X is "better" - no, but it does mean you can find an obstacle the X does much better on.

I have no doubt that given a good driver, both an Xterra and stock Cherrie will do about the same... but that's where it ends... stock. Few Cherries I wheel with are stock. Most are lifted, locked, and geared down to hell.

Given that Jeeps have been off roading a long time (WWII) and the tremendous amount of after market parts, it is very easy to build out a Jeep. As for the front ends... the only serious choice for serious off roading is a solid front axle. Gears... maybe someday the Calmini folks will offer a 78% low reduction gear for the X, but then look forward to blowing out CV joints.

The bottom line is my X is a great off road vehicle... not a rock crawler.

Reliability the X is way above the Jeep. Comfort the X great. And as a chick or dude magnet (whatever trips your switch), the X works like a charm.

I bought an X to go to places that a Land Rover can only dream about... but that's another flame war.

Enjoy your X for what it is... a great way to enjoy the outdoors and don't sweat the guys climbing boulder fields... they're just doing their Jeep thing.

See ya on the trail,
DOc

It was my 1st off road adventure. I was in my brand new stock X on a back trail on Assatigue Island National Seashore in deep sand. I went around a corner came across a Jeep Wrangler frame deep in the sand.

It was 100 degrees and the mosquitos were out in force. Deciding not to risk being eaten alive by the bugs while trying to dig him out, I hooked a strap to him and "walked" him out. (The loser didn't even have a shovel.. he was trying to dig himself out by hand). He thanked me and headed back to the paved roads.

Was my stock X better than his stock Jeep? Prob not... but the X is wonderful in sand. Jeeps are good too, even better if you LET SOME AIR OUT OF YOUR TIRES! (There are air stations at the trail head on the island... no excuse).

HaPpY Trails,

Ken

P.S. When telling this story to Jeep owners, I always leave out the part about the 30+ lbs of air in that guys tires.

Hey Lemsip:

After 2 Cherokees and A Grand, I was heartbroken when they discontinued the Cherokee and replaced it with that gay looking Liberty - obviously targeting the chick market.

I liked the look of the X, and got all excited from the brochures and off-road prowess claims. Plus, I thought Nissan put a lot of thought into it. So far, my gas mileage sucks, my wheel size limits tire upgrades, and I had to wire in my own electric brake controller wire. I still like my X, but I'm looking for some redeeming qualities over the stock Cherokee.

What about an X versus Liberty? Any thoughts?

Yeah, I'll post in "general"!

Best attribute of the Xterra is that it attracts an enormous amount of Beaver, so if you're in the hunt for pelt and have a Solar Yellow you've got
it made.

--------------------
Brap On! That's fuggin great!
-cbx

You MUST be joking...unless you are talking Freelander.

A Disco and a Rangie will outperform an Xterra offroad just as easily as a Cherokee and a Grand will. (no need to even mention the Wrangler or Defender)

Outstanding that the X was able to make it up. It really was made to look easy.

But a question: It looked like the LR was hung up going up hill in the last sequence due to its' long wheelbase and due to the departure angles being impeded by the extended ass of the truck. It looked like the entire rear end was dragging as it was impeeding progress.

The X has a shorter wheelbase and thus wasn't hung up as it scooted up. Dare I speculate that it has a better departure angle as well?

Right; wrong?

Just another story. On vacation my brother with his YJ got stuck on a snowy hill and could not get to the road. Our friend with his Cherokee got stuck in the ice tring to pull him up the hill. By the time I got back with the X a Ford had pulled the Cherokee out and I didn't spin a tire pulling the YJ up the hill. There are good days and bad days.

I like Jeeps but I think you need to spend more money to make one more compedative off-road than an Xterra. Now the Cherokee has a 3 inch lift (that brought it up to the same height as my stock X) and a winch. There is no doubt that he could go anywhere...but I would not have any problem following.

O.k., o.k....I get the picture - the X is a better 'stock'vehicle, but would get it's ass kicked by a done-up Cherokee!

Is this a good summary?

Well I have a 2001 Frontier Crew Cab, not an Xterra. But 6 months after I got it I went to Moab. All I had done was to add a topper and a hitch.(2 things that hinder not help off road ability) I was even still on my stock tires.
Around lunch one day I ran into a Jeep club on "Steel Bender" All of the jeeps were highly modified and the smallest tire in the group was 35". I hopped out of my stock Nissan with a trail map. I had not been paying close attention to where we were on the map. All of the Jeepers seemed to be looking at me. I asked them where on the trail we were. The answer was "between this virtually-impassable spot and this totally-impassable spot. They were all staring at me. I decided that it was time for lunch and to go back down the route we had taken to have lunch by a creek we had crossed. As I went back to my truck the entire group was still looking at me as if I had 3 heads.
I later figured out why they were staring, I guess they didn't expect a stock Nissan to be able to make it that far. I figure anyone of them who had had trouble with that section of trail felt sheepish after seeing a stof Frontier had done it with no damage.

A lot of what can be done with a vehicle has to do with the driver. I am not saying that I am an expert -- I consider myself a novice, I have only been at this for a 2 years or so. My father-in-law always say about most people in 4x4s (and don't know how to drive them) "just because you have a scalpel, it doesn't make you a doctor."

That's me and my X in that clip. I believe the Rover was the 100" wheelbase model. The X has a 104" wheelbase. The Rover has a much better departure angle than the Xterra stock, and that one is lifted and on 35" tires. He also has a locker in the rear diff.
His problem was that he was intent on crawling up, and there was a rut at the foot of the rock face that was just big enough to swallow his tires. All he (and I) needed was a little goose to start up it and it was a piece of cake. He shouldn't have had any problem at all, but he had a one-track mind.

Brent

Well, seeing as I currently own both, let me throw my .02 cents.

Stock - Hill Climbing Cherokee all the way. Modified - Cherokee all the way.

Stock - Mud - toss up, more driver than anything.
Modified - toss up again in my book

Stock - Rock Crawl - Cherokee all the way
Modified - Rock Crawl - Cherokee all the way. That solid axle is tough to beat, plus you can mod the hell out of a cherokee for half the price of the X.

Stock - Getting babes - X all the way
Modified - Cherokee - A modified Cherokee looks beastly and is a chick magnet

Ride/reliability/comfort/ - Stock or Modified Xterra hands down. I love the Cherokee, but it feels like an amusement park ride on regular pavement compared to the Xterra. Also, I add an extra hour on my work time whenever I work on the Cherokee just for broken bolts. I swear DC makes parts out of tinfoil and peanut brittle.

The things the Cherokee has over the X is

1. Much lower gearing
2. More horsepower
3. Solid Axle (this is debatable I guess)
4. Lighter
5. Cheaper, and easier to fix

I think that if you were strictly going for an off road vehicle, a Cherokee is a very good choice. I am not a wrangler fan, and from what I here the longer wheelbase of a Cherokee makes for a better climber anyway.

What is it with you guys and 'chick magnets?!!' :p - where was this truck when I was single??? .

I must admit, it is a nice looking truck, and I get an awful lot of looks with it, but I'm trying to hypnotize myself into feeling good about taking it into those 'hard-to-get-to' fishing spots.

I may have to spend $1000 and get the BFG All-Terrains as a minimum.

Oh, don't sweat it, I'm sure it'll work for you on the guys, too . . .

Where is your $1000 in mods coming from not including tires. I have spent less than 500 not including tires and am very impressed with the truck.

What I have

Calmini Sliders (bought used)
Calmini Idler Arm Brace (due to the larger tires)
Calmini Axle Truss (rear diff skid) WON AT GOX :p
Pathfinder Transfer case skid (still doesn't have a scratch on it but it was only like 15-20 bucks)
Custom Oil Pan skid (since removed)
2" BL
33x10.5 TSL radials on Black steel stockies

It cost me 125 bucks and a weekend to get 33's to fit with no rubbing. Try doing that with a Cheerokee.

ALAN

Now WHY ON EARTH would you say something like that?!


Let's not give these yankees the wrong idea about us canucks!

Alas...much I would like to take advantage of the chick magnet...my wife would have something to say about it...unless...I...bring...one...home......(hey, now we're talking!)

Oh, sorry...what I meant was $1000 FOR tires (all 5)

I believe he was saying he would spend $1000 for the tires, not for mods before tires . . .

But $1000 (cdn) for BFG All-Terrains? They go for approximately $150 (us) each on TireRack.com. I guess you won't be gettin' the spare, eh? :p

Trade your 5 spoke 17's for the 02 se 4 spoke 16" straight across (make sure they get 5 matched rims for your 5 rims) and you should be out the door with All-Terrains for less then $700. Just a thought.

NismoX02 is sitting on my 5 spokes now and we both came away happy.

ALAN

Yeah, you're right...but my dealer won't do anything, so I've posted them in XOC Buy and Sell area. I'd like to get the '02 SE wheels, but I would also like to get the difference back in the cost. If I found someone who wanted to upgrade and was going to spend the money anyway, we could make a deal.

Somewhere (I can't remember where) there was an article done on this subject, basically one of the mag editors did a "head to head" comparison of both vehicles in stock form. I can't recall all the deatils, but the general outcome was that the Cherokee did better on the rocks, and the X did better in the mud and slop. Some kind of argument was made about IFS being a tad better for getting through slop and snow, but it was more like one guy's subjective opinion than anything.

I've owned cherokees in the past and right now I'd have to say it will be long time before I own another one, due mostly to reliability problems. It's too bad DC makes such a great off-roader that has such spotty reliability. And I agree with the "feels like an amusement park ride" comment. It's somewhat herky jerky as far as driveability goes.

Well, I'm going to do some fishing in Chilliwack today, and I'll try some of the dirt roads out there - I now a good spot to test this out.

I have a 93XJ (Cherokee)168,000mi 3"lift etc.,and my X 3"lift etc. After going to Moab with the X, I missed my Jeep,the articulation and approach/departure , gearing are much more suited for the harder trails. However.... I was very impressed with the Xterras abilities off- road ,IFS or not it did great! With the swaybars disconnected it does have fairly good travel.And most of all its comfotable and doesn't ride like sh** like my XJ. All in all my XJ will out perform the X off-road.

O.k., I'm impressed. I haven't got the pics out yet, but I took the X off-road.

I got up to my bumper in mud and water, and cruised through pretty well. I was on my own, which was pretty stupid, but I had to find out what the X could do. I did, however, come to the conclusion that I need the BFG A/T's for some serious action.

Thanks to all for your feedback and support - I'm getting more comfortable with my X.

Costas,

Instead of going out alone, why don't you hook up with some folks from the PNWX in BC and find out what your X can do?

I had a Cherokee prior to my X.

Most my off-highway driving is on forest service roads and some deactivated logging roads. I enjoy exploring the old roads and tackling some tougher stuff, but this constitutes less than a quarter of my off-road time.

There were times driving my Cherokee on the rutted, pot-holed forest service roads when I thought the bloody truck was going to fall apart, with all the banging and rattling. I find that I can drive my X on those same roads at nearly twice the speed with less than half the rattling. Two things contribute to this. One, the general quality of construction of the vehicle. Two, IFS. This is one of the few conditions off-road in which IFS is better than solid axle, however these conditions constitute the majority for me.

Leaving aside reliability (which definitely favours the X), my thoughts as to the better vehicle:

General off-highway driving: Xterra
More gnarly rock-crawling, etc.: Cherokee (altough you would want to mod it up a little...)

Once again, it all depends on what you're using it for...

I can't say I was even aware we had a club up here. I'll be looking more into it soon.

If you want to do some head-to-head comparisons GONE Moab is about 6 months away.

Sorry about the blank above...I am a new owner and new to the forum! My question was....since I am a "beaver" and now have a Solar Yellow...what do I get?

Yeah, being a "beaver" myself I was wondering the same thing. . . . Maybe some wood for my dam? :rolleyes:

Solar Yellow Chicks unite!
Symantha

You should be careful around this board. One of these guys is liable to answer you...

Granted, my '92 Laredo kept me from bashing my head when I hydroplaned & went 65 (in reverse) down a freeway shoulder in heavy rain & I hit 2 pine trees & was still able to step out in 8 inches of water & climb up the hill for a trooper to give me a ticket for 'Too Fast For Conditions', but their Cherokees put the stupid gas tank just behind the REAR bumper! Think about all those rear-end accidents everytime you clean your X's REAR or FRONT skid plates. Also, the electrical nervous system was placed by an engineeringly challenged moron along the left-rear corner; thus creating a frying pan for my dash which took a few weeks for the braniacs in Atlanta to figure out. The power 'everything' had its own agenda. Since I've had my X for a year now, I've realized that Nissan can break as many of their cars as they want to for sales, because they have more of a budget than we do. These aren't the street-legal dune buggies or life-sized kiddie monster trucks they'd like us to think they are. They were obviously designed (stock) for impressing your girlfriend or whomever, and a couple of bandaids if you need 'em. Where were the rubbers?

oh, if I wasn't such a gentleman....

Originally posted by Costas:
oh, if I wasn't such a gentleman....


Why the need to be a gentleman? Do tell..... :rolleyes:

I out perform Jeeps all the time. I always pass them and look through my rear view mirror and say see ya!!.

Because it effectively pisses off the man-hating, feminist carpet-munchers - er, I mean - because it's the right thing to do. That's probably a topic for another forum


Anyway, a buddy has a Jeep TJ w/8" lift(can't remember the make) and 35" BFG muds. He's been dying to kick my ass in the bush, but I don't think he wnats to rock crawl. Would a lift help my X?

The only thing that would help your X against a TJ like that is if you sold it.

oh, great - you're a lot of help...
:rolleyes:

I could always run him off a cliff..

Just hold on there. I have seen many an X rumble through the mud without a problem... and I've pulled more that one Jeep Cherrie out of the mud myself.

Hey I'm just being realistic. Xterras are great for forestry roads and can do some pretty hard things, but Jeeps can and do leave us in the dust when the going gets tough. Don't mean to break your hearts boys, but if you're looking to do the really ugly trails you bought the wrong vehicle.

I have to concur with Superjens. An Xterra isn't too far off from a Cherokee, but really is in a different class than a TJ (particularly one that has been lifted, re-shoed, etc.)

A TJ has far sharper entry/exit angles, thus allowing it to go in and out of deeper ditches and higher obstacles. It has coil spring supension on front and back solid axles, thus allowing much greater wheel articulation, (and the ability to give it more lift). And it has much shorter wheelbase, thus allowing it to maneuver in tighter spaces.

And that is stock. A TJ with 8" of lift and 35" tires is a whole different story. It is not possible to do either of these things to an X without some very significant modifications to the body and replacing the IFS. It would be dangerous to try to follow a modded up TJ without understanding the differences in capabilities.

The TJ is better for rock-crawling, and getting over and through tricky obstacles, but the X is better for what most of us use it for... (and for that matter what most people use their TJ's for).

You will get a much bumpier ride on forest roads with a TJ, and who would want to try and sleep in the back of a TJ, drive with a canoe on top of it, or tow a larger boat with it?

Yeah no doubt, my Honda Civic had a better ride than Xlax's TJ used to on those forestry roads. I gotta hand it to the Xterra on fast "ralley" type dirt roads, I find it absolutely rocks. I love being able to fly down those trails without putting any thought to what I'm going over.

sigh...as long as you're not riding on oem tires...sigh...


Actually, I'm pretty realistic about getting my ass kicked by the TJ - but it would sure be nice to impress them though.

You want to impress your friend with the TJ? Go backwoods camping together...

My buddy (with a TJ) and I went camping/offroading for a weekend up near Lillooet. He was mighty "impressed" on that rainy night when I climbed into the back of my X amidst mattress, pillow, and quilts and he had to set up his tent in the rain.

He was also mighty "impressed" when we were stuck behind a logging truck on a dusty FSR for half an hour and I rolled up my windows and turned on the A/C.

The X definitely has advantages. Enjoy them...

Best argument I've heard yet, you're absolutely right. We don't have much competition in the Haul 4 Friends With All Their Gear category.

You can also impress them by taking the Xterra over hard stuff and finishing with less damage than the Jeeps.
You can't outperform a Jeep, but they never think you can do more than a large speed bump.

Truth is that the Xterra rocks on moderate to moderate/tough trails. There aren't many IFS vehicles that can do better off road, and none in its price range.

Funny... you didn't look to happy when I blew right by you in my Grand Cherokee Limited. That's with a bone stock 5.2L V8 by the way... OH wait, V8 isn't in an Xterra owners vocabulary is it? Hehehee....

Gotta admit, point set and match to the Xterra in that category.

Different class when it comes to wheelin against a TJ though......

Had 4 co-workers who bought Cherokees the same time that I had my Ranger. All 4 vehicles had cracked windsheilds first hour from wheeling. Co-workers brand new Cherokee smoked the trans, had to drag him out of Coyote Canyon. One other co-workers Cherokee developed bad oil leak from valve cover, worse than my Ranger, he had only 30,000 miles on engine. They may wheel pretty good, but you need to make it home too. I just don't think the build quality is there in the Chrysler products, when you compare stock to stock. I looked long and hard at the Liberty, but from my co-workers experience and there horror stories of getting things serviced the choice was simple.

Just thought I would give my two cents on the Jeep/Xterra thing. The company I work for has owned 4 Jeeps (3 Cherokees and now a Liberty). I will say undoubtly that the Cherokee, in the hands of an experienced driver, is one of the greatest offroad vehicles ever made. Also, the Liberty is very capable, as well. I work for a land surveying firm in Southern WV, and have extensive offroad experience in a variety of vehicles (the Jeeps, Toyota trucks, and both an Isuzu Rodeo and Trooper). We survey large tracts (anywhere from 2-4000 acres to 25,000 acres) as well as smaller ones. Routinely we are many miles from any "main" road, often on old skid roads or 4-wheeler paths. The 2-door is the one to have. Although they are small inside, you can put enough equipment for a three man crew and the crew in one and go just about anywhere. The one problem we had with the Cherokees was the lever popping out of 4wd drive on especially steep or inclined slopes where heavy use of the throttle was required. So, we developed a system where the passenger would hold the lever back, leaving the driver able to steer with one hand and use the emergency brake with the other if need be.
As I mentioned earlier, the Liberty is proving to be quite a capable vehicle, as well. Although, I don't think I would drive it through Huff Creek like we did the Cherokee. Water over the hood and a two foot vertical bank to climb up. Oh the stories I could tell!

The more I've heard - the more I like my X - I have to see it perform to get away from the Cherokee mentality ( I do miss it sometimes).

The wife gets to drive the X most of the time, so every time I get it - it feels like a new truck! LOL

I dunno- it's been a wall for me on this 4x4 thing - part of me wants to see the X kick ass, part of me doesn't want to know. Anyboby felt that? Or I am I getting too close with my X?? :rolleyes:

Was unaware of your site 'til a recent outing with a couple of Xterra's. Saw this post and had to comment.

Enjoy your Xterra for what it is. Comparing it to the Cherokee isn't fair to either vehicle - they're both "compromise SUV's", but the Jeep has more been tailored to off-road, and the Xterra to more practical uses.

The Cherokee is too small for many people. Sure you can fold the uncomfortable rear seat down and pack the back with stuff, but it's still a relatively small volume that you've got to work with. The XJ was made to fit on narrow trails - it doesn't hold a whole bunch.

The Cherokee is noisy. Wind noise and engine noise are no small issue. If you want to enjoy a quality stereo, forget about putting it in the Cherokee - driving this poorly insulated brick down the road doesn't suit the dynamic range of classical music.....if you just want to bang your head, who cares what kind of sound you have, as long as you can play it loud - but a refined listening environment isn't found in the Cherokee.

Creature comforts in the newer Cherokees are actually not that bad - but you're still dealing with a truck mentality with its designers. Sure you can get electric windows, doors, neat computer consoles and fancy interior lighting, but forget any "real" luxury options.....no seat position memory, mirror postion memory, posteurally correct seating and the like. The ride is still that of a truck - the stock leaf springs a tad too soft to allow for better flex, but fading shocks and a buckboard ride on forest service roads is a reality. Many XJ owners change out their suspension as one of the first modifications - not just for off-road prowess, but to improve on-road ride.

Anyway, put a locker in you Xterra, get some rock rails, throw a 2" budget lift into it so you can fit a taller tire and have at 'er. At least you'll be able to hear the cello as you toot around the trails.....


Photo by Jens Petersen, all rights reserved.

Sounds just like the X ya know, though I find the ride comfy enough.

Brent

I'll try and keep this as unbiased and accurate as possible from Jeep perspective. It doesn't matter...no "I beat a jeep on this terrain." "Jeeps are just plain better..." IT's a balance, it's not just the vehicle, it's the driver. I wouldn't stack a Wrangler against a X firstoff... it's not even in the same league...they service two totally different consumers, I don't hold any weakness's against my buddies X when he gets stuck...cause I don't have Air conditioning. As for Cherokees and X's, it is a closer comparison but still they end after four doors and storage space...the drivetrain is totally different. How do you decide which sixze is better?? the smaller cherokke or the X??? depends what you need. However the Liberty is a piece of trash...seriously on my jeep boards, out of all the KJ's I see (liberty model name) There is one I respect and it's lifted and looking into a SFA conversion. Seriously, Liberties aren't marketed to the same crowd as the Cherokees and Wranglers, Just as the X isn't. The liberty is more SUV then Jeep. That may sound ignorant but you have to see the culture that has grown from jeeps...the cherokee alone is 20 some years old...the family line goes back atleast 50. That said, I would liek to go back to my previous statement about balance...I wouldn't dare put a cherokee or Wrangler against the X if say the X was driven by an ARCA competitor. It's not just the vehicle you drive but the elements around it which make it great.

*Edit sorry for the poor grammer, I had class and I don't feel like editing.

Xterra--Jeep---Xterra---Jeep Well, I got both and (02' 4X4 SE V6, Jeep GCLTD 5.2L V8) an to tell you the truth I love'm both...who's tougher, who's better... depends on what you want to do with them. But I'll tell you this I had a 73' Toyota FJ40 Landcruiser that stomp on'em all when it came to 4wheeling (Rubicon no problem, Mohave yeah baby, Trinity Alps go for it, Loma Prieta oops, rolled it-dumb me). Remember the meaner and tougher the rig the worst you get stuck. BTW I've had the X for about a week now and I've grown quite attached to it! My wife drives the GC until she takes the X away from me.

My mom started taking her GC on Jeep Jamboree's when they first came out. Many times she would have the only GC on the run. At first they discouraged her from certain trails but she insisted, ultimately impressing them and me. She has had 3 since and each she has put on a 2-3in. lift and air lockers. It would pretty much go anywhere including the rubicon. She has less problems with her Jeeps than I have had with my X. Her current one now has 116K miles on it. Jeep's 4.0L I-six is much better than our V6.

Pffft, XJs can't wheel, Here is what TJs think of XJs.