Seeing that XOC has a lot of engineers out there I thought I would run this question by you guys and see what everyone thinks. I am about to graduate college in August with my B.S. in Mechanical Engineering. Currently I work for a company as an assistant engineer. I pretty much do all there 3D design work in Autodesk Inventor. I believe I have maxed out at this company, both in skills (it's easy design work) and in salary. But here is my situation:

I have two job offers sitting at my table right now:

The first job is doing design work in Autodesk Inventor for automation controls. I would basically be designing controls to go along with CNC work stations. The company is a very small company (20 people or so) with a basic 401k, health care, etc... (pays about 8k more then what I am making now)

The second job is quality control with a very large company. The company offers an awesome 401k, pension (retire from the company at 55 with 64% of my final pay), a great health care plan and job stability. Once in the company I have the choice to move around in any of the other departments (pays about 15k more then what I am making now).

I don't know what the better choice is. I really enjoy working with inventor and can see myself really enjoying the first job. I would be doing a lot of design work, getting my hands dirty every once in a while, and using the skills I have gained over the past 3 years with working in Inventor. I enjoy being someone in a company and not just another number. But I wouldn't have the same job security at company 1 as I would with company 2. I would also lose out on all the other benefits, like the pension and great health care. I am not a big fan of quality control but like I said once I am in there for a few years I can move around if I want. I am 23 years old and pretty much at a loss of what to do. Do I do what I enjoy? Or do what makes sense for my future? Any insight would be helpful.

Go with the small company, imo. Heres why:
1. With small companies you don't feel like you are number
2. Small companies you have more room to grow
3. You are never going to work for the large company forever, most engineers are out after two years (so sweet retirement packages don't matter)
4. Money isn't everything.

Let me relate my story, it may help, may not. Mining engineer out June 2005. I had four offers, differing greatly in money and location. I picked the small company, which also paid the least, but had the best location.

I took the position as second in control of this small subsidiary of a parent Canadian company; we have grown from five employees to 25 in two years. There are times when I run this mine, alone, for up to a month - this is unheard of for someone my age, out under two years. I have also learned so much, because the oppurtunity is there (where it might not be at a large company).

Headhunters continue to come after both myself and my boss - I got an offer two months ago to run a mine in UT (just utside of Moab damnit), with twice the salary and even more benies. I didn't take it - I have more of a chance to grow here. I have a real chance of taking over a company with 25 employees, making over a million dollars a year, in the next year, which I helped start from nearly nothing. Insane if you ask me; I hope I will be ready for it.

Either way, you are gunna work 50+ (at least) hours per week, doing shit jobs to start - ah, the fate of junior engineers. Put in the time, and the work, and someday get out of engineering and into manamgent and then make a bunch of money.

Good Lord, I agree with Brandon.

I'm a Quality Engineer, and I Definately say smaller company...I've worked for a couple corporate companines... They may say you're gonna get all that stuff, but they will fire you a week before retirement, orrr pack up and move it Mexico...i'm at a family owned business now, and it's SOOO much better, I even drive 80 mile round trip a day.

Thanks for the post Branden. My thoughts have been along those lines too. I think that I would enjoy the first job better. It's just that when talking about this with family they all tell me to go with the 2nd one even though it's not exactly what I want to do.

Disclaimer: I'm NOT an engineer, but hopefully my thoughts will be helpful to you. I'm only chiming in because I love what I do for a living, and I can't say that my first job out of college gave me this feeling.

Remember this, you're 23 (my age) you've got a long working life ahead of you! Right now I'd seriously consider the following attributes of the working world.

1. Money - Student loans, cost of living, lifestyle, etc... let's face it, life is expensive!! When you graduate you'll have a lot of financial decisions to make. Money is great and it can buy you a lot of shiny things, but remember what you'll have to sacrafice in order to obtain it. Does more money mean working longer hours? If so, how will this affect your social life?

2. Office Culture - What's your general impression of the people you'll work with? Do you think they'll value your opinion? Will you effectively be able to work with them in a team atmosphere? - Trust me, you can't please everyone but you deserve a voice and respect no matter where you work.

3. Long Term Benefits - 401k, health insurance, company vehicle, vacation time, etc. These go a long way! The less bills you have the better. This isn't a golden ticket by any means because the IRS will have their hands in your pocket, but at least you won't see so many bills!

4. Company Stability - There's an accounting principle called "the going concern." Stated briefly this means a company is in business to continue doing business tomorrow. Do you believe based upon your research you'll have a job there tomorrow? Risk is very important, but weigh out how much of it you can tollerate.

Look on the bright side, you're about to obtain a highly respected degree. I'm a huge fan of engineers because I rely on them everyday. If you find that your first job isn't your cup of tea, then move on! It's all about marketability and my friend you've probably got it! While I don't encourage job hopping, I do encourage making informed decisions and relying on your instincts. You'll eventually find where you belong!

Good luck!!

Think of your career as building a resume towards your dream job....what do you want it to say, when you apply for that dream job?

More great replies.

BluMerle:
1. Money: Right now money is not a huge issue but it is still an issue. My bills currently include my car (any expenses that go along with that), my insurance, and my cell phone. I am lucky enough to have parents who paid for my college. My big hobby right now is skydiving, which pretty much takes away all the money thats left over. The biggest issue with money is moving out of my house. I am currently in a position that I will be able to take an apartment for $500/mo with everything included (including cable). Anyone who lives on LI knows how much of a great deal that is.

2. I work very well with others and that includes school and work. I can work with anyone.

3. This is the biggest issue I think I have in my head. The 2nd company is a very large company to which I know they will not be moving anywhere (they can't, it's just not possible). I really doubt any other company can compare to there 401k options, pension plan, and healthcare benefits. My brother in-law works for this company too and he has been pushing me towards it also. The position I would be taking is a management type position and like I said I can move around in the company.

4. I believe the first company has potential to grow. The reason they want to hire me is because they believe they will be able to grow with my help. But none of that is definite. They are small enough to feel the squeeze of losing a project or two. The 2nd company is the definition of job security. Once your in there you are pretty good for life.

I know I would enjoy working at the 1st company. They could really help me fatten up my resume. The stuff they do really interest me. I don't know if I would enjoy working at the 2nd company, I may or may not. But with them if I do enjoy it I wouldn't have to worry about my resume for a long time. The 2nd company is also one of those companies where if they do give you a chance for a job and you don't take it you may never get another chance. Because of there benefits etc... it is a very competitive job to get. It often takes them 4-6 months to get back to you about your resume, they got back to me in 3 weeks (mostly because I went to a job fair and talked to the head of the department first hand).

You're 23. Take the job you'll enjoy most.

Do you want to stay at the same company for the rest of your career? I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but at your age looking at what's best for retirement isn't always the best thing to do. You've got a lot of living to do before that time, and a lot of things will change between now and then.

Hell, a few years down the road you may decide that you'd be a lot happier in another career, quite a few people do. You might dismiss that today, but sometimes you get the opportunity to try something else that really is more exciting to you.

It's not bad to start planning for retirement at your age, but don't focus on it. It's a long way away, you've got some time.

Another thing is, if this is a large company, maybe that job or something else will be there in a few years if the one you think would be more enjoyable doesn't totally pan out.

You're basically in good shape regardless of any decision you make.

There is a lot of good advice here. But... something to think about.

You are only 23. You may want to take the job with the most money. Here's why...

-- Save and make as much friggin money as you can right now when you are young. Buy a house and some property as fast as you can afford it. Buy real estate while you are young and invest in your own future wealth.

-- The big company may look good on your resume. Nothing says you have to work there forever. Working there for a while could set you up for a much better dream job down the road.

-- You are 23 and the big company has a better chance of having a lot more nice hotties working there.

Just a few thoughts to think about...

Well i'm 26 now, and when I was 23 I took the job with the bigger company for more $$$....then they sold the company for $$$ then that company moved to Mexico because of $$$....which guess what...left me with no $$$ just a shitty compensation package and long fucking hours to help relocate my job to Mexico... I say take the more stable job, even it's less money, you can work your way up in a small company if you're a good worker.

Good points from madman too, though.

About the hotties?

yep

Take the small company job. You'll thank yourself later because what good is more money if you hate getting up every weekday. You'll build on your career soon enough. As for the benefits, they will be more valuable to you as you get older. I'm 24 now and having invested in my 401(k) for a couple years gives me a head start on retirement savings, but the benefits will really kick in with medical and such for a whole family rather that just myself. Do what you want now while you can and if it doesn't work out you can always look elsewhere before you put down too many roots. Besides, unless you're planning on working 30 years for a single company (less than 1 in 2 people in current engineering roles have worked for the same company for 5+ years), the benefit perk won't be that relevant. Do what you love and you will have a happier life because of it.

ETA: The hottie situation is moot in engineering. Pretty soon you'll be dying to go back for your Master's just to get back on campus for nothing more than the scenery.

I am an IT engineer, so please take my advice with a grain of salt as IT is a bit different in terms of employment.

Money may not mean a lot once you get past a certain yearly salary. I am in a place where I'd give up 10% of what I currently make in order to get more vacation. 10% of my paychecks is a good amount of money too...

Retirement benefits are good, but you're only 23. Start saving early and remember that there are other choices besides 401K. While 401K is the best, consider Roth IRA if the plan provided by the company sucks. I can tell you that you will not be working for the same company until you're 60. In IT if you don't have a new job every 5-7 years you're setting yourself up for unemployment benefits. I don't know if mechanical engineering is different. If you start saving now, you should be all set.

Life is too freaking short to get caught up in a daily routine of a large company. Look for the atmosphere and a career path. Do you want to invent things or be a pencil pusher? Do you like to do things that mean something to you or do you just want a nice title? How do the offers differ in terms of time off? I would be hard pressed to take any job that offers fewer than 3 weeks of paid vacation time.

Finally, remember that nothing that you do now will matter in 50 years. Well, unless you're about to figure out how to cure cancer or AIDS. Find a job that allows you to make a living and enjoy the life to its fullest. The rest is just details

You'll never make as much money or have great benefits at a small company - but you'll like you job a lot more.

Well you're about the same age as my older kids, so I'll tell you what I've told them. Very simple advice:
Do what you love and the rest takes care of itself.
I did and though serverly disappointing my parents at the time, life has been good, No regrets.

i'm a civil engineer who graduated almost a year ago so i know what you're going through. although it was within the same company, i had 2 choices. first choice was working 5 miles away from my house at the corporate headquarters with about 150 people working there. second choice was to go back to a satellite office where i interned which has 8 people and is 35 miles from my house. so it's kind of like big vs small company. i ended up taking the job at the small office because i knew i would get exposure to so many more things than i would at the big office. i talk to some friends at the main office and i'm doing things that they won't be doing for 5 more years probably. a lot of times if you work for a big company they will find something you are good at and that is all you will do.

i say go with the small company. you will get much more exposure to different things and learn a lot more. yea, it sucks driving 70 miles a day compared to 10 miles, but i think it's worth it.

Wow. There's an awful lot of small-timers here...

I say go with the larger company, for now.

Couple of reasons why:

1) Small mechanical companies have virtually NO money for R&D. They typically find a niche, and they stay there.

2) The bigger company is a resume builder, nothing more, unless you find something there you really like. You'll make more pay in short term, which may allow you to take a lesser paying job later on in life, to do what you "really want" to do.

3) You say you've already "maxed" out where you currently work; another mom & pop shop is going to have the same effect for you. It'll be fun for a while, then you're going to feel like you've got nothing more you can learn from them.

4) Get to a larger firm that can afford real 3D modeling software, like Solidworks. Autodesk Inventor is a fairly archaic program that can only compete with the better 3D programs out there because it's cheaper. Hence the reason the place you're at right now, and the small place you have the offer from, use it. Go with a larger firm, so you can learn new software on bigger jobs. It'll help you be able to handle the smaller ones later on.

5) Never, ever, ever underestimate the benefits of a great health plan. I'm 28, and two years ago I got kidney stones completely out of the blue. Shiite happens. Make sure you've got great health insurance before it does... If I hadn't been with my company with great benefits, I can't imagine how much that would have cost. All I know is everytime I went to the doctor's office, they ordered 2 CT scans at $3k apeice, but with my insurance plan, I paid $0 out of pocket for 'em.

6) Don't look at the larger firm as the place you're going to stay forever for retirement. It ain't gonna' happen... Virtually noone stays at the same company anymore, ESPECIALLY engineers. We get bored too easily. But build the resume, now, so when you do get bored, you'll be able to put your name out there for pretty much anything.

Sorry, guys. I just don't believe in the small business for a new graduate anymore. I worked at several; the problem with small businesses is they usually think small. And if you have aspirations for ANYTHING other than what mom or pop have in mind, you spend all your time frustrated.

I currently work at a firm that has almost 4,000 employees, of which over 3,000 are engineers, architects, and planners. (Civil Engineering) I wouldn't go back to the little firms I've worked for in the past if you paid me a million a year. It just wasn't worth the frustration of working with small-minded people.

Things I've learned from my various employers, from out of college to now:

1. Smallish company, 50-ish employees, IBM Business Partner. I worked in a small and new division that was phased out after 4 years. Instead of moving into their mainstream business (mid-size and mainframe software), I moved on.

2. Very small company, four people. Tried to grow too fast, not enough benefits, saw the writing on the wall and started hunting for jobs. Place closed down a month after I left.

3. Mid-size startup auto parts chain. Funded by Canadian Tire, but a U.S. operation. Our survival depended on CT's management decisions each year on profitability. After three years, they shut down and sent everyone away with admittedly a good severance package.

4. Small company, breaking into the Internet Service Provider business. Holdover job to at least have some income after #3 laid me off. Left just as their ISP business zoomed. Sold out to another company, who laid off most of my former co-workers.

5. Very large company with lots of benefits. Ended up traveling quite a bit. Pay raises were on a yearly, fixed basis. Each department got a payroll budget that was essentially 4% to 6% larger than the year before which meant that, on average, everyone got a cost-of-living raise each year, regardless of enthusiasm or dedication. Quickly got bored with that.

6. Current position. Initially a small company, now a mid-size company. I was the sole IT guy at first. Owner of the company is passionate about anything he wants to accomplish. Owner set up a revolutionary 401k program in which the company can, at its discretion, contribute up to 20% of your salary to your fund. I have gotten that maximum contribution each of the last two years.

I enjoy my work (as a senior software engineer). I hate managing people, and the owner realizes that if your talents are in programming instead of management, salary shouldn't depend on your willingness to "advance" into management. I've been there 9 years now and my current salary is almost 250% of where I started 9 years ago.

Conclusion: If you can find the right small company, with an owner that is passionate about the business and always has new ideas for direction and new markets, you might just luck out and help the company grow (along with your bank account). There are a lot of small companies that stagnate or just don't make it (think the dot-com boom/bust).

The last thing I would depend on, regardless of the size of the company and how long it has been in business, is a pension plan (think Enron). My Dad passed away early in life (mid-50's), leaving my Mom with his pension from working in a steel mill. Once the mill sold out to a foreign company, the pension dried up, leaving my Mom primarily on Social Security and interest from life insurance proceeds.

Definitely go with the design job. Q/C might be a good move later in your career, but it is the kiss of death at this stage. It is very important for you to spend at least a few years "getting your hands dirty" technically so you you will have more career options in the long run.

Good luck!

It's been very interesting to read all these responses. Let me pitch in my 2 cents. I am a 50 year old software industry guy, and so comparisons to the engineering discipline might not be apples to apples. But here goes...

- while it is refreshing for a 23 y.o. to be interested in retirement benefits you should realize the chances of you accruing 30 years with any single employer is quite slim. I have gone through several employers during my career and have amassed a good nest egg through investments, an IRA account, and multiple 401K plans. Bottom line: you can roll your own retirement plan.

- take a job which gives you the most bankable experience, regardless of the size of the company. You want this job to be a stepping stone to better things down the road.

- all things being equal, working for a smaller company is usually a lot more fun than working for a large company .. but of course it is more risky. I've worked for start ups that have gone bust. But the work I did for those firms have given me tremendous experience.

I work for a very large company now. At my age the security of this firm is very important to me. But I am at the latter years of my employment life and you are just starting.

Good luck.

_Lazza

Great post. Bankable experience is the single most important thing for a young engineer. That is what will give career flexibility in the future.

Hotties at an engineering company???

Maybe in the accounting depts.