After seeing a few of the deleted threads in this forum, I think it is useful to address the idea of discussing club's affairs online, in this forum.

In one thread, now gone, a few days ago, I saw some points brought up that I thought were valid and should be addressed for the benefit of everyone in the club. I was going to address a few myself, but the thread was gone before I could do so. I also noticed that some people did not think we should have any sort of discussion online and only keep it to in-person club meetings. As of now, I do not feel comfortable with discussing any of those topics that I thought to address.

Without discussing the thread that prompted me to write, I would like to address the topic and hear what everyone has to say. Please, do not try to rehash what already happened, eventually I would like to address some of my concerns that came up, but not in this thread. So here is what I think:

MY PERSONAL OPINION
I think that this forum should be open to any and all discussions pertaining to this club without fear of being deleted, save for the foul language. I strongly believe that it will serve to improve this club and help it grow over time.
Some of the main reasons I think the forum should be open to any discussions:
1. It allows people that cannot always make it to the meetings (we have lots of those) to voice their opinion and not feel like all the decisions have been made for them.
2. Issues can be addressed earlier, rather than later, without having them grow unchecked overtime and boiling over into unrelated conflicts.
3. Allows more people to pitch their ideas/solutions, creating a larger contributing group
4. The above three points combine to allow the club to be a more cohesive group and allow us to achieve more as a group and individuals, be it a fun activities, earning money for the club or volunteering.

I understand there are challenges in making it work and some would argue that this is what we already have, but I disagree with that. The fact that a thread was deleted due to an escalation of verbal exchange is a sign that we have room to improve.

I have more to say on the topic, but would like to see everyone's opinions first. Thank you.

Good post karlover007.

The problem I see is that once in a while there is some drama incited by an indivdual to which the masses react. That is bascially what happened, IMO.

As a public forum, we do need to be conscious of our image to new AND old members that "lurk" without posting. If I saw some of the BS posts as a guy that maybe just got a Nissan & wants to wheel, I MAY be turned off. This was a valid point brought to me by another member.

I tend to be of the mind, however to have it all out wherever, whenever...

Like I have said before: Everyone here should have my phone number. If something you posted got taken the wrong way or you need some explanation, have an idea, ANYTHING...I AM AVAILABLE TO CALL!

FWIW: When it takes 3 phone calls to get 1 call back from someone and I return their 1 call 2 more times with no answer, there is not much I can do to help said individual with issues about AZXC.

Comes down to this for me: I have some great friends that I have made through this club. All I want to do is hang out with them, make new friends, shoot the shit, and go wheeling.

Mikhail, We as a Club, have Official Meetings where club business is determined. Not on the Forum.

We as a Club, utilize Carlton's XOC as a tool to let others know about the club and our events that are determined at the Meetings. It cannot substitute for our meetings.

I understand the frustration of some, I feel my own at times, but we don't need people pooing on the Club in the Forum. They can bring any greivance to a meeting to discuss. Accusations will not be addressed on the Forum as it is an inappropriate place to make/hear/vote on them or the course of action.

Understand that we have a duty as a Club to make sure new people don't get the wrong impression of our Club from the Forum. We are moderators for this part of XOC and reserve the right to delete comments any time.

Thanks for understanding.
Adam

I second that!

Well said Adam. Thank you. And thank you Mikhail for your concern and bringing it up in a constructive manner.

Thank you for your responses.

Tim, I agree with you on the whenever/wherever, although I would probably word it differently

Adam, unfortunately, I do not see the main points in my post being addressed. I do see a projection of some of your own frustrations with some of the discussions, but it has little to do with the broader topic that I am raising here.

I did not suggest or imply that the forum would replace our meetings. I am well aware of the benefits of face to face discussions. However, with distance and time being constraints, especially with higher gas prices and our meetings now being bi-monthly, I think we need to be able to discuss club affairs outside of the meetings.

As far as I can see in the rules for these forums, there is nothing limiting us as far as discussions topic go. Of course, rudeness and personal attacks do not count as valid topics or types of messages.

I think that as a Club, our first goal is to be a cohesive group that can figure out our differences in constructive manner. Having done that, giving the right impression is not difficult. Whether online, in the forums, or in person, just because there might be some individuals that cause problems, doesn't mean that it represents the whole group. Any observer will easily catch on to that and the only problem that can occur is when the group copies the individual in the way it reacts.

I am aware that you are one of the mods and I understand the implication that topics can be deleted at any time as "undesirable." If that is the policy, I would highly recommend creating a sticky addressing which topics can and cannot be discussed. I am against limiting our topics, but at the very least there will be clarity.

I don't think it is appropriate to discuss Official Club buisness online period.

Xcursions and get togethers that aren't "Official" Events are fine, that's others buisness and should not have bearing on the Club.

I guess it's a topic for the next Meeting.

See ya there.

(cough)
http://www.azxterraclub.com/bylaws.htm

No pavement, no problem. Spend more time off of the pavement.

i guess i missed it ?
Let me know if there is a problem with me being somewhat involved on here since i dont own an x

I do kind of have to side with karlover007 to a point. The rules for forum use has not been limited. All people are not the same, nor do they have the same views, that may not always be recognized immediately on posting, hence some end up getting flamed for their comments or positions on a subject. I have to agree that on reviewing other Xterra forums, including XOC, generalized opinions have rarely been made about the clubs themselves. Usually it's been recognized against an individual.

Most of you are too new to this site, but I can think of one club or rather one individual right off the top of my head that ran into issues and progressed into bickering on forum, meetings and xcursions and then poured out onto the other Xterra forums, all by one individual. This was over a year ago, we certainly don't need that. Most unfavorable comments have been directed through PMs or when rating a member.

I have no problem with schooling an individual on ettiqutte or basing my point of view, nor do I mind being schooled myself, it's a learning experience and definately of what not to express. I consider this a tool to learn from and hope that others reciprocate. Thick skin. That being said, I do however support deleting threads if it continued into a colorful vocabulary contest only meant to demean anyone.

Too much thread deletions and delay of discussions may bring up a deeper issue at meetings or during xcursions where people enter heated debates, only to separate the club, we don't want to destroy the integrity of the club. Sometimes people just want to vent, holding in can intensify that.

I do feel that it's better for new or potential members to see what has been discussed, even if it gets a little heated, the reality of our differences.

OK, so it was long winded, but then I'm always full of hot air!

How about we ask Carlton to make a members only section for AZXC? or even better idea, how about we use official business in the n4w forum?
I have to agree wit Mikhail.

As you may know i am not a member of the club yet and have only been around a short time. Speaking from an outsiders perspective the forums should be as real as possible which i think includes working out small differences. If there are problems under the surface new or perspective members will be exposed to them eventually. I club that is the same in person as there forums is much better than a club that sweeps there differences under a rug. Although i think there is a point where it goes from a constructive discussion to name calling which should be and i assume already is prohibited.

Per the by-laws that are currently in force, meetings are to be held. Be there so you can vote and have a say in any changes that may occur, like the decision to temporarily have them bi-monthly.

Amen to that, Mud.

Also, Conundrum is correct - attend meetings, that is where a good deal of discussion is heard and where ALL voting takes place. Nothing is changed, implemented, or spent unitl presented and voted upon; but you gotta be there to know that, I guess.

I don't think anyone here questioned whether meetings are to be held or not. I intend on coming, work permitting.

You just want them held online and in an open forum? That's not how it's setup, nor should be IMHO.

Hope to see you there.
Adam

What I think he meant was that some issues that are usually discussed at meeting, if extremely relevant should have the chance of being discussed on the forum. Am I right Karlover?

Mikhail, you can discuss anything you want within the realm of civility, however anything that is official that needs a yea or nea will and can only be voted for/against in person, per our existing by-laws.

I'm not an officer to the Club anymore, not sure if you knew that. So talking to me about it is moot. I have my opinion, that is all.

Adam, I agree with voting to be done at the meetings, no issues with that at all.

I do know you are not an officer, however you are one of the moderators in this forum. I saw valid discussion points disappear in this forum just because someone else responded to them badly. That left me with impression that club discussions are heavily moderated into nonexistence, hence my bringing up the whole topic. I do understand your opinion, but I am making sure that it is understood where I am coming from and what I am trying to achieve as well. Thank you for listening, errr... reading.

Personally the last thread that was controversial that I deleted was when Rog resigned as secretary. Not to bring that up again as we all understood why, just not why it had to be done for all the world to see. I only deleted it when Mark asked it to be done and I agreed.

Other than that, I will only cleanup this forum so Carlton doesn't have to.

If you think there is an issue, by all means, bring it up at the meeting where it can be discussed properly, by Members, not the World and Voted on Accordingly.

Nothing that was in that ASU debacle was pertinent to the Event itself, so I agree it should have been deleted and I myself was willing to let it move forward to resolution, but it was deleted before it could be. However Tim is the President that was duely (sp) elected and can make that decision as he sees fit, until replaced.

I think all our Officers are doing an outstanding job right now and appreciate their effort and sacrifice. We are a bunch of very different people that have a similar interest that we share, some of us have become very good friends over the years and some have left for various reasons. Meetings allow us to share our opinions and vote by quorum on the actions required. You can't do that on the internet as it is now.

Do I think we should be an internet only club? No. Although it is difficult for me to make every meeting and not to mention I don't feel as though I have to, but I try, as well as others. Especially those that live really far away. That's very cool that they come out to see us.

Have a good weekend everyone!

's

If we are going to complain why are we not complaining to nissan about the Gen 2 and the problems we are haveing or the gen 1 being under powered !
I joined the club to Wheel meet new people and see what our rigs can do or not do!
it seems like that warm fuzzy feeling is fadeing.

I got warm fuzzy's for ya Onix. Are we still on for the 7th and the wiring fiasco?

X2