Hello Guys/Gals-after a day of running to various lumber mills to get quotes for my deck, resulting in a huge headache for me-I think I finally found a reliable business to "assist" me on my Xterra lift aspirations. I will go on record and say I know nothing about modding my X. I rely on this forum for my direct answers to my questions as well as what I can digest from my own searches. I just moved to North Western Nevada-so I have no mechanic contacts. I was turned onto Shaffer's Offroad. During the course of my conversation about installation charges for a 3" suspension lift (either SLP or Calmini), I brought up the PML question. I was curious if there is any adverse affects to using a PML. I was told that the front end gets very, very stiff and harsh. That there is tremendous strain put on front end suspension parts. That steering linkage gets put into "extreme" angles. That the money I save in the short run with a PML is offset by the replacement of various parts when they take an eventual dump. So go with a 3" lift and avoid the PML. Now I have read tons of entries here that there are no real problems with the PML if done right. This shop has nothing to gain by steering me towards a 3 inch lift. In fact, they told me that they would pay the same price as me if I got a SLR or Calmini package. So what are your thoughts. Yes-I did a search. But I would like some fresh input. And as always, I send a virtual Guinness to those who respond.

Well, Joe... there are tons of people on here who are running or have ran the PML at some point. Over the two years that I have been on here I'm yet to see a post regarding a PML problem secifically.

A few things:

1. I didn't notice the front end being a whole lot stiffer after cranking the bars. Not at all. I'd say if there was change, it was small enough for me not to notice, and I'm the type that notices anything different about my truck all the time.

2. 1.5 inches of lift on the front is not enough to put the steering or the suspension components into an extreme enough angle to cause issues. Wheeling will cause part to wear and wheeling with a PML does result in the center link wear. There are options to rememdy that, such as after market center links. They are not too expesive either.

Wheeling with a 3 inch susp lift will cause even more wear on the steering than a PML, that's why people recommend a steering upgrade with a 3 inch susp. lift. That's another $500 in just parts, unless you can find someone on here selling it used.

I've had my PML for almost 2 years not and no issues. My center link is getting worn now and I'm getting an after market one from L&P. I do wheel my truck, so that's expected.

Bottom line is, I would get the PML now and then see whether you want to go with a full SL. All the parts that you get for the PML are reusable as part of the full lift because you're just buying the shackles, in reality.

Run the PML for a little and see whether it works for you; see whether you actually need more lift, to justify spending $1500 or so (parts alone). If money is no object, then get the 3" SL right away. Yet, you may not need it to begin with.

AHTOXA (Tony) - thank you for: 1-not hammering me with that "newb" crap, 2-that "do a search" crap, 3-giving an honest and well thought response even though it most likely has been answered before many times. It's these kind of responses that make this forum fun. Yes-I have scoured this forum and have not seen any posts of ill affects or harsh ride. So it makes obvious sense to go with the PML. I remember reading some where that if one does not go crazy with the front torque bars (I think 6 full turns?), then there is really nothing to worry. In my mind, cash is not a issue, but that is just not reality. In a prior post, one that you participated in, I mentioned my desire to get the Shrock f/r bumpers and sliders. A couple of folks mentioned that the added weight may not be a issue but a PML might be needed. I take my truck, kids, wife, dogs off roading and gently beat the snot out of tthre truck. So all and all, the PML makes the most sense. From a cost issue, self install isuue and other reasons you mentioned. I'm just a tad paranoid about screwing my truck up and being forced to go with the 3SL and the added installation costs, etc. As always, thank you and I send you a virtual Guinness pint. Cheers.

Joe

PS

The Guinness thing. In all the forums I participate in, I have always thanked responders with a virtual pint or binger. This is the only site that has an actual pint drinking gremlin. That's so cool. LOL.

Joe

I ran a PML for some time with no issues. I did put my centerlink down the road of no return, but that was from off-roading. Regardless of which lift you choose, remember that you'll also need an alignment when you're done.

One thing, doing the PML is very straightforward and is easily accomplished with basic hand tools in just a few hours -- and that's if you're taking your time. I know the notion of "lifting my truck" sounds like a lot, in this case it really is easier than you might believe and then you can take pride in knowing that you did the job yourself.

If you want to consider doing it yourself, there are several threads here outlining the process or just PM me and I'll send you some info.

If you do end up taking it somewhere, be sure to let them know that you've done your homework and know that it's a quick, straightforward process so they don't take you for a ride on the labor costs.

Hope this helps.

If Shaffer's Offroad tells you that painting your truck purple will make it perform better and only wearing a pink tu tu behind the wheel will make you a better driver, paint your truck purple and start tu tu shopping. They only know about everything to know about what they are taking about.

That being said, they are 100% right.

It is intersting how the PML became the PML in Xterraland. People have been doing this to Chevy trucks and Ford rangers and every other torsion bar equipped vehicle for years. 50% of the PML isn't really a lift at all. It's merely adjusing your torsion bars beyond the factory preload settings to raise the ride height of the front end. By doing this you are reducing the distance between the bumpstops and the upper controll arms. By reducing this distance, you are by design limiting the amount of bump travel your vehicle has. Which is why almost every single offroading board on the internet besides this one doesn't recommend it.

By reduced bump travel, think about going over a rock, or a speedbump. As you are at the highest point of the object the tire compresses into the wheelwell. The more distance the tire has to compress, the less likely that you will feel the jarring motion of the bump stops hitting the upper arm.

As an additional result of the "PML" is that you are putting more leverage on the upper arm since as I said you are going beyond the factory preload setting. This is also why you have to get an allignment since you have now altered the tow (and possibly camber) settings by adding that leverage. How much leverage depends on how ambitious your adjustment is. Since most people as part of the "PML" add additional height to the rear end, many over adjust.

Problems associated with that leverage also include the premature wear on the steering linkage as mentioned. Again, you have exceeded the factory settings on those points on the center link, often on the idler arm side so they are more prone to premature wear.

So why get an actual "lift?"

To compensate for this adjustment companies such as SLR, Calmini and AC have produced an upper controll arm that was designed to take the adjustments into consideration, provide for more correct allignment and take some of the tension of leverage off of the steering linkage. Along with this the SLR arms were designed to be a bit longer and have a greater distance between the upper arm and the bumpstop so that additional wheel travel is attained at full ride height.

They still are not a perfect solution by any stretch but they do allow your stock parts to last a little longer and you will be able to safely get more "lift" for your torsion bar adjustment.

In the desire of greater longevity, the various steering packages are offered. I cannot speak on the calmini since I have never owned the kit, but the design of the SLR package allows the centerlink to A) last longer in it's aftermarket form and B) to be rebuildable when wear does happen inexpensively.

I can say that without a doubt, the nature of my "lift" puts more leverage on the steering componenets than anyone elses Xterra in the world and in almost two years we have only had to have one service and it was a $40 part.

The botom line is that it's easy to "lift" the vehicle. The real trick is to have your vehicle at the ride height you desire for all of its benefits along with longevity of the related parts and retaining proper allignment and performance.

Bobby B. - thanks for the info and the PM offer. I book marked what I found here. But I would not pass up personal info. So get ready for a PM. I'll be gentle. It makes so much sense to do a PML. I'm just a tad paranoid. Side affects of too much spleefing. LOL.

socalpunx - who told you about my pink tu tu. It's my official Guinness Drinking tu tu when I need to get in touch with my feminine side. With that said. Thank you for the very detailed response and as well not hammering me. Except for the tu tu thing (who told you). What my goal is: Raise the truck just high enough that I will be compensated for the extra weight of the after market sliders and f/r bumper. I did put the larger skins on, so there is occasional rubbing. So I need to address that as well. I want to do the 3SL later as well as the steering up grades in do time. This does bring up a question. I'm a bit confused how torquing up the torsion bars puts additional stress on the center link/steering components. Also-what is the purpose of the idler arm?

As always, cheers guys. I think I'll have one now myself. The kids and wife are tucked in to bed.