I'm sure by now everyone is aware that in February, 2009 the US Government has mandated that all OTA (Over the Air) analog broadcast television signals will be discontinued and all major broadcast stations will only be transmitting and broadcasting digital television signals (some low power stations are not included in this mandate).

Digital signals have already been broadcast for a number of years. I was always aware that the quality of the OTA digital and HDTV signals were superior to those piped in via cable TV. The cable TV signals have the problem of being reamplified so many times and they are compressed, and that sometimes leads to problems at the TV set that are noticeable to many people. The HDTV compression is at least noticeable when compared to a good quality OTA signal.

For the purpose of this thread, I'm not really concerned solely with HDTV OTA broadcasts. Just standard DTV broadcast transmission in general.

Is anyone using OTA digital for their TV viewing... at least for local channels? If so, what type of antenna are you using?

I've noticed that an OTA antenna that works great in analog can be problematic for some digital broadcasts. You'll get many stations perfect, but then others just fall off the "digital cliff". Not enough signal. Even if the tuner gives you a lock, it can fall in and out making that station unwatchable. That includes some so-called high gain UHF/VHF combo antennas.

It sometimes comes down to the fact that most stations are broadcasting their digital signals on UHF. Some at low power. At least temporarily for now until the conversion. The UHF band isn't good enough on a lot of home roof antennas.

I built one of those homemade DTV/HDTV "bow tie" antennas that have been discussed on the internet and to my surprise, they work fucking great. The signal levels on some channels are maxed out and even on some problematic channels, the signal level is far better than a standard /UHF/VHF antenna.

The homemade antennas are UHF antennas, but can also pick up good quality VHF depending on your range to the transmission towers.

My parents have never been interested in cable TV and have always been satisfied with their OTA stations. I tried the homemade antenna at their house and was amazed at the results. Two stations were problematic with line loss and going through a splitter, but I think the problem can be overcome. (Their analog TV has always been pretty good. Analog picks up the two stations in question with a good picture where digital cannot. That includes using both their antenna and the home made UHF antenna).

I think a lot of people may be screwed after the switchover to digital in 2009. Antenna installs for homeowners may become a viable business once again.

I tried the home made antenna at my house (I live at a high elevation) and I was blown away at the number of stations I could pick up.

Anyone been experimenting with this stuff?

I can easily see that a lot of people are going to be in trouble once the conversion takes place. I've seen some people in government hearings claiming that if people get their channels over the air now, they won't have any problems after the conversion..... even with a converter box. That is not true.

A lot of people getting TV over the air are going to be mad. What I can see so far... many are going to need new antennas..... or subscribe to cable... which they never cared to do in the first place.

The homemade antenna looks something like this....



You can build it better than that.

It is similar to a Channel Master 4221 or a DB4.....



The homemade antenna project costs you like $5.00. Maybe less if you have the materials lying around. It gives you an idea if an actual antenna purchase will work.

Some links on building a cheap antenna....

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

That guy's concept is good, but it can be improved and made better and lighter.

Users on the following boards expand on the idea and even offer other concepts, designs, and links...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798265

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=37159

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=81982

DirecTV.

I hear you bro.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who don't want to pay for TV. Especially if they are getting the regular network channels with a good picture.

Maybe the free satellite market will take off. (But then again, that requires some computer literacy to get it working)....

I wonder if you made an array of say 4 of those suckers and pointed them in 4 directions, if you would pick up the bad channels from another transmitter or somethin. This is pretty cool - thanks NY. Although I'm one of the dumbasses who pays $150 a month for Cable TV & Internet, then downloads all the TV shows he misses from the net anyway! lol. Could probably totally do away with TV and just download the shows I want to watch - so many people uploading TV shows to Newsgroups etc. these days. In Hi Def too.

I used to be a huge DirecTV fan, even given the fact that you lose the signal when it rains. In areas where very severe weather is a fact of life, that means you lose your TV signal at exactly the time you need it most. That's in addition to the shows you miss in part or in full because it happens to be raining when you want to watch or record them.

But the biggest factor for me has been the truly startling decline in DirecTV's customer service and the horrible quality of their DVR equipment. Between the two, it's a nightmare, and at the exact moment my contract expires in August I will be changing to a yet-to-be-determined alternative.

Interesting read there Madman!

Oh and yeah for Rinky because I'm no longer the only dumbass who pays $150 a month.

Btw.. didn't Dick Cheney have a hand in making the whole broadcast switch?

For local channels, you're not going to get better than an OTA antenna. While the satellite companies aren't even close to as bad as the cable companies, they still compress the signal.

Only FIOS claims they don't.

You could set up an array but you have to be careful when constructing an array of antennas. There is supposed to be a proper way to do it, otherwise you could wind up with canceling each other out. Maybe even multipath problems.

You might find the answers at these sites...

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

http://www.cebik.com/radio.html

You could also try building a 4 bay or an 8 bay bow tie antenna without a reflector. You can pick up some far away stations even without the reflector and it will work in an omnidirectional manner. To a point.

With the antenna I set up for my parents, they are receiving an additional CBS channel all the way from Philadelphia. That is with a straight 4 bay bow tie antenna with no reflector and mounted in the attic.

To find out what stations are available in your area check the following sites....

http://tvfool.com/

http://antennaweb.org/

Here is an example of the the channels in the area I was concerned about...

What's your fucking point, Madman? Do you have to bitch and moan about every fucking change in society in the past 40+ years? Go build yourself a fucking fire in a goddamn cave and give up TV altogether for cripes sake. I'm surprised you even know what the fuck TV is, considering you're pretty much annoyingly complaining about every damn show that comes on, every news broadcast there is, and now, apparently even the manner in which it fucking comes into your goddamn cave.

Somebody grabe the goddamn popcorn. I'm drunk, and tire of Madman trying to start shit when there isn't shit to start. Madman, throw out your TV and grab a fucking mariannette by the ass and puppet out your damn TV re-enactments for all I care. Or find a real damn controversy to talk about, instead of trying to make one up. The switch from analogue to digital has been known for a long damn time. If you don't want the government's $30 check to help you get your fucking TV stations, then don't take it. Light a fire in your cave and sing renditions of kumbaya already.

What the hell was the point in your original post, the start of this thread, anyways? Jesus christ...What, there isn't enough fucking controversy going on these days that you want to make some shit up yourself for the hell of it??



whooptiefuckingdooo... Too poor to have TV, not gonna' be a real driver of the US Economy in the first place. Fuck 'em. Probably don't bother to make it out of their house to vote, either, so double fuck 'em. Who cares about the last 10 goddamn people in the country that don't have cable/satellite?? Do you REALLY think there's a big population that don't have it that really want it??

Look. Hook up a stringline in your fucking cave, run it around to all the other cave dwellers, and pay $10 a month split between all you weird ass Y2K fanatics and get your cable... It'd only be $1 a month per person for cripes sake... Just sell some of your breastmilk each month, and you should be able to cover...

(where's the damn popcorn...)

Who said this thread was about stirring up shit about anything?

It was actually about passing along some useful info I stumbled upon. Can't see how you can see it otherwise.

Considering that you already admitted to being drunk, I'm going to assume that is the reason for your completely irrational rant. Maybe re-read the thread again when you are sober and you will realize what an asshole you are when you are drunk. It seems much more so than when you are sober.

While porsche's rant was funny as hell, and I'm always up for some Madman bashing... WTF? That was outta left field.

While my primary way of getting TV is AT&T U-verse (IPTV), I'm set up for OTA reception as well. I'm out in a suburb, so the signal strength certainly needs some help. I have a DB4 from Antennas Direct, and it works wonderfully. As soon as I saw Madman's home-made concoction, I instantly recognized the design. However, it is highly directional. For me, pointing it was relatively easy. Most of the stations are within a 90-degree arc of my location. I took the bearing to each tower, and then used the mean bearing to point my antenna towards. The DB4 can use a J-pipe mount just like a satellite dish, so I was able to re-use my old Dish network mount that was already on my roof.

The new "digital" signal (ATSC) uses a shorter wavelength in the UHF spectrum, whereas the older "analog" signal (NTSC) used the VHF spectrum. In general, the larger the wavelength, the more resilient the signal is. The ATSC frequencies are much more susceptible to loss from trees and tall objects (buildings) in your area. You will be the best results from placing your antenna with the best "view" of the towers possible. Line-of-sight is ideal, but not usually practical. Try to avoid nearby tall objects, and get it up as high as possible. The ATSC signal is much more difficult to receive than the old ones, and if you didn't need an antenna in the past, you may now. If you needed an antenna before, you will probably need a new one since the signal is on a different frequency.

If you have good signal strength, you will not get a higher-quality picture than over-the-air HD (ATSC). The bandwidth used by a full uncompressed HD signal is approximately 20Mbps, which is why almost all satellite and cable companies compress it. The format of the ATSC signal is MPEG-2 (as used in DVD Video discs @480p), which does not compress terribly well. Most sat/cable providers are using MPEG-4 variations to compress the signal and still working on the compression/quality ratio to find an acceptable balance for their customers. For example, my provider (AT&T U-verse) compresses the signal down to 6Mbps per HD stream, and the quality loss is noticeable on a 47" 1080p LCD panel. I had Dish Network previously, and the quality was much worse with them. U-verse does the best job I've seen so far, but it is still far frmo perfect. As bandwidth increases and compression algorithms evolve, the signal quality from cable/sat providers will slowly merge closer to Over-the-Air quality.

Exactly.