All -

I was hoping to put this off until the May meeting, but my conversation with Clyde yesterday precludes that eventuality.

TMTC wants to put port-a-pots at ALL campsites on Barnwell mountain. (Sanatation is the primary reason). As we have an adopted campsite, ours has been tagged for a said 'pot'. We would not be responsible for cleaning/emptying it; the contractors who empy the others would.

So what?

Well, here is the kicker. We would be responsible for half the monthly rent of the 'pot'. It is $35 a month, so we would be forking over $17.50/month, or $210/year.

What if we don't? Well, Clyde said if we do not agree to pay half the rent, we would be responsible for ALL of the rent, or we loose 'ownership' of the campsite. (Which I find funny. 'Hey, pay half the rent, or TMTC will boot you off and pay for all the rent ourselves.)

So, what we need is some open discussion here on what the SWXC wants to do. If a moderator could create a poll for us that would be awesome. We need to decide...

1. Yes, pay for half the rent and keep ownership of the campsite.
2. No, do not pay for half the rent, and loose ownership of the campsite


Also, as I was not Prez when we took ownership, does anybdy have any contracts or written 'anything' about the terms and conditions of the club having the site? It seems a little shady that we are being forced to pay for a service that I do not believe we ever agreed to receive. I also do not recall receiving anything from TMTC, on, or about, a vote that was made to put said 'pots' on the grounds. One would think the TMTC council would need member's permission before spending this kind of cash.

FWIW - I do not care if we pay or not. If it comes down to a tie breaker, I would lean towards keeping the site, but machs nichs to me.

Please speak up and share your thoughts. This is an open discussion for all SWXC members; if you go to Barnwell or not. It is your club dues we will be spending here if we keep the site.

Note: not spell or grammar checked.

s

I personally think that the entrance fees paid by the users of Barnwell Mountain should be sufficient to pay for any needed Porta-potties. Honestly, how m uch does it cost him to maintain the property, since the various clubs maintain their own trails, and he simply maintains the main roads and his personal buildings. I do not think that SWXC should have to pay anything additional.

I'm on the fence, too... it's cool to have a campsite with our name on it... but on the other hand the only benefit that I know of to having our own site is that we have priority for it - but:
1) How often is there someone else at the site when we go there
2) Would we really kick someone else out as we're entitled to do? Or would we just find another spot (I find the latter more likely).

... so I'm sorta leaning toward keeping it - but logically it doesn't really seem to make much sense to do so.

It might be interesting to ask the question "Who would be willing to donate extra $$ to keep the campsite?". I don't know that SWXC works this way - but it at least makes the answers more meaningful - it' a good way to evaluate how strongly people feel about it... for me - it's worth maybe $10 out of my pocket to keep it.

This is a bit of a surprise. If memory serves, we were originally "encouraged" to claim a campsite for our club, which we did, and have since put work into maintaining, adding to, and improving the area. It would be a shame to abandon the site simply because they want us to pay to improve it more (unless the john stinks up the area - there's not a lot of air flow through there), but it seems a little "slimy" to expect us to pay or get out. I know as a club, we are not up there as often as others, but we have put in our share of work (and money) toward making Barnwell a better area. If we have no choice, I'd say let's pay the fee, but I'd be interested to hear why we are not given other options. My $.03.

Ok... I just got back from my first trip to Barnwell and was very impressed... on this issue:

1. Where would the put it?
2. Should the cost be divided amongst all
members of the group?
3. How many members do we have and what would
be the additional cost?
4. If the "smell factor" came into play, would
Clyde be willing to accomodate?

It seems like if they put it back towards Angry Jeep, it wouldn't be too bothersome, and would actually come in pretty handy... I know I could have used it this morning! It seems to all boil down to cost... I'd be willing to spend a few extra dollars on membership to keep a campsite that I will hardly ever use... It seems to be a great site... But, I do agree that this whole issue kinda "stinks"...

Comes down to how much, I guess.

By the way, that area we have been using, the cleaing in the treea....is that part of our campsite? i thought it was a jeep site. just wondering

Jason Gr, you are correct, there are two camp sites. The SWXC part is up front with the trash can we cemented in, the back part where we were this weekend belongs to a Jeep club.

I am going to write the Prez of TMTC to see what gives about this decision, and I will also pass along all of your guy's questions.

s

Also, since it is being used by all of us, would a joint effort between SWXC and TNT be a better route to attack this from... remember the old saying, "two piggy banks is better than one"...

I think the big issue here is 'do we want to pay'. It is a generous offer to include TNT as co-owners, but we have the man power and funds to pay for the site. It just boils down to is this something we want to spend club money on.

I dunno, what does everyone else think about joint ownership of the SWXC site?

Is it possible to negotiate a deal where we'll pay for it in exchange for some free admission days for our members?

I hope TNT doesn't kick me in the butt for bringing this up...

I do not see a reason to make it a joint club campsite.

The SWXC has worked hard for that campsite and to allow another club to piggy back would be more benifit for them than for us.

SWXC has dues for just such things.

However.. Like was mentioned earlier. I would check to see what other benifits could be had for contributing to the toilet. I like the discounted entrance fees for club members myself.

TNT does not collect dues.

But they do take donations.

Not sure how much TNT members would want to contribute, as most are already members of SWXC. I wouldn't want to pay twice just cuz I am a member of both.

While I realize that the club itself does not collect dues, many members may be willing to donate what they can, seeing as how we all use the site... And yes, while SWXC as worked hard for the site, TNT wouldn't necessarily be "piggy backing", as I'm sure everyone involved will be working on the site, as much as needed... "More benefit to them than to us"... I don't necessarily see the benefit there... TNT, as friends, use the campsite right along with the SWXC members... Hell, there are a lot of SWXC member that are also TNT members... It just seems more logical to share the cost among everyone using the site... I mean, it's only $200 a year... 20 members = $10 each... 40 members is $5... I'll go donate blood and pay my dues... whatever... I vote to keep it...

That is an excellent idea... Can you pitch that to TMTC and/or Clyde, Scott?

Regarding the TNT thing - it wouldn't help since most of us are members of both.

Just to keep everyone up to date. I have written the TMTC borad expressing our concerns and possible options.

Also, as we know there are two campsites in that area: ours and a Jeep clubs. I mentioned that if we agree to pay for The Pot, the SWXC should have ownership of both campsites. For us to pay, and have another club pay nothing would be silly. (I also said, if the other club wishes, they can pay 1/4, us 1/4 and TMTC their half).

I will update y'all as soon as I hear back from TMTC.

In the meantime let's keep this discussion flowing...

On that note what about the jeep group that has the back site.. are they being required to pitch in for the pot in the area?

Although many of the members of TNT are also part of SWXC, I don't believe that all of them are, so unless we officially split the cost of the rent between the two groups (TNT/SWXC) it would have to remain under the ownership of SWXC.Of course that doesn't mean TNT people can't use it; after all ownership only gives us first right to the site, and most of the time it's a joint trip anyway. It's just for formality reasons, we need to know the cost to the club (either all or half) so we can committ as a club.

If we can get the Jeep group that would be great too, especially it the facility is going to be used by both campsites.

Well, it seems Clyde jumped the gun. All of this talk about putting in port-a-pots is just that right now; talk. There was a brief brainstorm between the TMTC Prez and another board member, and Clyde took that to mean it was in place/for real and going to happen now. That is currently not the case. So, we can all breathe easy (can you breathe easy talking about port-a-pots?).

On the other hand, here is the rest of the story. TMTC is going to put port-a-pots in, and our site has been tagged to receive one. When this will happen is unknown. HOWEVER, when it is put in, we will not have to pay; the TMTC membership dues will take care of that for us, and all the other campsites. If we want additional 'pots', we would have to foot the bill for those.

Also, I have asked if we can take ownership of the entire area down there (ie the two sites) and the TMTC board is looking into it. They said they will let me know within the week.

Speaking of campsites, TMTC has plans to encourage clubs to 'improve' their sites. TMTC plans to do this by supplying railroad ties, sand, flagstones and what not -at no cost to us- to improve the site. There is no date on this yet, but TMTC said if we wanna get a jump start we could put together a proposal, submit it, and whatever they apporve, we can do. (They are sending me an official proposal form) So, if we want to add another trash can, build a fence or whatever, we can concievably do it on TMTC's bill. This would be ultra cool especially if we get control of both sites. They have asked for fire pits (hello welder boys), fencing to encourage camping in specific areas, and anything else we can think of.

What do ya say?

s

(Future reference: Poll was 10 to keep, 5 to not)

Get us some steel... I will have an onboard welder pretty soon..and should be able to build most of the firepits onsite.

That sounds awesome! I'm up for some buildin'. That would give a good excuse to actually get back up there after too long a hiatus.

Don't forget some basic concrete, rebar and bricks or stones and I can co-design and build a custom fire pit with the welders as well.....

If you would like and/or except help in generating the actual proposal for construction at the TMTC camp site I would like to volunteer my services to the SWXC as well.

I don't know what piggy backing means. I know for a fact that I have done more for that campsite in the last several years than you have Carlton. I would be willing to donate to the cause if need be.

Herk,

I will gladly accept your, and anyone else’s, help in preparing proposals, planning events, brainstorming, coordinating, pouring coffee or whatever for whatever. So, yeah, you can join me in submitting the proposal. Let’s first wait and see what TMTC has to say about giving us the whole area (SWXC + the other site) as that will drive what we want to do.

My thoughts would be another trashcan and a fire/grill pit at the least. TMTC has said they want us to lay railroad tie to cordon off and area for tents. They have also mentioned sand/gravel paths etc (personally I do not see the need for that, but whatever the club decides, we will submit).

s