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#146649 - 11/12/06 05:48 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Rockaholic Offline
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Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
So people are upset that the Rabbi doesn't have links to Christmas stuff...on his Jewish organization's website.

Are you equally upset that your local church doesn't have Channuka decorations up?

Let's keep in mind that airports have been hotspots for religous people to spread the word of their religion(think of the scene in the movie Airplane! where Ted Striker runs past various religous people peddling their religion, and even punches one of them out).

It's not like the Rabbi asked for a Menorah to be placed on another religous site.
The Rabbi asked for a menorah to be placed in a public area of an airport where one religious holiday symbol existed. He wasn't targeting a religous organization, it is an airport.
I don't ever remember flying into the Sacred Heart of Christ International Airport.

shame on the airport for failing to take into account other religous beliefs before setting up their display.
In the spirit of fairness, you shouldn't ignore other religious beliefs just because they don't happen to be your own.

How would you like it if your town hall put up a large menorah and not a Christmas tree? How would you like it if everyone wished everyone else Happy Channuka?

I have no problem with someone wishing me a Merry Christmas, but I have often wondered why people who may nor know me at all would just assume I share the same religous belief that they have.
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#146650 - 11/12/06 05:57 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by Rockaholic:
So people are upset that the Rabbi doesn't have links to Christmas stuff...on his Jewish organization's website.

Are you upset that your local church doesn't have Channuka decorations up?

It's not like he asked for a Menorah to be placed in another religous site.

The Rabbi asked for a menorah to be placed in a public area or an airport where one religious holiday symbol existed. He wasn't targeting a religous organization, it is an airport.

shame on the airport for failing to take into account other religous beliefs before setting up their display.
In the spirit of fairness, you shouldn't ignore other religious beliefs just because they don't happen to be your own.

How would you like it if your town hall put up a large menorah and not a Christmas tree?

I have no problem with someone wishing me a Merry Christmas, but I have often wondered why people who may nor know me at all would just assume I share the same religous belief that they have.
It was a fucking Christmas tree..Not a nativity scene, been there for 10 years. It is a sign of the season not a religious momentum...atleast not for me and I bet 90% here...
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#146651 - 11/12/06 06:05 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Rockaholic Offline
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Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
How many non-christians do you know that put up Christmas Trees??? (interfaith families with one of those faiths being Christian excluded)
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#146652 - 11/12/06 06:05 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
NismoXse02 Offline
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Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
The Rabbi can go fuck himself. So can all of you who want the vast majority to bend over backwards for the vast minority. If he wants to put up a menorah in an airport, he can go start his own airport. That's how you achieve things in this country. Until then, if he's truly offended... don't use that fucking airport! And shame on the airport for caving in. They would win the legal battle hands down, especially if they called it what everyone else is calling it with the damn PC crap we have to deal with now... it's a "holiday tree". I know what I said isn’t very Christmas-y, but I’m sick of this shit happening every year.
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#146653 - 11/12/06 06:11 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Rockaholic Offline
Member

Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
Nismo, you're taking it to another extreme.

The Rabbi didn't ask/threaten/demand the Christmas trees be taken down or called something else, he asked for inclusion, the addition of his religious symbol to the ones already there.

Are you saying that other religions shouldn't be expressed in public like Christianity because they have less followers?
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#146654 - 11/12/06 06:11 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry but if anyone I knew family, freind even aquaintance said they were going to sue a person or entity because they dont have thier religious symbol up I would smack them up sid the back of thier head hard as hell and say "What the fuck is wrong with you!!!"

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#146655 - 11/12/06 06:20 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
NismoXse02 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by Rockaholic:
The Rabbi didn't ask/threaten/demand the Christmas trees be taken down or called something else, he asked for inclusion, the addition of his religious symbol to the ones already there.
...and threaten to sue if he didn't get his way. You seem to leave that part out.
Quote:
Are you saying that other religions shouldn't be expressed in public like Christianity because they have less followers?
No, I'm saying they can express their religion in a public places if that public place wishes it express it.
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#146656 - 11/12/06 06:36 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by Rockaholic:
How many non-christians do you know that put up Christmas Trees??? (interfaith families with one of those faiths being Christian excluded)
Several....including myself
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#146657 - 11/12/06 06:39 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
The Rabbi can go fuck himself. So can all of you who want the vast majority to bend over backwards for the vast minority. If he wants to put up a menorah in an airport, he can go start his own airport. That's how you achieve things in this country. Until then, if he's truly offended... don't use that fucking airport! And shame on the airport for caving in. They would win the legal battle hands down, especially if they called it what everyone else is calling it with the damn PC crap we have to deal with now... it's a "holiday tree". I know what I said isn’t very Christmas-y, but I’m sick of this shit happening every year.
Bravoo ! [ThumbsUp]
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#146658 - 11/12/06 06:59 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Kaiser Offline
Member

Registered: 18/01/03
Posts: 6372
Loc: Austin, Texas
Rockaholic: To me, it's ALLLL about the threat of a lawsuit.

The way things *ought* to work - is the Rabbi asks nicely - and the airport realizes that they should have included all major local religions - so they put up something for everyone in a little holiday display area... Barring that, they refuse to make a change and the Rabbi makes a stink about it to the community and media and pressure from those groups makes the airport either put up the other symbols or scrap the whole thing.

... but no... Ye Olde Lawsuit (or threat thereof) comes out - which loses the Rabbi ANY respect that I might have had for him and his cause.

The airport, seeing trouble coming, did the right thing - just bail out before it gets ugly (and now look.. even by bailing out they STILL have people bitch-bitch-bitching away).

Personally, my libertarian view is: is the airport a government facility?

If so - there shouldn't really be any religious things in it at all. If not, then the owners of the airport should be able to put up whatever the hell they want (or not) and everybody's opinion be damned.
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#146659 - 11/12/06 07:04 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
BigE515 Offline
Member

Registered: 13/10/02
Posts: 5734
Loc: Chelmsford,MA
Christmas is about religion? Ohhhhh, I thought it was about Santa, Rudolph, Frosty, carols, the smile on a child's face on christmas morning, being broke all month, eating too much, drinking too much and being with friends and family but its about religion?? Hmmmm, so lets see its been commercialized, now the religion freaks are trying to ruin it...all thats left is for politics to join in and really fuck up Christmas. :p

Merry Xmas! [Wave]
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#146660 - 11/12/06 07:07 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Rockaholic Offline
Member

Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
Quote:
Originally posted by BigE515:
all thats left is for politics to join in and really fuck up Christmas. :p

Merry Xmas! [Wave]
Too late, the politicians have already been doing that.

Merry X-Mas back, you Light loving, video making fiend laugh
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#146661 - 11/12/06 07:08 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Rockaholic Offline
Member

Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus Von Christensen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Rockaholic:
[b]How many non-christians do you know that put up Christmas Trees??? (interfaith families with one of those faiths being Christian excluded)
Several....including myself[/b]
Well, then I guess I stand corrected.

Merry Christmas to you.
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Jeffrey
I'm just trying to put my tires on the rocks of life.

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#146662 - 11/12/06 07:13 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Rockaholic Offline
Member

Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaiser:
[b]Rockaholic: To me, it's ALLLL about the threat of a lawsuit.

The way things *ought* to work - is the Rabbi asks nicely - and the airport realizes that they should have included all major local religions - so they put up something for everyone in a little holiday display area... Barring that, they refuse to make a change and the Rabbi makes a stink about it to the community and media and pressure from those groups makes the airport either put up the other symbols or scrap the whole thing.[/b]
Well, in a way that's what Happened - at leat the way I read the article. The threat of a lawsuit (the article never said one was filed) was the way the Rabbi made a stink about the airports refusal of his inital request to add a menorah to the display.

You can argue that the lawsuit wasn't the way to go with making a stink, but that's the way it plays out to me.

As for the ownership of an airport - they are all regulated by the FAA, some are privately owned, some are Government owned. I couldn't tell you which this particular airport is.
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I'm just trying to put my tires on the rocks of life.

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#146663 - 11/12/06 07:22 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


The guy was just shown on World News Tonight.

Said now he was receiving hate mail and threats. Seemed like his stated "intentions" were a bit different now that he realized his ass might be on the line.

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#146664 - 11/12/06 08:53 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


As I see it, the Airport Authority did it right this year to try to avoid a big stink.(though it still happened)They did state they will re-evaluate after the first of the year. True it sucks and is PC but I guess that's the world today.
Next scenerio for you: The Airport Authority re-evaluates and decides to incorporate all major religons into various displays throughout the airport. Now what's to stop the Jehovah Witness's or other religon from claiming discrimination because they don't celebrate Christmas?

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#146665 - 11/12/06 10:03 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


all you jew bashers who base your opinions off one person are just as much of assholes as he is. ill have you know, that people with no serious religious affiliation are now the largest group in the country now. it is just the fuckfaces who are so hardcore that think that everyone must conform to what they think is right. You guys are doing it too. your christian websites don't put up links to jewish places or holidays. Just because you are the majority, does no mean you are the most important. assholes. i understand why you are upset, but you have to realize that the demographics in this country are always changing, and there will always be contraversy. oh and the russian guy who was jew bashing...the jews that i know are some of the hardest working poeple that i know by far. "living off welfare at 45" haha, that is just absolutely rediculous to say a culture as a whole is doing that.

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#146666 - 11/12/06 10:13 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by eli:
all you jew bashers who base your opinions off one person are just as much of assholes as he is. ill have you know, that people with no serious religious affiliation are now the largest group in the country now. it is just the fuckfaces who are so hardcore that think that everyone must conform to what they think is right. You guys are doing it too. your christian websites don't put up links to jewish places or holidays. Just because you are the majority, does no mean you are the most important. assholes. i understand why you are upset, but you have to realize that the demographics in this country are always changing, and there will always be contraversy. oh and the russian guy who was jew bashing...the jews that i know are some of the hardest working poeple that i know by far. "living off welfare at 45" haha, that is just absolutely rediculous to say a culture as a whole is doing that.
Whoa there Eli, no one here was "Jew bashing" the fact the guy happens to be a a man of the cloth, has absofuckinglutly nothing to do with the facts of this matter. It has to do with common sense and the need to bring politics into a season many consider the highlight of the year. ripping down X-mas trees due to the threat of being sued is the real issue here. Pissing on Santa and the elves is the issue here....lighten the fuck up and mellow out for the season is the issue here

No one is slamming the guy for being a Jew, they are slamming him for being an Idiot...correct me if I am wrong the two should not have anything to do with other ?
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#146667 - 11/12/06 10:22 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
NismoXse02 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by eli:
ill have you know, that people with no serious religious affiliation are now the largest group in the country now.
Link please. I guess you left that pretty vague, you can spin it a couple ways but I'd still like to see your source.

Claus, don't worry about eli. He's just pissed because he's only a T-Shirt UT fan and only wishes he could get a degree from there. laugh
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#146668 - 11/12/06 10:34 PM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


haha, actually i graduated from Tulane , which is a much better school than UT, especially in my two majors, so no i do not wish i was going there.

and about the number of agnostics in the country, "the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms has been among those adults who do not subscribe to any religious identification; their number has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just 8% of the total in 1990 to over 14% in 2001;" so it is not the largest, but it is become the largest single denomination very quickly. (catholic is the largest with 24%, and baptist is about the same size as agnostic with 17%, but both are also declining slowly)

source:http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm

I also saw an estimate somewhere (which i will have to find) that i believe said agnostics are close to 30% now (2007)

and not everybody was jew bashing, i was reffering to a select few who made some really asshole comments. Examples:

Big daddy chia: “Is this now a valid reason to dislike Jewish people.”

AHTOXA: “Where I live I often times see Russian Jews act just like that in everyday living. Those are the same people that came here as "refugees" and are not willing to learn the language, not willing to support America and are not even willing to work at times. A lot of them sit on Welfare (older folks, but come on! 45-50 is not that old and you can still work, otherwise why are you here??) That's where my tax dollars go, and yous too...

Seeing shit like this seriously makes me ashamed of even having the word Russian associated with people like that.”

Kaiser: “Yes yes... and he expressed his wish to be included in the traditional Jewish way - by threatening a lawsuit”

I grew up in a two-religion household, with christmas and channukah growing up (but i didnt get twice the presents, don't worry), my father being jewish and mother irish catholic. learning about my family history and everything that they went through (i.e. having your entire family slaughtered), some things just rub me the wrong way. sorry i freaked out.

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#146669 - 12/12/06 03:04 AM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered



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#146670 - 12/12/06 04:34 AM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


The "Winter Holiday Trees" are going back up!!

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#146671 - 12/12/06 05:09 AM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Seems kind of ludicrous that Christians would celebrate their savior by killing trees...

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#146672 - 12/12/06 06:05 AM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Why kill trees to celebrate the birth of the savior?

Look, its simple.

How else do you get wood to make a cross?

Ever think of that?

laugh

Or maybe...

It all started back when the rabbits started laying eggs...Jesus really liked eggs, and they loved him so much, they made it happen.

Then, Jesus's cholesterol got out of control from too many eggs, and the bunnies felt bad...so they started hiding them, but, being very observant, Jesus was able to find them...so they started painting the eggs different colors to hide them better...and hiding them in trees.

Jesus went around cutting down the trees looking for his eggs....

So the rabbits went around decorating the trees to make it harder to see the eggs, and hung egg shaped balls all over the place to confuse Jesus...

It just got out of hand after that...

So - Now, we celebrate his first time being born with trees hung with things to confuse Jesus, and the second time by hiding eggs.

Hope that helped to clarify things.

laugh
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#146673 - 12/12/06 06:11 AM Re: "Mommy, why are they killing X-mas?"
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by TJ:
Why kill trees to celebrate the birth of the savior?

Look, its simple.

How else do you get wood to make a cross?

Ever think of that?

laugh

Or maybe...

It all started back when the rabbits started laying eggs...Jesus really liked eggs, and they loved him so much, they made it happen.

Then, Jesus's cholesterol got out of control from too many eggs, and the bunnies felt bad...so they started hiding them, but, being very observant, Jesus was able to find them...so they started painting the eggs different colors to hide them better...and hiding them in trees.

Jesus went around cutting down the trees looking for his eggs....

So the rabbits went around decorating the trees to make it harder to see the eggs, and hung egg shaped balls all over the place to confuse Jesus...

It just got out of hand after that...

So - Now, we celebrate his first time being born with tree hung with things to confuse Jesus, and the second time by hiding eggs.

Hope that helped to clarify things.

laugh
rofl

It's a good thing they are all chocolate eggs nowadays!

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