The sheer stupidity of this astounded me enough that I'm seriously considering abandoning my independent status and registering as a Republican. Its not that I agree with all their principles. . . there are many times I disagree and even dislike them, but I'm beginning to really develop serious contempt for the Democratic party:

There's so many things wrong with this statement and the entire concept its difficult to know where to start. When has giving the government more control of a complex market-driven problem actually resolved it? How about the fact that the government already has control of how much oil "gets out into the market" by limiting where oil companies can drill?

I've considered myself an environmentalist my entire life and have historically been against drilling in Anwar and offshore. I've come to a couple realizations though:
1) An adequate supply of energy is absolutely critical to our economy, national security, and stability of inter-national relationships. High energy prices seriously threaten our entire way of life. To ensure we can continue to prosper and avoid a dire future, we'll have to make environmental sacrifices.
2. Compromise is a fundamental component of politics. You can't "always" have your way in a Democracy when you have two diametrically opposed groups, and the only way we're going to be able to get anything done, or make any progress on this issue is if both sides agree to some level of compromise.
3. For these reasons, if I were in the House or Senate I would vote to expand oil exploration and permit drilling offshore and in Anwar, but require a compromise that significant investments would have to be made in alternative sources of energy and conversation. For example, I would require some of the following:
-increasing CAFE standards (its pathetic that American auto-manufacturers were too shortsighted to embrace hybrids 5 years earlier when Toyota and Honda did)
-require a National Renewable Energy Portfolio such that some percentage of our energy has to come from renewable sources (wind, solar, etc.)

Regardless of my personal opinion on the issue, I can say with certainty that nationalization of oil refineries would, rather than helping the problem, just exacerbate it. It really blows my mind that the idea is even being considered. Democrats are just playing into the liberal "big oil (along with all corporations) are evil" mantra.

What I like is that the Chinese are diagonally drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico from Cuba. Anyone think they are considering any real environmental aspects?

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-cheney-oil-drilling,0,1671056.story

Tired of getting lied to yet?

I didn't see anything in that article that mentioned diagonal drilling. Cuba is an island - drilling into the Gulf isn't that far fetched. I think I read about it in the London Times, but who knows. Either way, I don't think the Chicoms are too worried about fucking up the environment in the Gulf, given their record on their own soil. That was really my point - we can't drill because of environmental concerns, yet we aren't trying to stop another country from half way around the globe from doing the same thing.
Tired of being lied to - hardly! I get to watch politicians on TV every morning during PT. It provides entertainment and motivation.

Flint get out of here with that rational thought nonsense. That dog ain't gonna hunt in politics.

Personally, I think that in the long run, having these high fuel prices is a good thing for the market. We've already got all sorts of inventor types coming up with alternate ways to get petroleum - ranging from bio-engineered stuff (and not that ethanol crap) to the oil shale deposits. All have plusses and minuses associated to them - but all should be allowed to go forward. Let the market and inventiveness figure out which works best.

Keep government out of it. They aren't here to help. At all. Ever. Anytime and anything they plan on doing will screw us. Might be some time to do some research and see which particular idiots are proposing this as a good idea and inform them of their idiocy.

someone should check with Venzuela and see how that nationalization of their oil industry is working out.

They'll have the entire infrastructure run into the ground within 5 years.

When private companies run refineries, there's accountability to the people and to the government for environmental concerns. When the government runs something, that accountability seems to go out the window.

Our government has proven over and over again that every time it interferes with something, it gets worse.

Who are the stupid fucks who keep voting in these socialists anyways?

I really can't beleive that there isn't a viable 3rd party in this country yet that is somewhere in the middle.

"Here, if you have a milkshake, and the Chinese have a milkshake, and the Chinese have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching? And the Chinese straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... the Chinese... drink... your... milkshake! The Chinese drink it up!"

Flintstrike....

None of this should be shocking to you. The Democrat Party is basically the socialist party in the United States. Most especially the Democrats who comprise the "Progressive Caucus".

Maxine Waters two weeks ago threatened during hearings that she wanted to nationalize the oil companies themselves. Only she used the word "socialize".

Jorge.... You and your socialist friends are the ones doing the lying.

The Chinese and others, including India, have been planning for years to drill for oil in the Gulf off the coast of Cuba.

They've made no secrets about it.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/09/news/economy/oil_cuba/index.htm

The leases with Cuba for drilling are already signed. It makes no difference whether or not they have started any drilling. They plan to drill and there is little we can do about it.

The media is attempting to spin the story around by claiming US oil companies were invited to bid on the leases but were banned from doing so because of the Cuban embargo.

We don't need to drill in Cuban waters or international waters off of Cuba. The fact is, we could do it off of our own shores just a couple of miles away without Cuban involvement. The reason we do not open up more off shore oil fields is because of people like you. It is because of the Democrats and a few liberal Republicans.

The Democrats and the enviro-radicals are responsible for cutting off access to our own oil.

Now the Democrat socialists are threatening to control the means of production of our entire energy supply chain.

It's a strategic problem. If we figured out how to protect those oil fields and keep everyone away until the ME ran out, we'd be sitting pretty. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have realized that they want that oil.

The best answer, at this point, is to make definite strides towards:
1 - a solid replacement for a petroleum source. One that will drastically reduce our need for oil from foreign sources and, potentially, let us become an exporter.
2 - Methodology to slow our ever increasing usage. Note that this isn't just in vehicles, but all across the board in all petroleum products.
3 - find, refine, and start using alternative energy sources. FBR nuclear, geothermal, wind, solar, etc.

All that stuff about finding a replacement for oil might sound good as a 10 second soundbite to certain types of people.

The truth is.... there IS NOT going to be a suitable replacement anytime in the near future. Nothing even comes close to the usefulness of petroleum.

We need it, and we need it NOW. We needed it yesterday. There is plenty of petroleum right under North America. We are being kept from using our own resources by a tiny minority of nefarious people with a dangerous amount of undue influence over our society.

Those same people are going to prevent extended use of nuclear power too.

We don't have an energy crisis. We have a crisis of undue influence and control by small number of people.

When gas hits $6 or $7 a gallon, maybe people will wake up and start run the socialist fucktards out of office.

That should pretty much end the thread because that is exactly where we stand in our country right now.

The oil companies are responsible for loosing access. How these oil platform incidents:

• Amoco Platform Anna Upper Cook Inlet, Alaska 1989-Jan-31
• ARCO King Salmon Platform MacArthur River Field, Alaska 1992-Apr-25
• ARCO Platform B #1 South Pass, Mississippi River Delta, Louisiana 1989-Mar-20
• ARCO Platform B #2 South Pass, Mississippi River Delta, Louisiana 1989-Apr-06
• Chevron Platform MP 67 east of Delta National Wildlife Refuge, Louisiana 1991-Oct-18
• Dolly Vardon Platform Cook Inlet, Alaska 1992-Nov-23
• Graying Platform Blowout Cook Inlet, Alaska 1985-May-23
• Heritage Platform (Exxon) Santa Barbara, California 1996-May-02
• Marathon Spark Platform Upper Cook Inlet, Alaska 1988-Nov-14
• Mystery Spill - Gulf of Mexico Platform Gulf of Mexico 1997-Sep-29
• Nat. Gas Platform 20 miles due south of Galveston, Texas 1998-May-30
• New Field Platform Gulf of Mexico 2001-Mar-30
• Pirate Well Platform Mississippi River Delta, LA 1992-Oct-30
• Platform Irene Vandenberg Air Force Base, California 1997-Sep-29
• Shell Platform 26 Gulf of Mexico, Louisiana 1970-Dec-01
• Steelhead Platform Blowout Cook Inlet, Alaska 1987-Dec-21
• Timbalier Platform 5-7 mi s of Belle Pass, LA 2002-Jan-10
• UNOCAL Cook Inlet Baker Platform Upper Cook Inlet, north of Forelands, Alaska 1994-Apr-06
• UNOCAL Granite Point Platform Granite Point, Upper Cook Inlet, Alaska 1992-Apr-21
• UNOCAL Platform Anna Granite Point oil field in Upper Cook Inlet, Alaska 1994-Nov-18

These incidents were caused by human error, lack of maintenance, etc. by the oil companies, not the Democrats and the enviro-radicals.
Oh, and it's just not the platforms:

• AMOCO Pipeline Break High Island, Texas 1991-Sep-06
• BP Pipeline Spill Mississippi River Delta 1998-Oct-01
• BP/Chevron Pipeline Mississippi Canyon 1998-Sep-30
• Buckeye Pipeline Knapp Run, Pennsylvania 1990-Mar-30
• Buckeye Pipeline 1 Lima, Ohio 1986-Feb-19
• Buckeye Pipeline 2 New Haven Harbor, Connecticut 1994-Oct-15
• Chevron Pipeline Waiawa Wildlife Refuge, Honolulu, Hawaii 1987-May-18
• Chevron Pipeline Spill Pearl Harbor, Hawaii 1996-May-14
• Colonial Pipeline Reston, VA 1993-Apr-05
• CONOCO Pipeline #1 7 miles west of Fouchon, Louisiana 1991-Dec-12
• CONOCO Pipeline #2 Grand Isle Block 43, LA 1992-Jan-04
• Dillon Pipeline right at the Forelands in Cook Inlet 1999-Oct-23
• East Cameron Block 338 Pipeline 90 miles offshore Louisiana 1997-Dec-24
• Galveston Bay Pipeline Leak Galveston Bay, TX 2000-Apr-20
• Hess Pipeline Kearny, New Jersey 1994-Oct-05
• High Island Pipeline System (Amoco) offshore Texas 1998-Jan-22
• Johnsons Bayou Pipeline Leak Johnsons Bayou, LA 2000-Feb-24
• JP-4 Pipeline Spill Burlington County, New Jersey 1988-Aug-02
• Kenai Pipeline East Forelands Nikiski, Alaska 1992-Jan-04
• Lake Barre, Pipeline Spill Houma, Louisiana 1997-May-16
• Lakehead Pipeline Company Grand Rapids, Minnesota 1991-Mar-03
• Mobil Oil Pipeline Rupture Marsh Island, Louisiana 1985-Nov-10
• Oil Well Pipeline New Harmony, Indiana 1997-Jan-07
• Olympic Pipeline Des Moines, Washington 1985-Nov-29
• Pipeline Break Ramah, Louisiana 1999-Jul-30
• Pipeline Break (Poseidon Pipeline Spill) Gulf of Mexico 2000-Jan-22
• Pipeline Rupture Texas 1998-Jan-22
• Santa Clara River Pipeline Santa Clarita, California 1994-Jan-17
• Santa Fe Pacific Pipeline San Diego, California 1994-Dec-22
• Shell Pipeline Atchafalaya Bay, Louisiana 1999-Jul-23
• Ship Shoal 332 Pipeline Break Gulf of Mexico 2000-Jan-21
• STEUART PETROLEUM PIPELINE St. Marys, MD 1990-Nov-18
• Sun Oil Pipeline Philadelphia, PA 2000-Feb-05
• Sun Pipeline Spill North Louisiana 2000-Nov-16
• Sunniland Pipeline Company Florida Everglades 1986-Sep-09
• Teppco Pipeline Port Arthur, TX 2001-Nov-27
• Texaco Pipeline Timbalier Island, LA 1992-Aug-31
• Texaco Pipeline - Louisiana South Timbalier Block 270 1997-Aug-14
• U.S. Navy Pipeline San Diego, California 1996-Mar-07

Remember 1997s Department of Justice settlement with British Petroleum? $370 million for issues in Alaska, Texas, and market manipulation.
If they ran a clean business the "Democrats and the enviro-radicals" wouldn't have anything to bitch about.

You're full of shit. The entire reason we are so reliant on foreign sources of petroleum is directly the fault of the left --- the Democrats. Yeah, a few idiot Republicans thrown in there too, but it is overwhelmingly the Democrats.

The Democrat Party is beholden to the enviro-radicals. They also purposely want to create energy dependence and "crisis" situation to further increase governmental control.

Oil is a dirty business. It's gotten cleaner as time goes by, but just because a drop of oil spills, it is no reason to ban our own resourses and artificially create dependence on foreign sources of energy.

Even beyond petroleum, the Democrats and the enviro-radicals are actively working to increase our future dependence on foreign sources of coal. That is an energy resource that is abundant in this country, yet they want to destroy that industry and there are active plans in the works to increase our national dependency on foreign sources of coal. Specifically Indonesian coal.

They also want to deny us Canadian sources of energy like oil sands and oil shale. They are actively working to deny us from using our own vast resources of domestic oil shale. You think this bullshit of putting animals like polar bears on the endangered species list is because they care about polar bears? They couldn't give a fuck. It's about disallowing access to energy sources.

You can lie all you want. Facts are facts. The only energy policy the left has is denial of energy sources and increased reliance on foreign sources of energy.

I don't believe that for one second government control of the platforms, refineries, and piplelines would reduce accidents, and it would likely double the cost.

Not sure you understand the mindset of these people and the half of the population that follows them. They all think that high oil prices right now are solely the fault of GWB. They don't connect anything with a failed democratic congress, or the massive devaluation of our currency caused by bipartisan "stimulus packages", Bernake's mismanagement of the FED, or these bipartisan bailout ideas for the mortgage industry. They'll certainly never make the connections that Democrats in congress, both past and present, are largely responsible for the run up in oil prices. 65%+ of Americans right now do favor domestic drilling. So much for a congress that supports the will of the people

Government intervention on free markets - even a few aspects of a free market, throws the whole goddamn thing out of whack.

This next election will be interesting. We'll likley see more dems in congress despite the epic fail over the past two years, and Obama doesn't really have an energy policy that I've heard.

Scary times ahead, boys and girls.

This thread reminds me of a when Penn and Teller sent someone to an environment rally to sign a petition to ban Dihydrogen Monoxide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzLs60ZaNW4

Blacks and Hispanics who want more government handouts.

They don't work or pay taxes so what do they care where the handouts come from.

S.

Bush is out of a job soon, doesn't the Bush family have a bunch of money in oil? Of course he wants to push for drilling, so he can line his pockets in the future.

Wouldn't you?

Bet your ass I would!

I don't know. Does he? He is a politician and is required to file all his financial holdings. Seeing that you are so sure of yourself, why don't you back up that statement with some proof.

Or are you just repeating propaganda.

Besides, what is wrong with American oil companies. Most public and private pension funds in this country have some holdings in oil companies and the energy sector.

Quote:

Of course he wants to push for drilling, so he can line his pockets in the future.

When you are done repeating asinine propaganda... maybe you will grow up and realize it is about time that America start tapping it's own vast petroleum resources instead of constantly relying on foreign sources.

Are you one of these people who wishes to keep us at the mercy of foreign sources of oil? At the mercy of production levels of hostile cartels? All while there is more petroleum resources in North American than under Saudi Arabia and Venezuela combined. Probably even much more.

Even your own senator is seeing the writing on the wall and it's about time.

Thanks for the intelligent debate.

You have some points worth debating as documented in your subsequent writings, but your emotional attach just cheapens your argument.

Grow up and talk like a grown man, not a teenager.

Wait - don't get me wrong. I'm all for drilling the fuck out of Alaska and off shore, if it makes gas cheaper so I don't spend $500 again next month on gas just getting to work.

You are full of shit.

I'm the one debating like an adult. It's sad that people like you enter with the most childish and outlandish assertions and reasoning imaginable, then you expect to be taken seriously. If you are going to act like a teenager, you are going to be treated like a teenager.

In fact in your complete world of ignorance, you seem to think oil accidents are exclusive to American oil companies. It's a dirty business and American oil companies have far better records than oil companies throughout the world.

I bet in your ignorance you didn't even know that American oil companies are not that large when compared to most foreign and state owned oil companies. I bet in your ignorance you didn't know that America is forced to buy oil on the open market from some of the most pervasive abusers of the environment. The cleanest countries and operations are the ones we helped build for them.

Do you think when the Chinese come over and exercise those drilling leases they purchased from Cuba, whether they will give two shits if they unload thousands of gallons of oil into the ocean off our shores? They couldn't give a rat's ass and people like you wouldn't complain a single word about it.

Some of the biggest shitholes on earth are where Russian oil companies extract petroleum from the ground. Do you think they give a shit? Do you think they give a rat's ass what you think? But, you would be more than happy to get their oil if it would keep your vehicle loaded with gasoline.

You're a hypocrite and a creep who is not looking out for the best interests of your country.

The cleanest petroleum drillers on earth are American oil companies. Yet you, like a child ruled and consumed by nothing but vacuous emotions, blame American oil companies for the wide bans on utilizing our own resources.

You are nothing but a liar. You and people just like you are the reason this country is so dependent on foreign sources of petroleum.

The legislative, judicial, and regulatory record is well documented. You enviro-radicals on the left are the reason why we are in the position we are in today. To make matters worse, you want to drag this country down even further.