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#203269 - 21/08/03 04:17 AM Alabama.
xterrapin Offline
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Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1842
Loc: San Francisco
Listening to NPR this morning and they played the CNBC interview with the Alabama Supereme Court Judge that refuses to remove the ten commandments from the courthouse; what is with people in Alabama, are they ALL that ignorant?
I don't get it. He's a judge, sworn to uphold the law, ignoring the law. Seems a little contradictory to me. confused
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#203270 - 21/08/03 04:57 AM Re: Alabama.
off2cjb Offline
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Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
Listening to NPR this morning and they played the CNBC interview with the Alabama Supereme Court Judge that refuses to remove the ten commandments from the courthouse; what is with people in Alabama, are they ALL that ignorant?
I don't get it. He's a judge, sworn to uphold the law, ignoring the law. Seems a little contradictory to me. confused
There is right, and there is wrong regardless of what laws men create. He is doing the right thing. He may not be doing the legal thing, but the right thing. Good for him.

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#203271 - 21/08/03 05:47 AM Re: Alabama.
xterrapin Offline
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Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1842
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:

He may not be doing the legal thing, but the right thing.
Uhhhh.....yeah, OK. :rolleyes:
He's a fucking judge! The rule of law is all that exists.
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#203272 - 21/08/03 06:37 AM Re: Alabama.
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]
He may not be doing the legal thing, but the right thing.
Uhhhh.....yeah, OK. :rolleyes:
He's a fucking judge! The rule of law is all that exists.[/b]
True, but don't you think it is grand when someone stands up all alone to fight for something he believes in?

You know, like how all you bleedin' heart pu??ies did protesting the war?

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#203273 - 21/08/03 06:37 AM Re: Alabama.
Guido Offline
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Registered: 25/01/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: Albertville, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
[b]Listening to NPR this morning and they played the CNBC interview with the Alabama Supereme Court Judge that refuses to remove the ten commandments from the courthouse; what is with people in Alabama, are they ALL that ignorant?
I don't get it. He's a judge, sworn to uphold the law, ignoring the law. Seems a little contradictory to me. confused
There is right, and there is wrong regardless of what laws men create. He is doing the right thing. He may not be doing the legal thing, but the right thing. Good for him.[/b]
There is this little thing called the Constitution that pretty much governs what we are allowed to do in this country. He is a judge who swore to up hold it. His act of defying the Separation of Church and state should be cause enough for him to be fired.

To take your comment a little further...If someone were to kill my daughter and I turned around and killed him/her. Should I not be prosecuted?? It may not have been legal to kill that person, but it was the right thing to do.
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#203274 - 21/08/03 06:41 AM Re: Alabama.
coferj Offline
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Registered: 17/12/01
Posts: 713
Loc: Montgomery, AL
Well, I'm from AL, and I'm completely embarrassed by this moron. The whole, "may not be doing the legal thing, but the right thing", sell it to someone who ain't paying for it, k?

Right now there is a huge bustle going on about a $1.2 billion tax plan that the Gov is trying to pass through, and the citizens are talking about being overtaxed, etc...but then you have someone like this moron that is doing nothing more than showboating on taxpayers' dimes, for what? What exact purpose does that eyesore serve? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a religious person, and it doesn't bother me either way, but if the highest court in the land demands it gone, get it the hell outta there and let that be it. I'm so tired of hearing about Judge Moore that I could just croak.

Yet, I regress...Please, tell me, what purpose does that monument serve??

I'll tell you, nothing!!
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#203275 - 21/08/03 06:54 AM Re: Alabama.
xterrapin Offline
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Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1842
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
You know, like how all you bleedin' heart pu??ies did protesting the war?
Personal convictions don't matter when you are breaking the law while, at the same time, sworn to uphold it. Peaceably assembling as an expression of one's first amendment rights is guaranteed and is not in violation of the law or a ruling by the federal supreme court.
If a police officer commits pre-meditated, first-degree murder, doesn't mean it's OK just cause he/she is a cop.
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#203276 - 21/08/03 06:56 AM Re: Alabama.
Andre the Giant Offline
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Registered: 28/06/01
Posts: 2081
Loc: Cape Girardeau, MO
Question:

Is the ten commandments monument a religious display, or a historical one? The ten commandments were a pretty important event in the history of law, right up there with, the whole Hamurabi code or whatever it was called. But I would expect it to be part of a larger display about the history of law that includes other strong influences on our current legal system.

If the display is historically based, it should be allowed to stay. If it is a shrine to God, celebrating his generocity for giving us the commandments, it should be removed.
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#203277 - 21/08/03 07:35 AM Re: Alabama.
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Guido:
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
[b]Listening to NPR this morning and they played the CNBC interview with the Alabama Supereme Court Judge that refuses to remove the ten commandments from the courthouse; what is with people in Alabama, are they ALL that ignorant?
I don't get it. He's a judge, sworn to uphold the law, ignoring the law. Seems a little contradictory to me. confused
There is right, and there is wrong regardless of what laws men create. He is doing the right thing. He may not be doing the legal thing, but the right thing. Good for him.[/b]
There is this little thing called the Constitution that pretty much governs what we are allowed to do in this country. He is a judge who swore to up hold it. His act of defying the Separation of Church and state should be cause enough for him to be fired.

To take your comment a little further...If someone were to kill my daughter and I turned around and killed him/her. Should I not be prosecuted?? It may not have been legal to kill that person, but it was the right thing to do.[/b]
There is no law written anywheres that says seperation of church and state. This is not what was meant by that comment anyway.

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#203278 - 21/08/03 07:36 AM Re: Alabama.
OffroadX Offline
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Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13682
Loc: Baltimore, MD
What the hell kind of question is that? Of course it's a religious display, ask any of the rabid bible-banging morons down there that are having fits about a piece of rock being removed...

Brent
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#203279 - 21/08/03 07:50 AM Re: Alabama.
Stone4x4 Offline
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Registered: 28/07/01
Posts: 1277
Loc: Chandler AZ
He's a "fucking judge" ???
Where do you get work like that......."well you climaxed too early......points off for that"
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#203280 - 21/08/03 07:56 AM Re: Alabama.
Guido Offline
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Registered: 25/01/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: Albertville, MN
_________________________
"There must be a hell of a ballgame going on upstairs. God must have needed a No. 3 hitter, because he took Puck away from us way too soon."
-Kent Hrbek

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#203281 - 21/08/03 08:03 AM Re: Alabama.
Trihead Offline
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Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
So that would be in interpretation of the first amendment buy one of the dude that wrote it?

Sort of what the supreme court tries to do now?

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#203282 - 21/08/03 08:06 AM Re: Alabama.
TravelingFool Offline
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Registered: 17/10/00
Posts: 6013
Loc: Prior Lake, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
The rule of law is all that exists.
This is an incredibly ignorant statement. If it were true, we would have computers for judges. Judges make "judgement" calls. They define the law, they create laws, they interpret laws. They are not enforcers who command the "rule of law that is all that exists."

This is why supreme court judges write extensive OPINIONS regarding the votes they make on the laws that are sent to them for interpretation. Its also why Roe V Wade is STILL debated in this country, even though there is a LAW.

This judge in Alabama is an elected official, there is no doubt in my mind that he personally believes it is wrong to remove those commandments, and obviously many of his constituents feel the same. He instituted a peaceful protest and did what he could WITHIN the law to keep them as long as he could to raise some awareness of his plight.

I'm behind him 100%. It saddens me to see the general direction the country is headed in.... elimination of any mention of the Bible or Biblical text in schools or government buildings, legal gay marriages, legal gambling, prostitution, etc.

I don't mean to sound like a TV evangelist or anything, but the trend is definately AWAY from biblical principal in this country. Ever read what happens to countries like that in the Bible? Its interesting. Its not good! Fire, brimstone, pillars of salt, etc....
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#203283 - 21/08/03 08:17 AM Re: Alabama.
NismoXse02 Offline
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Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
Holy crap, Alabama is doing the right thing? Good for them. I was getting a little worried about them for awhile. And great post Andre the Giant... only problem is that the answer to both of your questions is "yes". [Freak]
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#203284 - 21/08/03 08:38 AM Re: Alabama.
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
People talk about our laws being based on the ten commandments...but then explain this (going by the Catholic version):

Commandment 1 - no law.

Commandment 2 - no law says you can't use God's name in vain.

Commandment 3 - Nope...no law.

Commandment 4 - Nope...no law.

Commandment 5 - Yes! a law! (But it is something that affects someone else's living)

Commandment 6 - Some laws. How many are enforced?

Commandment 7 - Yes, another law - but it affects someone else's property.

Commandment 8 - yes, a law. But it affects someone else - false accusations, for example.

Commandment 9 - Nope, no law. Well, depending on how you interpret "covet".

Commandment 10 - Same as 9. No law, how does each individual interpret "covet?"

So maybe he should just have a tablet with commandments 5-8?

Then of course, we have "The Great Commandments" which are higher up in the Catholic faith than the other 10 (basically the other 10 fall within these two):

1.You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

No civil laws there.

2. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

See above - some civil laws within.
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#203285 - 21/08/03 08:41 AM Re: Alabama.
MBFlyerfan Offline
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Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
I am an atheist. Lets get that out of the way.

The 1st ammendment basically means there will be no "official" religion of the state. The governement can't give catholics preferential treatment over protestants and so forth. Nor can protestants be discriminated against because they are protestants. (insert whatever religion you want)What it does NOT say is that there can be no religion at all in government. The government can be all born-again Baptists (insert whatever religion you want) and have a forgivness prayer every morning if they prefer. But what they CANNOT do is make everyone else a Baptist (insert religion here) under pain of imprisonment or discrimination. Or keep a non-baptist(insert religion here) person from freely practicing (or not)thier own religion. That is what the law means. It says nothing about having no religious references on state buildings.

Now I do not see how having the Ten Commandments on a courthouse establishes a state religion, or prohibits the freedom to worship how we please. Since the commandments apply to BOTH the Jewish and christian religion, it seems that it covers a wide array. Do the commandment being displayed somehow discriminate against muslims, hindus , or wiccans, or even worse prohibit them from exercising their rights to worship as they please? No they do not. If they are offended, (and I'll bet they are not) too bad. The ACLU is out of control.
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#203286 - 21/08/03 08:41 AM Re: Alabama.
Trihead Offline
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Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
[/Quote]
I don't mean to sound like a TV evangelist or anything, but the trend is definately AWAY from biblical principal in this country. Ever read what happens to countries like that in the Bible? Its interesting. Its not good! Fire, brimstone, pillars of salt, etc....[/QB][/QUOTE]

Does this mean god is a mass murderer? I know that sounds like a smartass question but I don't know how people reconcile this in their religous beliefs.

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#203287 - 21/08/03 08:54 AM Re: Alabama.
off2cjb Offline
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Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
I don't mean to sound like a TV evangelist or anything, but the trend is definately AWAY from biblical principal in this country. Ever read what happens to countries like that in the Bible? Its interesting. Its not good! Fire, brimstone, pillars of salt, etc....[/QUOTE]

Does this mean god is a mass murderer? I know that sounds like a smartass question but I don't know how people reconcile this in their religous beliefs.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Call it what you want. He has already destroyed the Earth with a great flood, along with other demonstrations of tough love towards us.

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#203288 - 21/08/03 09:00 AM Re: Alabama.
Trihead Offline
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Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
hummmm I don't want to hijack the thread (again) but I don't really understand that thinking. He gave his only begotten son but will kill all that he has created. Seriously Off2c I am not trying to rip on you I am trying to understand.

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#203289 - 21/08/03 09:13 AM Re: Alabama.
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
hummmm I don't want to hijack the thread (again) but I don't really understand that thinking. He gave his only begotten son but will kill all that he has created. Seriously Off2c I am not trying to rip on you I am trying to understand.
In its simplest terms; He gave us a list of rules to follow. He gave us every chance to change our ways. We didn't, so he cleaned house and started new. Really, just thing of it has the greatest case of tough love you can imagine. Also, those without the spirit will not understand. Meaning non-believers will have a much more time understanding what it is about.
His ways are not our ways. Our understanding is not His.

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#203290 - 21/08/03 09:21 AM Re: Alabama.
NismoXse02 Offline
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Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 4411
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
Man, and just when I thought Alabama was returning to normalcy (sp?), they go and do this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,95313,00.html

Oh well, I'm damn glad to be living in Texas. laugh
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#203291 - 21/08/03 09:23 AM Re: Alabama.
Trihead Offline
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Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Thanks for the explanation. I just can not imagine as a parent since we are all gods children that there is anything that my daughter could do that I would kill her. Just hard for me to get my mind around.

I never said that I was a non-believer. I guess by your standards I am not. I just don't believe in the way that it is presented in many churches.

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#203292 - 21/08/03 09:29 AM Re: Alabama.
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
Thanks for the explanation. I just can not imagine as a parent since we are all gods children that there is anything that my daughter could do that I would kill her. Just hard for me to get my mind around.

I never said that I was a non-believer. I guess by your standards I am not. I just don't believe in the way that it is presented in many churches.
I understand that stance. Believe me when I say I am there with you. Believer or non, try reading Isiah 55.

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#203293 - 21/08/03 09:39 AM Re: Alabama.
TravelingFool Offline
Member

Registered: 17/10/00
Posts: 6013
Loc: Prior Lake, MN
Its hard for anybody to get their mind around it. The bible says that all things will not be made clear until the end of times (or we die).

I have a hard time with people lumping "the church" and "organized religion" with biblical truth and reason. When people say, "Well, I'm catholic so... " or "I'm a baptist, therefore..." I think that's crap.

Personally, I believe and follow the bible. I've attended and been a part of a non-denominational church for more than 30 years and I have as hard of a time wrapping my head around some of it as much as anyone. I have tremendous faith that good things come out of bad events and chains of events are set in place that result in a greater good that we're not always aware of. Why do innocent children die of cancer? Why do earthquakes kill thousands in impoverished countries? I don't think its because they sinned or did some terrible wrong as much as that events like that serve their purpose in the same way a small puzzle piece fits a much bigger picture.

Keep in mind that God didn't want a bunch of worshipful automatons marching around the earth. He created us with a free-will and his desire for us to voluntarily recognize and worship him. The other side of that coin is that free-will allows us to "screw up" and make bad choices. We all do. The consequences of those choices aren't always pretty.

This is what I believe, at any rate, and I'm not making any attempt to "Evangalize" or "convert" anyone, I'm just tossing it out there for anyone interested. I'm not criticizing anyone else's beliefs either, please keep any flames to yourself.
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