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#208024 - 31/10/03 11:03 AM Re: Cali Fires
MBFlyerfan Offline
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Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
Damn, Wilmac wins again. eek
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#208025 - 31/10/03 11:03 AM Re: Cali Fires
socalpunx Offline
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Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Asshat: You are still confused. Which part of ALL do you find confusing?

The list of items that you find not to be a staple in the regular diet are items that California produces 99% or MORE or ALL of.

Of ALL OTHER fruits and vegetables California produces half. ALL, EVERYTHING. ALL OTHER. Let's take oranges. California produces oranges. Not all of them but some of them ; probably half. Do you u n d e r s t a n d now?

Why does that confuse you so fucking much?
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#208026 - 31/10/03 11:05 AM Re: Cali Fires
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
Reposted... just in case:

Half of ALL fruits and vegetables grown in the U.S. come from California.

13% of all farming products are from California.

California is the largest producer of dairy products in the country.
This one confuses me. Half of ALL fruits and vegetables? Is Corn (and wheat) not considered either?

(For the record - most of the corn grown in Indiana is NOT for human consumption. It is strictly livestock feed).

And while it may be extremely expensive, has California ever looked into desalination (sp?) plants?

Also something I didn't see anyone mention from the original "they should have known" argument - sure, forces of nature affect people and their homes - but last I knew, at least two of these fires were confirmed Arson. I would hardly call that a force of nature.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#208027 - 31/10/03 11:07 AM Re: Cali Fires
Todrick Offline
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Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 7759
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
Quote:
Reposted... just in case:

Half of ALL fruits and vegetables grown in the U.S. come from California.

13% of all farming products are from California.

California is the largest producer of dairy products in the country
and the large portion of these products I doubt are grown just outide of the LA
Actually its the middle of the state, niether north or south... and only about 1 hour from "LA", just over the "grapevine"

and... um, you dont drink milk? or use dairy products on a daily basis?

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#208028 - 31/10/03 11:08 AM Re: Cali Fires
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Fact. If the environmental wackos had allowed the powers that be to reduce the amount of brush, undergrowth, etc etc, we wouldnt be having this problem. What is it about these poeple that they would chose the life of a tree or a friggin chipmunk over a human life?
Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner. Improper forestry is to blame for the fires in CA, not houses being built there.

salind, you are losing the argument. Probably because you are being an idiot. I would say that 50% of the fruits and vegetables grown in the country is a large part of the food we eat.
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#208029 - 31/10/03 11:09 AM Re: Cali Fires
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kansas: Wheat king of the world! On average, Kansas ranks number one in wheat and wheat products exported. Half of the wheat grown in Kansas is used in the United States; the other half is exported.

Kansas: We rule.

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#208030 - 31/10/03 11:11 AM Re: Cali Fires
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Damn, Wilmac wins again. eek
Of course I do. That's because I don't give up.

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#208031 - 31/10/03 11:14 AM Re: Cali Fires
spalind Offline
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Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
Quote:
Of ALL OTHER fruits and vegetables California produces half. ALL, EVERYTHING. ALL OTHER. Let's take oranges. California produces oranges. Not all of them but some of them ; probably half. Do you u n d e r s t a n d now?
Yes, I understand that you have missed the point of this whole conversation...please go back and reread from the beginning....but to continue on your line of conversation...even if your statement that "california produces half of all fruits and vegetables"--leaving out the fact that this is "fruits and vegetables" and not grains or the like...these are still produced in the wetter more temperate areas of California and not in the arid southern reaches...and therefore has no bearing on the conversation....

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#208032 - 31/10/03 11:14 AM Re: Cali Fires
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Moby, California's climate, much like Florida's is condusive to growing fruits and vegetables. But, staples like grains like wheat, corn, potato(e)s (that was an ode to my hero D.Q.) and other staples that are grown in the interior of the country make up a large percentage of agricultural products.

That's why the number is only 13% of the total agricultural products.
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#208033 - 31/10/03 11:18 AM Re: Cali Fires
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
#2--the cause of the severe damage is an area that is overly dry and filled with tinder, #3--a reasonable person who has observed fact #2 would think twice about building their house in such an area, and #3 the rest of the nation should not have to pay for the fact that facts #2 and #3 were ignored...
What about people who live in tornado Alley? What about people who live in a hurricane zone? earthquake zone? Flood zone? Mud slide zone? How about we all move to a region of the planet that has abolutely zero risk factors in living there. :rolleyes:
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#208034 - 31/10/03 11:19 AM Re: Cali Fires
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by socalpunX:
Moby, California's climate, much like Florida's is condusive to growing fruits and vegetables. But, staples like grains like wheat, corn, potato(e)s (that was an ode to my hero D.Q.) and other staples that are grown in the interior of the country make up a large percentage of agricultural products.

That's why the number is only 13% of the total agricultural products.
OK, just checking. So grains aren't counted in that.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#208035 - 31/10/03 11:20 AM Re: Cali Fires
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by WilMac1023:
Kansas: Wheat king of the world! On average, Kansas ranks number one in wheat and wheat products exported. Half of the wheat grown in Kansas is used in the United States; the other half is exported.

Kansas: We rule.
You are wrong, pal. North Dakota beats Kansas.

At least in Cash receipts for 1996, they did:

USDA Agricultural Cash Receipts
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#208036 - 31/10/03 11:20 AM Re: Cali Fires
spalind Offline
Member

Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
Quote:
and... um, you dont drink milk? or use dairy products on a daily basis?

Actually I dont drink milk or use dairy products--I am latose intolerant...blame it on my indian ancestry...

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#208037 - 31/10/03 11:20 AM Re: Cali Fires
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
The temperate aras of California? Jeesus. You are a fucking moron. The wetter part of the state? Clueless, the dry 110 degrees during three months of the year Central Valley from the grapevine to Sacramento is the bread basket of the state. It allso covers 70% of the state's area. They import a large percentage of their water from other states as well as bringing it down from Mt.Shasta and the Sierras.

Orange County, just outside of Los Angeles was the largets producer of oranges in the country until development and progress eventually was responsible for the groves being elimintated. It is also a "desert" by your ignorant standards; Dry, humid in the summer, temperate in the winter and minimal rain.

It is not an "arid" region.
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#208038 - 31/10/03 11:23 AM Re: Cali Fires
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
Actually I dont drink milk or use dairy products--I am latose intolerant.....[/QUOTE]

I'd think that if you were lactose intolerant you could at least spell lactose intolerant.

Moby, interesting link. The USDA is not biased towards California. Possibly the idiot will finally concede.

California led the Nation in crop sales with $17.1 billion, and was the top producing State for 8 of the sector’s top 25 commodities: dairy products, greenhouse and nursery products, eggs, hay, grapes, tomatoes, lettuce, and almonds. California vaulted from third to first place in egg sales with a 27-percent rise in a single year. Three-quarters of California’s farm sales were from crops; fruits and nuts 27 percent, vegetables 23 percent, and greenhouse and nursery 10 percent.
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#208039 - 31/10/03 11:27 AM Re: Cali Fires
spalind Offline
Member

Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
Quote:
The wetter part of the state? Clueless, the dry 110 degrees during three months of the year Central Valley from the grapevine to Sacramento is the bread basket of the state. It allso covers 70% of the state's area. They import a large percentage of their water from other states as well as bringing it down from Mt.Shasta and the Sierras.

Orange County, just outside of Los Angeles was the largets producer of oranges in the country until development and progress eventually was responsible for the groves being elimintated. It is also a "desert" by your ignorant standards; Dry, humid in the summer, temperate in the winter and minimal rain.

It is not an "arid" region.
Thank you for proving my point--that the areas around San Diego and LA are very dry "arid"--please look up the definition, what you are describing your area is, is the definition of an "arid" region...and 110 degree central region?? dont you think you are over exaggerating just a wee bit?? Death Valley and Phoneix only get to like 110-120...I doubt that Sacto sits at 110 for the entire summer....

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#208040 - 31/10/03 11:32 AM Re: Cali Fires
spalind Offline
Member

Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
Quote:
California led the Nation in crop sales with $17.1 billion, and was the top producing State for 8 of the sector’s top 25 commodities: dairy products, greenhouse and nursery products, eggs, hay, grapes, tomatoes, lettuce, and almonds. California vaulted from third to first place in egg sales with a 27-percent rise in a single year. Three-quarters of California’s farm sales were from crops; fruits and nuts 27 percent, vegetables 23 percent, and greenhouse and nursery 10 percent.
so I suppose alot of EGG FARMS!!!!! got burnt down in these fires??!?!?!?! no, i dont think so...nor did I see any tomato farms or greenhouses going up in smoke!!!! again...we are not talking about the same areas....

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#208041 - 31/10/03 11:36 AM Re: Cali Fires
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
Yes, I understand that you have missed the point of this whole conversation...please go back and reread from the beginning....
Quote:
#1 - People should not build homes in "risky areas" which cannot support them.
We already agree with you. Everyone should move to a zero risk region of the planet with abundant resources. [Freak]

Quote:
#2 - CA should not take water away from other states.
It's called commerce.
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#208042 - 31/10/03 11:44 AM Re: Cali Fires
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
You are wrong, pal. North Dakota beats Kansas.

At least in Cash receipts for 1996, they did:

USDA Agricultural Cash Receipts
Ah, well yes, 1996 was a tough year for all agriculture (plus an early heat wave that year dried up a lot of the crop.)

But ON AVERAGE, we're the wheat king.

It's the one thing we have to brag about.

More Kansas Wheat Facts

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#208043 - 31/10/03 11:44 AM Re: Cali Fires
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
I'm done. Just like every other internet argument, this is pointless.

_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#208044 - 31/10/03 11:46 AM Re: Cali Fires
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think I speak for most everyone on the board when I say this:

Spalind, why don't you go hump some sheep? You know, so you can get rid of all the semen you have backed into your brain that's making you stupid.

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#208045 - 31/10/03 11:48 AM Re: Cali Fires
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
Quote:
California led the Nation in crop sales with $17.1 billion, and was the top producing State for 8 of the sector’s top 25 commodities: dairy products, greenhouse and nursery products, eggs, hay, grapes, tomatoes, lettuce, and almonds. California vaulted from third to first place in egg sales with a 27-percent rise in a single year. Three-quarters of California’s farm sales were from crops; fruits and nuts 27 percent, vegetables 23 percent, and greenhouse and nursery 10 percent.
so I suppose alot of EGG FARMS!!!!! got burnt down in these fires??!?!?!?! no, i dont think so...nor did I see any tomato farms or greenhouses going up in smoke!!!! again...we are not talking about the same areas....
The people who live in those home are likely very successful business men and women. I guess you can say they are a product of commerce. (has that been mentioned yet?)

California is generally very successful economically. People buy our products, and people move here for the business. They gotta build their homes somewhere. The mountains outside of LA/San Diego is a logical place to settle.

If you want to stop this sort of development, then boycott the products which come from CA.
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There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count; and those who can't.

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#208046 - 31/10/03 12:05 PM Re: Cali Fires
spalind Offline
Member

Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
I would agree...since my points have already been proven--ie:dumb to build your house in a fire prone area...we should let it die....kind of like the firey embers of the 2000 some odd houses that have burned down to this point...

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#208047 - 31/10/03 12:44 PM Re: Cali Fires
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 26/04/01
Posts: 581
Loc: San Diego, Ca.
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
Quote:
California led the Nation in crop sales with $17.1 billion, and was the top producing State for 8 of the sector’s top 25 commodities: dairy products, greenhouse and nursery products, eggs, hay, grapes, tomatoes, lettuce, and almonds. California vaulted from third to first place in egg sales with a 27-percent rise in a single year. Three-quarters of California’s farm sales were from crops; fruits and nuts 27 percent, vegetables 23 percent, and greenhouse and nursery 10 percent.
so I suppose alot of EGG FARMS!!!!! got burnt down in these fires??!?!?!?! no, i dont think so...nor did I see any tomato farms or greenhouses going up in smoke!!!! again...we are not talking about the same areas....
Actually there is an egg farm on the way up to Julian from San Diego. It was in the fire zone but I'm not sure that it got burned. There's also tomato fields less than 3 miles from my house. It looks like they will be ready for harvesting in the next couple of weeks. Not too many parts of the country still growing tomatos but we are growing them here now. They were spared from the fires. People out here know the risks they take by building in this area. We're willing to take that chance because where else can you visit the beach, mountains and desert all in one day. We pay heavily in state tax and home insurance but for us it's worth the price. Oh, and by the way, can anyone spare a glass of water? cool
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#208048 - 31/10/03 01:26 PM Re: Cali Fires
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by spalind:
I would agree...since my points have already been proven--ie:dumb to build your house in a fire prone area...we should let it die....kind of like the firey embers of the 2000 some odd houses that have burned down to this point...
Again, you are being an idiot. What would you have us all do, live underground were there are no risks from anything? You were losing the argument, so you switched over to the 'water stealing', and that progressed to the agricultural stuff. After you lost those arguments, you said it didn't matter because that wasn't the original argument. [Freak]
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