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#210556 - 25/07/06 11:53 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
MBFlyerfan Offline
Member

Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
Holy crap, now the muslims are going to blow up this board!
_________________________
Chirpa Chirpa Bockala!

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#210557 - 25/07/06 11:57 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
There might be some Canadians who want to blow up this board. [Freak]

Anyone know if you can fit a Jew in a croissant oven?

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#210558 - 25/07/06 11:57 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Holy crap, now the muslims are going to blow up this board!
_________________________
Does anybody remember laughter?

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#210559 - 25/07/06 01:39 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here are a few recent articles from Al Jazeera, the "moderate" English-language Middle Eastern news source:

Israel\'s Goals in the Current Conflict

Boycott Israel

Views of Hezbollah and Hamas

I will refrain from comment because I think the views described in these articles best speak for themselves. When reading, bear in mind that Al Jazeera is almost universally despised within Muslim circles for being too "soft" on Israel and the U.S.

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#210560 - 25/07/06 01:50 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:

Here are a few recent articles from Al Jazeera, the "moderate" English-language Middle Eastern news source:
I would guess that Al Jazeera is a preferred "foreign news source" for Gaston and his varied fellow travelers across Canada and Europe.

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#210561 - 25/07/06 02:09 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Since, like Fox News, we always strive to be "fair and balanced" here at XOC, I have kindly assembled some more links to foreign publications reporting on the events:

Israelis using human shields--BBC

Israel to carve out security zone--The Jerusalem Post

Saudi King warns of broader war--The Daily Star (Lebanon)

Israel rules out rapid truce--AFP

Hey, this is just a friendly post from your redneck, illiterate resident moron from tumbleweed junction here in Southern Oregon. Clearly, I get all my info from the Clear Channel and Bush's official press releases. :rolleyes:
Maybe I'll be better informed if I spend some time in a Canadian bakery fondling hot buns all day.

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#210562 - 25/07/06 02:17 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Is that really you?

_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#210563 - 25/07/06 02:32 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


I almost forgot, this section of Al Jazeera is fucking priceless. If I need a laugh at work, this one never disappoints:

Al Jazeera Conspiracy Theories

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#210564 - 25/07/06 02:39 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Speaking of foreign news sources..... The BBC is running out of anti-Israeli stories and are soliciting Palestinians to send them some anti-Israeli stuff they can run with....



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5213174.stm

Another "foreign news source" headquarted in Atlanta, Georgia, CNN, is admitting that Hezbollah has contolled some of it's reporting....



http://newsbusters.org/node/6552

Quote:
Challenged by Reliable Sources host (and Washington Post media writer) Howard Kurtz on Sunday, Robertson suggested Hezbollah has “very, very sophisticated and slick media operations,” that the terrorist group “had control of the situation. They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn't have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath,” and he even contradicted Hezbollah’s self-serving spin: “There's no doubt that the [Israeli] bombs there are hitting Hezbollah facilities.”

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#210565 - 25/07/06 02:45 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Speaking of foreign news sources..... The BBC is running out of anti-Israeli stories and are soliciting Palestinians to send them some anti-Israeli stuff they can run with....
That's awesome, Madman. I cannot believe that I missed that one. The BBC is a very reliable source of anti-Israeli bullshit. Why don't they just come out and say that they support Jizbowla in this war?

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#210566 - 25/07/06 03:28 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
BIBXTERRA Offline
Member

Registered: 24/04/03
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:

[b]Here are a few recent articles from Al Jazeera, the "moderate" English-language Middle Eastern news source:
I would guess that Al Jazeera is a preferred "foreign news source" for Gaston and his varied fellow travelers across Canada and Europe.[/b]
Hate comes in many forms. True,the muslims hate the jews right now, but the jews hate the muslis equally as this picture shows: "Israeli children sending thier love? [Freak] "



Hezbollahs "greeting cards" to haifa:



All I see are casualties and death and nothing else.

I think we better all take a cold shower on this one. Especially when we start throwing around definitions of Anti-Semitism which intself is a misnomer.
_________________________
BIBXterra

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#210567 - 25/07/06 03:31 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by BIBXTERRA:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:

[b]Here are a few recent articles from Al Jazeera, the "moderate" English-language Middle Eastern news source:
I would guess that Al Jazeera is a preferred "foreign news source" for Gaston and his varied fellow travelers across Canada and Europe.[/b]
Hate comes in many forms. True,the muslims hate the jews right now, but the jews hate the muslis equally as this picture shows: "Israeli children sending thier love? [Freak] "

[/b]
Umm... Can you say "Photoshop"? Elsewise, how do you explain the english love poems on the bombs... Hebrew is the national language of Israel, not English...

Oops. Thank you for playing; please try again.

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#210568 - 25/07/06 03:57 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
BIBXTERRA Offline
Member

Registered: 24/04/03
Posts: 129
Quote:
Umm... Can you say "Photoshop"? Elsewise, how do you explain the english love poems on the bombs... Hebrew is the national language of Israel, not English...

Oops. Thank you for playing; please try again.
[/qb]
Beep. Wrong Answer. This picture was taken from an Israeli Blog and Lisa Goldman was the author. No photoshop here. Also you may be unaware, but english is taught in Israeli Shcools.

Nice try, but keep trying.
_________________________
BIBXterra

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#210569 - 25/07/06 04:15 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by BIBXTERRA:

Hate comes in many forms. True,the muslims hate the jews right now, but the jews hate the muslis equally as this picture shows: "Israeli children sending thier love?
You are full of shit.

Israel's Muslim enemies openly state their goal is the destruction of Israel and death to the Jews. They teach their children that Jews are nothing but pigs and monkeys.

The Jews do not teach their children to hate Muslims.

I've already mentioned that 20% of the population of Israel is Arab. Most of them are Muslims. They live in peace and are treated with respect by their fellow Israeli citizens.

Please show me where Israel's enemies treat Jews with the same respect in their societies. Please show proof that Jews teach their kids hate.

A specious photo that is being displayed on every Islamist and pro-Hezbollah website is not proof of anything.

You probably need to read what Israel's enemies say in their own words.

Start with the Palestinians....

http://www.memri.org/palestinian.html

http://www.pmw.org.il/

Watch some of their TV broadcasts....

http://www.pmw.org.il/tv.html

Show me the same pure hatred coming out of Israel. Show me Israeli's indoctrinating their children into a culture of death and hatred.

Show me.....

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#210570 - 25/07/06 05:29 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
BIBXTERRA Offline
Member

Registered: 24/04/03
Posts: 129
Quote:
Show me the same pure hatred coming out of Israel.
I just did. Here is the picture again:



This is not from a pro Hezbollah blog. It's a Jewish one from israel.

Hre's another example of hate: The JDL:

Quote:
This section is a stub. You can help by adding to it.
[edit]
Anti-Soviet activities
The Jewish Defense League during the early seventies campaigned to allow the emigration of Soviet Jews from the Soviet Union. The organization was linked with a 1970 bomb explosion outside of Aeroflot's New York City office and a 1971 detonation outside of Soviet cultural offices in Washington, DC. Also in 1971, a JDL member allegedly fired a rifle into the Soviet Union's mission office at the United Nations. In 1972 two JDL members were arrested and charged with bomb possession and burglary in a conspiracy to blow up the Long Island residence of the Soviet Mission to the UN. The two JDL members pleaded guilty and were sentenced to serve 3 years in prison for one and a year and a day for the other.

In 1975, JDL leader Meir Kahane was accused of conspiring to kidnap a Soviet diplomat, to bomb the Iraqi Embassy in Washington, and to ship arms abroad from Israel. A hearing was held to revoke Kahane's probation for a 1971 firebomb making incident. He was found guilty of violating probation and sered a one year prison sentence. JDL activities were condemned by Moscow refuseniks who felt that the group's actions were making it less likely that the Soviet Union would relax restrictions on Jewish emigration. On April 6, 1976, six prominent refuseniks, Vladimir Slepak, Alexander Lerner, Anatoly Shcharansky, and Iosif Begun condemned the JDL's activities as "terrorist acts" stating "Such actions constitute a danger for Soviet Jews... as they might be used by the authorities as a pretext for new repressions and for instigating anti-Semitic hostilities." [3]

Durind the 1980's, then JDL Chairman and current Jewish Task Force Chairman Chaim Ben Pesach led a campaign of bombing Soviet targets which he credits as the reason for the complete removal of the ban of Jewish emigration from the Soviet Union and as well as the reason for the fall of the Soviet Union. He has said that the bombings brought strains in US-Soviet relations which he says helped his cause.

[edit]
Controversies
[edit]
Terrorism and the JDL
The Federal Bureau of Investigation has described the Jewish Defense League in Congressional testimony as a "violent" and "extremist" group. In a sidebar in its "Terrorism 2000/2001" report, the Bureau said, "The Jewish Defense League has been deemed a right-wing terrorist group." It identified the group in a 1999 terrorism report as the perpetrator of several bombing and arson incidents that took place between 1980 and 1989. Mary Doran, an FBI street agent, described the JDL in 2004 Congressional testimony as "a proscribed terrorist group," though Doran also acknowledged that she is not involved in "policy and administrative decision-making processes." The group drew heavy criticism for its support of Baruch Goldstein, a JDL member who killed twenty-nine Muslim worshippers at the Cave of the Patriarchs in 1994. The National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism (MIPT) says in its knowledge base that the last known attack by JDL was on 26 February 1992 and that "(t)oday, JDL is not actively engaged in terrorist actions." The FBI suspects that Arab-American Congressman Darrell Issa was targeted by JDL members who planned then aborted a terror attack against his office [4].

The Jewish Defense League denies that it is a terrorist organization or a sponsor of terror. Its website states: "The Jewish Defense League unconditionally condemns terrorism of all forms. Terrorism is never a legitimate means to the furtherance of political goals."[5]

Nevertheless, on a number of occasions the JDL has expressed support for acts of vengeance in reprisal to Arab terrorist attacks on Jews. On October 26, 1981 after two firebombs damaged the Egyptian Tourist Office at Rockefeller Center, JDL Chairman Meir Kahane said at a press conference: "I'm not going to say that the JDL bombed that office. There are laws against that in this country. But I'm not going to say I mourn for it either." The next day, an anonymous caller claimed responsibility on behalf of the JDL. A JDL spokesman later denied his group's involvement, but said "We support the act."[6]

[edit]
Reactions to the JDL
The JDL's approach has been criticized by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) as a "gross distortion" of the situation faced by American Jews. The ADL also states that JDL's founder, Meir Kahane, "preached a radical form of Jewish nationalism which reflected racism, violence and political extremism" and that those attitudes "were replicated" by Irv Rubin, the successor to Kahane [7] [8]. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has added the JDL to its list of watched "hate groups".
This can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

How about the Karp Report, from Deputy Attorney General of Israel, Yehudit Karp. Can be found here:

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0799/9907081.html

Quote:
You probably need to read what Israel's enemies say in their own words.
Agreed. they are no better. Read this commentary by Daniel Pipes:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/21693

This is a real mess for both sides., as one IDF shoulder had put it:

Hey.

I'm an IDF soldier stationed at the Lebanon is border, but got back home for a funeral of someone I knew.

We can't see all the bombing on Lebanon here from Israel (naturaly we're focusing on bombs at Israel), so you're pretty much updating me on what's going on.

I don't want to start arguing about who's right and who's wrong, the finaly word is that it's not right that civilians get hurt in the process, from both sides.

I'm sending you my best wishes from here, and hope that you and your family will be strong and be alright until this horrible situation will be over.

Shachar.

Hopefully more reasonable people will end the madness and peace will come to the middle east.
_________________________
BIBXterra

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#210571 - 25/07/06 07:26 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by BIBXTERRA:

Quote:
Show me the same pure hatred coming out of Israel.
I just did. Here is the picture again:



This is not from a pro Hezbollah blog. It's a Jewish one from israel.
That picture is not an example of hate. You didn't explain the story behind it or how those pictures came to be in the media. You just took on the role of propagandist for Hezbollah.

The girl who wrote the article for the JP explained the pictures in her blog where you pulled them from.

http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/20/2142505.html

It just didn't suit your agenda to do any explaining.

Quote:
Hre's another example of hate: The JDL:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

Is something wrong with you? The JDL IS NOT Israel. They are an American group.

They have nothing to do with the Israeli government and they certainly have absolutely nothing to do with the curriculum taught Israeli children. Nor do they have any influence on Israeli media organizations.

Quote:
Agreed. they are no better. Read this commentary by Daniel Pipes:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/21693
The commentary was not wriiten by Daniel Pipes. It was written by a Lebanese journalist Brigitte Gabriel.

I'm wondering if you actually read it. What she describes is pure hatred and indoctrination.

It was interesting that she also wrote about the anti-Israeli/pro-jihadist hate propaganda that is prevalent not only in the Middle East, but also here in the West in institutions such as colleges and universities.

Is your moral relativism a product of that?

Quote:
This is a real mess for both sides., as one IDF shoulder had put it:
How do you know an IDF soldier wrote that? It was a comment in a blog. It could have been written by anyone, anywhere in the world.

http://lebanesebloggers.blogspot.com/2006/07/day-6-more-attacks.html#c115313406734389156

Quote:
Hopefully more reasonable people will end the madness and peace will come to the middle east.
Considering the fact that Hezbollah, Hamas and the leaders of Iran are NOT reasonable, the likelihood of any lasting peace is a pipe dream of fools.

The goal of terrorists is not peace. What is shameful and pathetic is that you don't realize that fact.

You have failed horribly to back up your propagandistic claims of endemic societal hatred in Israel. It doesn't exist.

The elephant in the room is not equivalent to the flea that occasionally flies by.

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us" .... Golda Meir

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#210572 - 26/07/06 06:38 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#210573 - 26/07/06 07:40 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by BIBXTERRA:
Quote:
Show me the same pure hatred coming out of Israel.
I just did. Here is the picture again:



Nice job publicly embarassing yourself. Go peddle your cultural relativistic garbage somewhere else.

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#210574 - 26/07/06 07:54 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
I'm surprised that many of the people so upset by what Israel is doing in Lebanon (and posting in this thread) are Canadians . . .

-fabien/zizou/bartez
-SE4X4
-BIBXterra

Huh.
_________________________
Does anybody remember laughter?

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#210575 - 26/07/06 08:19 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Tonka Ross Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 2397
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by GrayHam:
I'm surprised that many of the people so upset by what Israel is doing in Lebanon (and posting in this thread) are Canadians . . .

-fabien/zizou/bartez
-SE4X4
-BIBXterra

Huh.
_________________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

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#210576 - 26/07/06 08:26 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by GrayHam:
I'm surprised that many of the people so upset by what Israel is doing in Lebanon (and posting in this thread) are Canadians . . .

-fabien/zizou/bartez
-SE4X4
-BIBXterra

Huh.
Do you have any idea why that is the case, Graham? Is the cultural relativism at the heart of their posts endemic to a significant segment of Canadians? Is it because of the whole mosaic, rather than melting pot, attitude in Canada, and only further exacerbated in this case because of an influx of Muslim immigrants?

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#210577 - 26/07/06 08:38 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Tonka Ross Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 2397
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by GrayHam:
[QUOTE]I think there is still a culture that says, Hey, chill out, wait it out, everything will be fine.

Of course, that's just an opinion . . . I could be full of shit.
Or, the French bloodline in Canada is still alive and well.... laugh
_________________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

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#210578 - 26/07/06 09:01 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmm, no French bloodline...

I think Canadians are more apt to disagree with their government, or any government. Being in a smaller country world affairs seem to affect us more. The city I live in is more than 50 % visible minorities (no I am not one, being from Eastern Europe) I’m well traveled and don’t necessarily see myself living in Canada for the rest of my life.

That combined with a general distrust of the current republican regime in the US (proven out many times.. can you say Iraq) could possibly be what is compelling me to voice an opinion and say hey…. This seems wrong to me… this war could spread and no good can possibly come out of it – unless you consider millions of Lebanese and Israelis dead after the end of it a good thing?

So I don't know perhaps more Canadian's simply give a shit.

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#210579 - 26/07/06 09:02 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's an interesting take. Thanks, Graham. I studied comparative colonialisms a bit, so I can see where you are going with that ... There has been some of work done on what the colonial experience impresses on the collective cutural norms and attitudes of those under imperial rule. A lot of it is social-psychological jargon-infested muck though and highly biased by the new "bottom up" historiography.

I still wonder if the whole "mosaic" phenomenon in Canada is behind a lot of it though. My close friend, Vlad, lives in Toronto. He was born and raised in Ukraine, went to college and grad school in the U.S., and now works (obviously) in Canada. I've visited him a couple times and was amazed how segmented the city's neighborhoods are by ethnic group. It kind of reminded me of the "ghettoization" of many urban Catholic ethnic groups in the 19th century U.S. It wasn't really until after WWI that many American ethnic groups stopped clinging so much to their "hyphenated" (i.e. German-American) identity. So much of the nationalism in the U.S. is centered on ascribing to the "idea" of America--freedom, liberty, meritocracy, representative democracy, etc. On the other hand, I haven't felt any impression of national cohesion in my visits to Canada. It just seems like a bunch of people who are, for the most part, tolerant of one another and believe in large government and quasi-socialistic principles (I haven't been to the Prairie provinces which are far more conservative). I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's just an observation of a foreigner.

ETA: Graham, why did you delete your post?

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#210580 - 26/07/06 09:07 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by SE4X4:
I think Canadians are more apt to disagree with their government, or any government.

So I don't know perhaps more Canadian's simply give a shit.
Actually, based on my travels and conversations with Canadian friends, I found exactly the opposite of both these statements. Just my opinion. After all, I don't live there.

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