FSR, the Ava setup you see from JP3 on the AC board is just bought parts from them and not designed by Ava itself. ClimberRN and AC had a setup very similar to his and all 3 were failures due to severe bumpsteer.

The best setup out there is ClimberRN's(current) and is worth the 900 bucks. For those that haven't gone out and tried to do a real custom setup the go out and start pricing the parts yourself.

FYI the price for steer parts at Peak Nissan are

CL=179
Complete tie-rod assembley=129(set) X 2
total = 440 for a stock new setup.

Sure you can find parts cheaper BUT you still hit atleast 400 for a stock setup. My point is that if you want a strong setup it is will cost more, alot more.

IMO SLR's is WAY to much for what they offer. It isn't even a complete redesign. Also those tie-rod adjusters are going to snap, just give it time. I know I could break them.

I know of 2 guys that are using Ava parts and will be very similar to ClimberRN's setup and will be slightly cheaper and even stronger, and it isn't from any of the current companies.

Other points to consider: Once you have a super stong steer setup, you need to consider the next weak point. Balljoints(given) you will tear through these faster. Your steer box will probably go with a lot of abuse. And you will literally tear off the idler arm from the frame(possibly). You may even snap the spindle.

Carlton is SLR being run by Spencer Senior? He is the one with tons of experience with Nissan's and from what I have heard he and Spencer Jr had a falling out about SLR...it's sad if this is true. As far as them testing their truck I have only seem a few pics over a year ago of their truck on a rock...since then it's all been about desert running. Some real world testing in Moab, Iron Chest etc would be nice to show everyone they have beat there parts up and they have survived.

AC is not new to the Nissan market, they have been in business many, many years and while their steering set up did not work that's part of R&D.

I have had three failures in about 200 sets of tie rod adjusters..and considering two sets were destroyed with trucks with damaged center links I would rather see the adjusters fail then a steering box be ripped off the frame when the tie rod end nuts hit the frame from a worn centerlink..wouldn't you? Xtoolbox thinks his were damaged as he was pulled across the Golden Crack and then he noticed the problem on the stairs afterward...another very extreme situation. Again I am using the FIRST prototype ever made on my truck still with no problems...go figure?

This thread is getting out of hand, SLR deserves more than this from us and so does all the other manufacturers of Nissan parts....and we all wonder why no one wants to spend the time making new parts for Nissan's. Spencer/Dez is it possible if there was a group buy that the price could come down? This was something I was just involved in for parts for my 69 Bronco, we had over 25 people who wanted something and this enabled the manufacturer to drop their prices since they had a big order paid for and ready to go. We are organizing another one for a new soft top being released this month...maybe this will help SLR and all of us out?

that's a good idea todd. we could get a lot of people in the clubs (NJAX, MAXC) to go for that.

I have seen a few stock tie rod adjusters bend and the centerlink was fine, the situation was usually a ditch that was crossed with the tire being jammed in on an angle. Swampwrecker had this happen last summer and he is till using the same centerlink with no wear. You are right though once the centerlink wears it puts more stress on other steering componets.

Ok, For all those complaining about the cost. Do any of you (with exception to TOdd/EOE) have any idea what the liability factor is in redesigning a steering system. All it takes is 1 failure and death, to shut them down. Heck, it doesn't even require a death, just a lawsuit happy lawyer could tie them up in court battles and drain them of all their money. This goes for SLR, Calmini, AC, and EOE. These aren't big multi-million dollar companies that I know of. Calmini and SLr are probably the largest dollar wise, but they have other outlets to make money.

While I agree, the price sounds expensive at first, but look at the posts which show the costs of OEM systems. Also, look at how many D-Rat has gone through. He is not the only one going through CL's like hot cakes. Also, look at all you who have bought the "upgraded" Moog Idler Arm for $80 just to have it fail on the first trip. Yes, there have been more than 1. Just add up what you have already spent in replacement costs, It may be very close to the price of their setup.

Now, I'm not saying that it will work or be a true fix, because I haven't tested it myself. But I can say I like the design. Very simple. Also I spoke with SPencer earlier and he told me that there are 4 wear points. All 4 can be replaced for around $80 (the cost of a new Idler arm). Also, as a start, you don't have to buy the Tie-Rods. You can reuse your stock ones. Or, you could upgrade later to EOE Adjusters (WHich in my opinion are strong enough with a good CL). Or if you would rather, Upgrade to the SLR Adjusters.

Disclaimer: I don't have any of the products I have been speaking of, not have I Bent/Broken any Tie-Rods or CL's. 90% of this breakage is caused by Driver (imho). Learn how to finesse the vehicle and not beat it and with Stock supsension and Steering you will go a long way down the trail. The stock system is weak, and when I do actually break it, I will look very closely at all the options available. But so far I like what I see here.

Cliff

But they were selling them before they were really tested. That to me is dangerous. And they are not as seasoned in the development of original products. The do more resale than manufacturing and design.

Thank you SLR for the response to my original question. Unlike some other people around here I think it is great that you are designing and building serious parts for Nissans.
Price wise, yes less expensive is better, as long as it does not come at the expense of quality. Cheap should not be the first requirement when comes to steering components.

You need to add;

Overhead (building leases, equipment, insurance, maintenance, etc., etc., etc.)
Business loans
R and D costs
Profit

How about a group order with deposits to help bring the price down?

-Chris

You made the correct assumption that I haven't lifted my truck. :p And I pretty much refuse to lift my truck until I see a satisfactory Steering Fix.

Also, I have yet to not go anywhere a lifted X has gone. I may have to take a different line due to wheel base differences, but still through pretty much the same terrain.

Speed kills on the trail. But I will change my statement if you like to 50% driver, 50% weak parts.

Remember, Jeep owners say that 33's are the max tire you should run on the stock Dana 30 Front axle, but there are always the few who can run 35-36" tires with those same components and not have any problems.

Cliff

My pricing may seem a little high, but this is the only way to build parts--proper material, proper welding, proper machining. I build parts to last.

XOC:

Check your market price before you go posting price quotes. The material alone to make a centerlink costs between $250-$300. Factor in 5-7 hours of machining time, which is $250-$350 in labor charges. $250-$300 for the idler/pitman arm building time, laser cutting, gussetting, welding time, and to bore precisely to .6250.
Add an additional $10-$50 in miscellaneous parts and power coating. $1,000 is a high figure; $760 is a low figure. You tell me, master fabricator.

These are not "toothpaste welds"



MeWantSnow!:

"I'll give it 6 months for another aftermarket company to duplicate such a set up at a reasonable price. Just as SLR copied EOE's tie Rod adjustors, changed the look a little bit, and stamped their initials on it....someone will probably do the same to an aftermarket center link. But that's just my 2cents."

That's a pretty sad response. Just like EOE copied Nissan OEM parts, my tie rod adjusters are made from a different material and are heat treated. Enough said.

Olegkha:

"Hey SLR , you think you will get far by offending your customers , and putting down your compedetors ?"

Please state where I have offended a customer. I have NOT put down my competitors in the Nissan aftermarket parts business. I call it as I see it.

"Got any pictures?"







I will warranty my parts against any flaw in manufacturing or materials.

"why would i pay 900 $ for something i dont even how it looks like installed and how it works/flexes on the trail"

Geometry is geometry. If it works in the shop with the torsion bar out and height gauges cycling bump to droop and with 6 months of testing, I know it will work.

"..but where we wheel we get to croll slowly over rocks"

BoarderPhreak

Please refer to my rough price breakdown above.

Dayspring & WQ Bang:

I will look into a way to drop production costs--using bushings instead of bearings, MIG welding instead of TIG welding, cold roll instead of 4130.

Steering is not overated. I designed this system to be the last steering system you will have to buy.

Carlton McMillan:

"Sounds more to me that he is just raising stink." You hit the nail on the head.

Matt Peckham:

"I'm gonna take a wild leap and guess that either Oleg knows that EOE is working on a similar product and he is trash talking, or he doesn't know what kind of abuse SLR puts their trucks through."

Good stuff.

Caver-X:

Thank you for your input.

Olegkha:

"Carlton: all i asked was "lets see some pictures". how the fuck hard is it ?"

Slow down buddy, I do have a business to run.

FSRBIKER:

Thanks for the input. What grade stainless are you using?

Caver-X:

"FWIW, I don't see the SLR price as being too bad. It sounds like they really did their homework, and are using some high-quality materials. Also, if they really put as much time into it as they say they did, you have a lot of R&D to pay for. SLR has always had very high quality of workmanship in what I've seen, no "hack jobs". I'd like to see it under $800, though. I'm also quite curious what the "consumables" cost to replace."

Retail cost for 5/8" spherical bearings is $22 each. 4x$22= $88.00. After 6 months of testing, the bearings hold up just fine.

Carlton McMillan:

"Using curse words does not support your poor writing skills.

There have been pictures of SLR's trucks up on the web for quite some time. What more do you want? A picture of the truck posed ever so beautifully on a rock? A naked chick on the hood? To say that you want to see photographs of the system in action is pointless.

We all know that SLR beats the crap of of their trucks both at speed and crawling. And (correct me if I am wrong) MOST of the problems have occured at speed while going up a hill, not while going really slow over a rock.

That being said.. As valuable as pictures are, real world testing of the product speaks more to me. AC had some "great" pics of their steering set up, EOE had wonderful pics of the tie rod center links but real world testing of both has shown that there have been problems. AC's steering completely failed and EOE has been having problems with the links bending. So because SLR has been doing this YEARS longer than AC or EOE I have more faith that their products have been properly tested before release to market than I do in pictures of a rig on the trail.

Now with that out of the way.. if it were to be proven with real world testing that SLR's steering was just as weak at the AC one or that they were bending things like the EOE tie rods then I would lose ALL respect for them as a manufacture and have serious doubts as to their abilities. However if we look at their track record we can see that their products have lived up to what they have advertised.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.. but are they the words you want to hear?

P.S. I still think they are asking too much for it."

Thank you for the kind gesture and comments.

an1malch1n:

"Also those tie-rod adjusters are going to snap, just give it time. I know I could break them."

Give me a call. I'll give you a smokin deal. 928.667.4757

DesertRat:

Thank you for your support; looking forward to your feedback and testing.

FSRBIKER:

"Carlton is SLR being run by Spencer Senior? He is the one with tons of experience with Nissan's and from what I have heard he and Spencer Jr had a falling out about SLR...it's sad if this is true. As far as them testing their truck I have only seem a few pics over a year ago of their truck on a rock...since then it's all been about desert running. Some real world testing in Moab, Iron Chest etc would be nice to show everyone they have beat there parts up and they have survived."

You seem to know quite a bit for being located in Newton, New Jersey. Come on down to SLR--I would love to show you our operation.

Spencer SR. does not sit at the desk and wait for the phone to ring. My father has been around Nissans for 30+ years. Our engineering department, myself and my father all feed input into our products, testing, and R&D.

"This thread is getting out of hand, SLR deserves more than this from us and so does all the other manufacturers of Nissan parts....and we all wonder why no one wants to spend the time making new parts for Nissan's."

My feelings exactly. I am only trying to help out the Nissan community by redesigning Nissan's OEM centerlink with high quality materials and serviceable wear points.

Looking forward to hearing from all of you. Please feel free to call me at 928.667.4757 or email me at info@spencerlowracing.com for more information.

I for one appreciate what you are doing. You will hear from in about a month after I save up my pile of cash so I can send it to you. I don't want any cold rolled steel or cheap bearings. If I wanted that I would stick with Nissan's POS parts.

If I am ever out near your shop Spencer I would love to stop by, see the shop and shoot the shit. As far as the EOE tie rod adjusters we are using heat treated 416 Stainless, some uses for this material are gears, pinions, axles and after much discussion with my steel supplier this was deemed as the right choice.

I know how production costs are so let everyone know if a group buy is something that could help offset these and your initial costs of developing the system....I am sure you would rather see a group buying 20-25 of these systems than a few orders trickling in.

The price is $716 after core. The Idler arm brace and adjusters are optional.

why couldn't you post these pictures before ( if you did, then where )

Thank You !

It really is amazing that a company has to deal with this much crap to manufacture a product that many people want and noone else seems to be able to come through with yet. The childish challenges and demands are rediculous. With such a limited aftermarket available to us as it is , it is outstanding to see someone going to mat for making our trucks a little bit better for doing what we want to do.

Some of you guys have aspirations of "rock crawling" slow difficult trail runs while others want to run less extreme faster trails. SLR seems like they are making a serious attempt to appease all of us even though their primary emphasis in the past was that type of extreme driving.

As the slower extreme crawling type off-roading seems to be gaining in popularity they are trying to appease those that are interested in that aspect of the sport.

I don't have the cabbage right now to do everything I want to do with my truck. Does that mean their stuff is too expensive or that I need to save some money if I want what they have to offer ? It seems really simple. If you don't like what someone sells , noone is holding a gun to your head making you buy it. Why is SLR any different ? If you want something bad enough you bite the bullet and do it.

Why engage them in confrontation ? Why alienate a company that is trying to make making our trucks better as their single solitary aim in business ? It just doesn't make any sense.

Not whining at all. I think it's a great step towards fixing an inherent problem. My only problem is that as of right now, it's not an affordable solution to many of us. Even at 700, it's still a stretch for alot of people. However, SLR said himself he would look into cost cutting materials, w/o sacrificing strength.

I'm excited that this is the first of what will most likely be MANY steering components coming out. I think the healthy competition will drive some of the prices down and make the part more afordable to people who really need it.

How is bump steer?

Pricing looks good, design looks good, give me a few weeks and I'll order. Why is it that Nissan organizations always have people that bitch about the pricing of quality products (or any products being made for their benefit)? We do have less aftermarket support, but the support we do have rocks. At least we don't own Honda's and have to wade through all the crap they make for them I'm just glad there is finally a system designed and made for the X. The group buy idea is a great one and perhaps a thread could be started to gauge interest?

Charlie

I agree with ChuckH. I was looking through aftermarket parts for the Grand Cherokee, and it's nowhere near as organized as for Xterras. I had a really hard time looking for simple items, like exhausts or shocks.

What ?

There are ten times as many products for the Grand Cherokee than the Xterra.

Exactly, and it's a PIA to determine what is crap, and what is not. For the most part products made for Nissans are fewer, but of higher quality IMO. I'm personally willing to spend a little more for my Nissan. If I wanted the aftermarket for a Dodge/Jeep I would have bought one. Nissans take a little more effort and time to mod, but I'll suffer with that. I like the Nissan vehicles much better.

I agree. It just takes a while to find them unless you know exactly where to look. With the Xterra, you go to XterraParts, Calmini, EOE, SLR, or 4X4Parts, and there they all are, laid out for you to see.

With the JGC, you (a lot of times) have to look at individual manufacturers' pages to see what is available. Not so much with lifts, but with stuff like exhausts, shocks, etc.

Of course, I have only started looking.

I kind of have a dilemna...
I am being offered a 1998 JGC TSi 4x4 5.2L V8 in exchange for my 2000 Xterra 4x2 V6. The Jeep has about 60,000 miles on it, and my X has about 50,000. I know I want that Jeep, but I'm probably going to pay a lot more for maintenance. What do you guys think?

I have to agree with Dez/SLR on the quality of their products and work. I have two of their products, and they're both quite nice in terms of materials, welding, fit-and-finish, etc. On phone pre and post sales are also great.

Dez - don't take it the wrong way... As many seem to agree, the price is a bit high for many of us. I don't think anyone is questioning your quality, as I know I'm certainly not. If that group buy-in ever happens, I'd be very open to purchasing this SLR product!

Keep up the good work, and seriously - thank you!

Oleg - chill, man!

Now you're really not going to be invited to sports bar night with the Xterra driving Lakers fans.

Trade it.