Can anyone please post pics of their truck after doing a PML (tbar crank and shackles)? I'm trying to decide if I should just do the PML or also do a 2" body lift. The BL of course will add a lot of work but I'm trying to see how big of a differnce it'd make. I'm not going for performance here, just appearance. I'm sure 33's will fit fine w/ a PML & BL but what about with just a PML? Is anything past 32's pushing it?

Oh and if you have a PML & 2" body lift pics would be great as well.

This is with a PML (Calmini shackles) and 32X11.5X15 BFG AT/KOs.

higher pic = without PML
lower pic = with PML... or PWL in my case
like my tiny tires?

Unfortunately, I didn't get much pics of just my PML, it was only on for a week before I tackled the BL

Here's a pic of mine with 32's and no lift.

Here's a pic of mine with the same tires, just a PML and a 2" BL


and install pics front and rear: (notice the amount of arrival/departure angles that can be obtained with bumper modification

32x11.50 BGF AT KO's and shackle lift. I added Sway-a-Way torsion bars as well.

For those of you with 32's do you feel like you could go any bigger?

Thanks for all the pics guys, keep em comin.

PML and 2" body lift with 33"

Simple at home project.
You need:
four peices of 2x3/8" Steel 8" long
Drill, and bolt in place of OEM shackle. Use spacers (3 SAE washers) in place of bends. If you want more information I'll post it. I have part drawings if you need them.




Bigger tires? 33 might work, rubbing becomes an issue if you enter a steep driveway at an angle on a daily basis. I have 32's and trimed out the wheel well as much as neccisary to make that work, cant remeber if there is more room

Here is mine...Just did it this morning.....

[img]http://storage.msn.com/x1pmAkndzHuOffh7M...pTQWvjtybZWL3DM[/img]

Looks VERY Awesome! YAY for new tires!!

I think so, I've got absolutely no rubbing/clearance issues at all with 32's, even under full stuffage. I also haven't trimmed or cut anything off.

Nice color!! Good to see more Hot Lava on here!!

Just got new scoots to go with the PML
BFG 265/70/17's.....they just barely rub making a full u-turn. need to trim a plastic tab off, and will fix that.

New Pic:

[img]http://storage.msn.com/x1pmAkndzHuOffh7M...L7z1p9wGQ6v2nus[/img]

33x10.5 Superswamper TSL Radials with a PML. Removal of plastic in front and behind front tires.

PML with stock tires:



PML with 32" tires

I'm not going to go any bigger. I just don't see the need for the off-roading I do. Though it appears that there is room for more (in a static position only), for me it wouldn't be worth it to go to 33s. Even though I am going to get UCAs to get the full range of motion back (some day), i'm really happy with the tires I selected, both for the size and type.

Besides, they're brand new and paid for.

I've got 265/70/17's with no shackle or t-bar mods and NO RUBBING even under full lock. Why did you need shackles and whatnot?

I have these same 265/70/17 tires and mine DO rub occasionally and I have no lift so go figure..

I also did some trimming, and the rubbing happens sometimes in reverse at full turn, like when pulling out of a parking spot... Who knows, maybe my t-bars are saggin, although I doubt it at 45k

Did I need the PML?...Well no, but for $50 bucks and a couple hours of my time, I like the extra clearance and the way it looks.

Well, for that price...why not!! I do admit it looks nice. Any change with suspension action in front with cranked t bars? My front bounces a bit due to insufficient rebound damping on the stock shocks due to the brush guard. I am looking to go to a Built Bilstein or other type of shock. I was thinking of cranking up the front 1".

Yup. You'll like the result of doing the PML. The big problem is, after you do it, you'll just want to go all the way with the rest of the 3" lift.

The one factor when talking tires is that they are just like the shoes we wear. They don't all fit exactly the same even though they are listed as the same size. Manufacturers have differing tolerances. The block pattern of the tread plays a role in how well a tire will clear. A BFG AT has a square profile as compared to the POS Grabbers that came on the truck with their rounded profile.

Rob

PML (AALs) with 32s

Very true, I got my PML in march, getting a 2" BL and then the 3" SL after that. It's funny to think that 1.5" makes a difference but it does.

FWIW, thoguht I'd share some shots of my X with the PML on the travel ramp at SLR. (Thanks again, SLR, for hosting Destination Xterra.) Calmini shakles and the rear sway bar is disconnected. Did better than I thought I would, though it doesn't seem like as much when looking at the pics I guess. Could've gotten a skosh more with longer shocks, but they're on the way!

They're a bit dark (no flash) but the rear wheel stuffed it pretty good. Wheels/tires are 32X11.5X15 on AR Baja Chromes w/5" backspacing.

Bob -

Interesting...the front tire on the ramp isn't stuffed much...looks like there'd be another 3-4" uptravel or so to go if you could get it fully stuffed..and that would get you proportionally further up the ramp, improve the RTI quite a bit.



Do you have bumpstop extensions, or was it that something else was a limiting factor?

No bumpstop extensions; the only other suspension change I've made thus far was to add a set of Calmini sway bar disconnects I picked up from GrnX in AZ.

Spotter told me I started to spin a wheel and to stop. Now that I think about it, I don't know which wheel was spinning, the rear left or the front right. I'm guessing the left rear, and was hoping that longer shocks would have helped (still running the blown stockers).

In the midst of assembling the rest of the SL, tho. A set of lightly used Rancho 9000s and rear spring packs with the SLR 3AALs installed is on the way from a NorCal Xer who went SAS, and hopefully I'll be able to pick up UCAs shortly.

sorry to ask a stupid question, im a noob to all this...but what does PML stand for

also what does SAS stand for...ive seen it in the advanced 4wd forum

PML: Poor man's lift- longer rear shackles or AAL and t-bar crank

SAS: Solid Axle Swap-change from independent front suspension to front axle.

what work goes into a PML? From one pic it just looks like you drop the leaf springs down with brackets

Yes, rear work is shown on one of my pics on first page and adding torsion on the t-bars to lift the front. The adjustment bolts are located in the cross member at the top of the picture:

also do an alignment... unless you hate your tires.

That's correct. Those are the longer shackles. Easy to do and gets you about 1.5" of lift

hate to sound like a total newbie but i am im thinking about doing a PML can you do the shackles without the tweaking the torsion bars or will you look like a stink bug which is probably the case and in the picture of the t-bars do you just crank the bolt down like 1 turn one side 1 turn other side and walk it into place and how do you know when to stop.Maybe i need to find some written instructions has any body seen some.Thanks in advance for any reply!!

I havent seen it but lifting just the rear [positive rake] would look very odd on the X because of it's raised roof area. Use a floor jack to see what it will look like.
T-bars: measure it from the wheel well to the ground, jack it up so the tire is 1.5 inches(or what ever your lift is) turn until they touch the ground. Lower it from the jack check your measruement, repeat until its close enough for you. Then get an alignmet.
If there is an easier way, it would be nice to know.

medistorm i have read alot of your post and it sure sounds like you know whats up. so i would like to confirm in doing a PML and shackles i dont need to worry about the rear shocks stock should be fine. i can leave my swaybar on? and my stock steering should be fine?.Thanks in advance for reply

Thats what I did, but I took the sway bar off a few months later, didnt change much in day to day driving.

Wow im a slacker on the PM Boom, I sent you the part drawing.

thx medistorm why did you take the sway bar off did you PM the instructions to me i did not see them if you did or did not could you send them again.i hear the only draw back to the t-bar is they can snap easier but i would think you would have to hit something pretty hard I got a 2WD stick to mostly to fire roads and lite trails im new to whellin so i take it pretty easy have you seen any problems with yours when you hit the trails hard. Thanks

I sent a PM to someone who requested a part drawing of the shackles I built 3 weeks ago, hence me being a slacker.
I took the sway bar off to improve rear articulation finding minimal on-road handling changes I opted to leave it off rather than build a disconect.
Snapping t-bars does happen although if you figure on how many it has happened to vs. how many have cranked the t-bars, the probability is low, but the risk is there. Some people's bars just break at random with no PML or adjustments.

Thanks Mediastorm in being patient with my noobie questions it is very appreciated(sp).Im going for it.I haven't noticed diffent size shackles like on calmini or other sites is their just one basic size?I am asuming so but ya know what they say about ass-u-m-ption. :rolleyes: when i do the shackles you jack up the rear of Xterra put it on stands and then jack up rear axel to take weight off then pull and install new shackles correct? thanks again!!!

The shackle install is very easy -

1. Jack up the rear and set the frame on jack stands.
2. Remove the 2 nuts holding the shackle bolts.
3. Slide the old shackle out (this is a little tricky on the drivers side due to the exahust, but it will come off)
4. Connect the new longer shackles to the upper mounts - tighten the nut/bolt finger tight.
5. Use the sisor jack to help align the leaf spring with the shackle and install the lower nut/bolt.
6. Tighten all bolts and set the X back on the ground.

The T-bar tweak isnt much harder -
1. Lift the X in the front - set the frame on stands.
2. Loosen the lock nut (this is the top 19mm nut of the pair on the top side of the T-bar adjuster and you will likely need 2 19mm wrenches although a 3/4" will work in a bind)
3. Turn the adjuster clockwise to raise your X (I found that each full rotation lifted my X not quite 1/4" so 5-6 full rotations would be a good starting point)
4. Lower the X off the stands and measure the distance between the upper control arm and the bump stop (look and you will see what I am talking about.) This distance should be somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4" (the less space to the stop = more lift)
5. measure both sides of your X and adjust as desired making sure to keep the height even on each side.
6. Re-tighten the lock nuts on the top of the adjusters.
7. Get the front end aligned and enjoy.

Don't be afraid of the T-bar adjustment - it is something you will need to learn. Even an untouched X will start to sag in the front and require adjustment now and then as the T-bars lose strength.
Remember nothing is free - in gaining front lift with a PML, you are giving up droop. That being said a PML is a great cheap way to firm up the feeling of the front end change the appearance of your X.

MMNIAC thanks for the feed back and great instructions im going to hang on to those. I thought once you had the X on jack stands you should use a floor jack to lift the rear axel to get the weight off the shackel so the spring does not slam down on you.thanks

Now with the perfect set of instructions here, I was wondering about new shocks. I plan on doing my PML this weekend, and was eventually going to get new shocks. My ultimate goal is to build up to the 3 inch full suspension lift. But if I buy shocks now should I buy ones that will work with a 3 inch lift, or is that not a good idea becuase of the lenghts of travel it has??

If you are doing a shackle PML then you should buy extended length shocks. The front shocks remain the same lifted or unlifted. That is unless you get slrs tubular A arms which allow for more travel. However i dont' think teh increase in travel is significant to warrant longer shocks unless you are planning on running no front swaybar

I think shackles are available in 1.5 and 2" lifts. The mfg. should list what lift they are for on the product information.
The spring will have a tendancy to spring up not down. A leaf spring's resting state is fully curved (up), loading a leaf spring makes it flat (down). Put jack stands unter the forward leaf bracket and rest the differential on the jack. the weight of the axle is where all the force comes from once the shackels are off. the springs will flex upward if there is any remaining tension on them. Depending on what shape your springs are in, you may have to pry them down to get the pins out as I did. This is where a second light duty bottle jack is nice, but not a nessecity. It allows you to control the spring very precicely.

Also, stock shocks will work with a PML but longer can be used if you plan on getting a full lift later.

I just remembered, be sure your lift is even from left to right or it may give you issues when it comes time to do the alignment.

This is a great thread!!! I had asked about this in the "backyard mechanic" forum and was refered here. you guys have given a lot of VERY helpful info and i think im ordering my shackles tomorrow. one more question though.... anyone have a good idea as to how far the tbars can be cranked (safely that is)? i ask because i read in another thread about shackles AND AAL's with a tbar crank. figure it might give the X that kind of funky "forward" looking slope but didnt know how much of one. im just looking for some opinions on this. thanks again guys, it's al very helpful!!!

You can safely do about 1.5" up front lift...which matches the 1.5" you get from the 3" longer than stock shackles.



If you add AAL's, you get another 1.5" of rear lift..and that porn star/rear end up in the air posture.

The rear a bit higher, like stock, is intended to give some settling room when loaded up...too high a butt makes the rear swing wide in turns by raising the center of gravity in the rear more than in the front...but, it can improve hill climb performance at the expense of pretty much everything else.