Is anyone who installed the AC upper a-arms having camber problems? I did bring the front about 2 1/2 inches, and then got it alligned. It drives fine but it seems that the camber is off. I looked at the adjustments on the a-arm and it's adjusted to the max.
I looked at gothamist's pics and it seems he's having the same thing. Is that normal?
If you look at it, it looks like this \ /
take a look...



Is it just me?

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01 SE Super Black

When I had my truck aligned here are the specs they gave me on camber:

Nissan spec is 0.1 to 1.1 degrees on each front wheel, they were able to get the left one to 1.0, the right one to 1.1.

Cross camber spec is -0.8 to +0.8, mine is at +0.4.

The only thing they couldn't quite get back into spec was the left and right caster (cross caster is within spec, though.)

Any chance you cranked up the lift more than you meant to?

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Vikram/gothamist -- MAXC member
http://www.4x4LO.com

Well here is mine they got it all in perfect factory spec's.



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[This message has been edited by SSRXterra (edited 08-06-2001).]

What did they get your caster to?

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Vikram/gothamist -- MAXC member
http://www.4x4LO.com

I will have to find the spec sheet I believe its somewhere in my X so let me see and I will post it. I know it was all correct because I remember being quite shocked once I heard the news. I first took my truck to NTB and they couldnt get it in spec's, so I set an appointment up with 4wheelwholsalers, and 40 minutes after I dropped off the truck I was driving out a perfectly happy man.

------------------

I only raised it by 2 1/2 inches. I'm not sure what's wrong... What does the caster do? Does that affect the camber at all?

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01 SE Super Black

gothamist / SSRXterra,
Are you running with the add a leaf & shackles? How much did you have to lift the front to level it out? How much lift in the front are you guys getting away with?
Also, I didn't replace the stock torsion bars. Would that have something to do with the camber?

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01 SE Super Black

[This message has been edited by stormy (edited 08-06-2001).]

I'm running both aal's and shackles in the back, but I have quite worn/trashed spring packs. How much distance do you have from the bumpstop to the upper a-arm? This is what I have.



p.s. the upgraded torsion bars shouldn't affect your camber or caster at all. For a good explanation of what those are, try here.

------------------
Vikram/gothamist -- MAXC member
http://www.4x4LO.com

The distance on mine is almost 2". I also looked at the camber adjustment. It looks like there is a little room for adjustment. Maybe next time I shouldn't leave it up to Pep Boys for an allignment.
How much were you able to bring up the front?

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01 SE Super Black

[This message has been edited by stormy (edited 08-06-2001).]

The reason I'm avoiding that question is that it has a pretty meaningless answer, IMHO, unless you know exactly where you started from. I had my t-bars cranked up pretty high before (less bumpstop clearance than I have now) because I was compensating for the aal's I installed the month before, and therefore I only got about 1.5" out of the AC lift. However, where I had my t-bars adjusted to, I couldn't get the truck aligned to factory specs (camber or caster.) So me saying "I got 1.5 inches" doesn't help you much, because your torsion bars were probably cranked up to a different level than mine were. Make sense?



------------------
Vikram/gothamist -- MAXC member
http://www.4x4LO.com

It makes sense, but your truck looks level. I guess what I'm saying is with the AC lift installed and the t-bars adjusted to level the truck out, I can't get the camber at the right angle.
I have the aal and shakles installed and I can't get the to look proper. Is there any other method, that you know of, of lifting the front without using the t-bars?

------------------
01 SE Super Black

Stormy came over last night and we talked about it. I suggested he reindex his T bars 2 clicks and try adjusting. if that's too much go down one. I suggested 2 because if he already has them at the max, and he goes up one setting, he may reach the max and find he needs to reindex, meaning he'll have to remove the nuts all the way back out again... whereas if he goes up 2, he may quickly find out that it's too much, in which case it'll be easier to remove them.

Am I ok in assuming this?

I don't think that would affect the camber problem stormy seems to be having, but for what it's worth I had the end of my anchor hanging down about 2" below the frame crossmember before I threaded the bolt and started cranking them. I have plenty of adjustment left, and the anchors are recessed about .5" in the crossmember (meaning they are more protected from rocks.)

Hope that helps...

One more thing to put in the mix... I called AC and they said that the spec for the AC lift as far as the distance from the bump stop and the pad on the a-arm should be no less than 1/2" (I wonder why SLR's spec says no less than 3/4"?) and you will be able to get the camber and caster adjustment into factory spec. Again, I have 2" of space.
AC also said that if they hace any problems to call and they will explane how to get it into spec... I'll be taking it in on saterday afternoon to allign it.

I'll let you know...

You're measuring the wrong bumpstop.
Even a stock Xterra, at stock ride height, with stock control arms doesn't have 2" of room between the upper bumpstop and the upper control arm.

I'm going by what SLR and AC have for instructions... If that's wrong, Then what is the right bump stop so I can get this thing finished and looking and riding proper???

Why are you using SLR's specs ?

Regardless, all of you are going to have major problems soon with the amount of lift you've dialed in up front.

I've been running about 1.25" of clearance from the upper bump stop to the upper arm, and my steering crosslink is now toast, the end bushings are shot, and I have 3 degrees of toe-in play at the wheels.

A new one is going on next week, which should hold up for another 10,000 miles.

I used them for a comparison. You see Ian, when someone is having a problem, they go look at simmilar products to compare and try to find an answer.
As for your review in the lift... I don't remember seeing "steering crosslink is now toast" or "the end bushings are shot" in your write up in the reviews section.
I'm just looking for an anwser to my question. Thanks for your 2 cents.
:rolleyes:

Umm, why would you compare the specs on trucks with differently designed A-Arms? That is a bad comparison and a bad idea.

Ian said "Why are you using SLR's specs?" I wasn't using them, just comparing them to see if I could find an answer.
There are no illustrations with the AC instructions. I used the AC instructions and some of the pictures from SLR. While looking at the SLR install, I noticed that they had a spec for bumpstop-to-pad. The AC instruction didn't. I called AC to get the spec from them (as I stated in one of my earlier posts). If you read my post, I was only wondering why the specs were different. At what time did I say I was using the SLR specs???
FYI - I'm looking for help. Isn't that one of reasons for starting this message board?

Now I see how this member rating thing works! Disagree with XOC and it goes down
Whatever! I see you pull that sh|t all the time... Pick and choose who you help.
I think you know a sh|t load about the X but, who would want to post a problem in fear that you could or would technically shred them instead of help them out.
Fvck this

Stormy,

Hope this helps…I know a couple of people running the AC lift and they have been able to get alignments within all the factor specs including camber without too much of a problem using 31" tires with moderate amounts of torsion bar adjustments.

I'm not sure actually what you meant by bringing the front up 2.5" inches but if you cranked the T-bars that much you will likely have problems. Reindexing the T-bars is what AC recommends I believe. However, if you do have 2" of space between the upper bumpstop & upper control arm then you don't have much of a torsion adj. at all or not enough in my opinion. I would think that 3/4" - 1 1/2" is more like what you should be aiming for. When the front is aligned properly the tires should look more like | |

I would recommend you consult with the vendor to help resolve any problems, clarify the instructions, etc. then find a shop that does computerized thrust angle alignment.

BTW I think everybody else is trying to help, sometimes advice doesn't always come across cleanly or is accepted as constructive

Good luck and let us know the resolution

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: Xtoolbox ]

Okay, can someone clear something up for me? Assuming you don't run out of threads on the torsion bar adjusment bolt, what is the point of reindexing them? All that seems to change is the angle the torsion bar anchor makes with the frame crossmember, not the actual amount of twist the bar is undergoing due to tension in the system. How does this change anything? (Preload, etc...)

I've asked the techs at a few Nissan dealerships about this very question and they've all agreed with me--reindexing isn't neccessary, or even beneficial, until you run out of adjustment on the torsion bar anchor bolt.

So what am I missing?

This is exactly why i am having a shop install my lift.

The total ground to bumper lift was about 2.5".

I think I finally have it fixed. I did as AC recomended. I'm not sure why it worked, but here it is.
I put the truck on a lift. Then backed out the T-bar bolts completely. I re-index each side 2 notches. I counted a total of 29 turns per side on the bolts. I then lowered the truck and drove it around for about 15 minutes. Then looked at the bumpstop to pad and it was about 3/4"on the drivers side and 1/4" on the passengers side. The camber was just slightly off. I lowered the passengers side 2.5 turns and it is now sitting level and the camber looks good. It could use a very slight camber adjustment but as of right now I am very happy with the result.

gothamist :
I don't think that the re-index help with the camber. But it did make me look closer at the bumpstop to pad distance. Also, It looks like the passenger side took less tuns, not equal turns, to raise it level.

Thank-you gothamist, SSRXterra, Xtoolbox, and Matt for your help on this.

hehe, and I don't even have the AC lift, just get to live vicariously through yours...

Matt

Nothing. Reindexing is only required when you run out of thread.

Not thread, adjustment

So now you are a professional ?

When you are out of thread, the bolt is all the way up to the frame cross member.

I didn't vote for you one way or another. If your rating went down, it's due to your lousy attitude during this thread, and votes from other people.

I don't choose to help anyone out. Everyone gets equal treatment, until they throw a fit like you.

You asked for help and I was just getting started when you decided my advice wasn't worthwhile.

Good luck making friends here, you have a fine start.

Well, I'm not to worried about making friends on a message board. I do have some good ideas and helpful hints for people when I am able to help. I have received many emails from people who were asking for help. And you know what, I helped them. I didn't give them a uninformed blow-off answer. If I can't help, I tell them "sorry, I can't help you" or I read what they wrote and say "maybe try this" or "this is how I did it". Not "Why are you using SLR's specs?". If you had taken the time to read I wasn't using them, just comparing them to see if I could find an answer. Look at gothamists posts... now there's a helpful person. Good input, give usful advice for my problem, he even supplied photo to referance what he was talking about.
Whatever Dude...

Maybe I missed something.
I asked why you were using the SLR specs, at which point you should have said you weren't.
Instead, you posted 3 times in a row, getting more irate with each post.

I was looking for more information from you before just spewing out suggestions like most people on this board.

You said : "Why are you using SLR's specs ?
Regardless, all of you are going to have major problems soon with the amount of lift you've dialed in up front.
I've been running about 1.25" of clearance from the upper bump stop to the upper arm, and my steering crosslink is now toast, the end bushings are shot, and I have 3 degrees of toe-in play at the wheels."

Ian, This doesn't sound like you're trying to gather info or be helpful. It sounds like to me your explaining that people with the SLR / AC lift are stupid for installing them.
If you are actually that unhappy, You shouldn't do such a glowing write up about a lift. You sound pretty unhappy, almost dissatisfied.

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: stormy ]

Maybe you misunderstood it.

I have the SLR lift installed, and am neither stupid, or unhappy, but I don't have the front end set too high like SSRXterra and Gothamist.

The higher you go, the steeper the steering tierod angle gets, which causes more leverage on the bushings on the centerlink (and everything else), which causes premature wear.

I was in the process of explaining this to you, when you decided to just bitch at me and go with the "crank it up real high, it looks cool" advice you had already received.

It's your truck, do with it as you please.

Umm, right Ian. I'm the one with my torsion bars cranked up way too high...funny how your truck looks to have even steeper lower a-arm angles than mine does.



My truck looks to sit about this high as well, and I have a 2" body lift installed...so which of us has our lifts cranked up too high again?

I appreciate you sharing knowledge, as I'm sure others do. The difference is I don't have to put down others in order to make my experience and advice seem credible...perhaps you could learn from that.

Easy guys,
I'm sure that Ian is just becoming frustrated because he has taken a hobby (his X), and made into work (admin of this forum)... and that probably takes all the fun out of both.

I am looking for a little guidance from you Ian. I hope you receive this request for information with positive favor.

I hope I understand this correctly.
I too have the SLR lift (Stage Two with T-AALs and shackels). I am currently running with about 1 inch clearance between the bumpstop and upper A-arm. I have not noticed my steering link to be failing at this time (just installed my EOE tie rod links yesterday, and checked for slop then), but I only have a few thousand on the lift so far.

Would you be kind enough to explain the failure of your steering link (specifically), the suspected cause (excessive T-bar lift... Am I doomed?), and the recovery costs.

For all: This sounds like a potentially costly issue all those considering a lift purchase. All X lifts (so far) are manufactered on the same concept... Extended A-arm/Ball joints that support extended T-Bar lift so factory alignment specs can be maintained.
This steering link issue could be a serious problem.

Also, Is SLR going to get you a replacement set of A-Arms to correct the fact that the bumpstop bumper on the A-Arm doesn't quite line up correctly with the bumpstop at full droop. (He noted that the 2nd run of arms would correct this issue. I am not at all pleased with this considering the price).

Thanks for your time,
Kennedy

Rumor has it that AC has a new steering system in the works. Actually two of them. A "budget" model that gets the job done, and a "balls-to-the-wall" system that kicks ass. From what I understand, these should take care of the issues you are discussing... Stay tuned, or call Nissan Mike or Lady Nissan www.4x4parts.com .

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: Caver-X ]

You guys (east coast jack-offs) crack me up. You go out of your way just to find a problem with anything I say or do. I did not put Stormy down until he had posted 3 things putting me down. It's like you have blinders on to your own species, and only see fault in people west of the Mississippi.

That picture of my Xterra was right after installation, prior to any adjustment, because you ECJO's wanted to see pictures and were whining.

I now have about 1.25" of space between the bumpstop and control arm, which was what I was getting to before Stormy decided to bitch and moan.

Go back to your kiss-ass AF board if you want too spread your limited knowledge of suspension systems.

You might want to start a "Blown Out CV Joint and Broken Tierod" forum over there since you guys are so good at breaking stuff while driving like idiots...

Sorry, I'm done posting information on XOC.

If you want answers, talk to a "professional" like Gothamist, who has owned a 4X4 for 2 years, not someone like me who's been doing it since 1982.

I think that is just a rumor, Nissan Mike was just at the Colorado run and all he did was weld a sleeve over his tie rods(they can not be adjusted anymore) to prevent them from snapping and from what another Nissan owner said his centerlink was toast by time he left. I would have assumed he would have had at least a prototype installed on his truck for the run, it would have been a good place to test it out.

WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

You are a whiny f*cking baby. You make dumb-ass statements like this every couple of months. Are you going to leave this board now like you had to leave the ITW board because people were "attacking" you? Maybe you should tell everyone again how you never finished high school because it wasn't "challenging enough" or how you joined MENSA when you were 6 years old, perhaps people will listen to you then.

Every once in a while, I think your gigantic GOD COMPLEX has eased up a bit but then you show me that if anything, it's gotten worse: "I'm not gonna post any more info cause people just won't listen to me. WWWAAAHHH."

Sad, sad, sad.

Well don't I feel like a bystander during a drive by.
Honestly, I will ask Gothamist's opinion as well, but since you have the same lift I was hoping you would share some insight into what i should look out for. Perhaps you would email your thoughs?

I'm not interested in flexing attitudes just assimilating information to help assist in the decision process of my upgrade/repair route.

Thanks for the assistance if anyone cares to share.

'East Coast Jack-Off's'? You think of that one all by yourself? Does that include EOE, whom you have bought tie rod adjusters from? Or is this just your "tongue-in-cheek, dry British wit"? You posted that pic for your lemmings who wanted to see the lift.

Bad day Ian? A bit too much 'XOC stress' perhaps?

Or just jealous that there is a board that offers 4x4 info and doesn't cater to the bullsh*t that prevails here at the Xtraordinarily Obsolete Clique? That must be it, as you said yourself: "XOC continues it's downward spiral into the bottomless pit of boringness and sameness." It's either that or you're bent out of shape because 'an1malch1n' made it thru the Iron Chest, which you couldn't get more than 300 feet into with 3" of lift and more articulation. Oh, but that's right, Trey told you that you couldn't have made it through anyway.

Go have a beer and a cigarette Ian.

"East Coast Jerk-Offs"

Thanks Ian, you just confirmed my suspicions... you are a stupid as*hole!

If you had bothered to read, That info was already posted. I said there was almost 2" of space. You were quick to try and do your old make him feel stupid and shut him up routine.
Like I said Ian, you do it all the time.

No, I wasn't. I was asking why you were using the SLR info for the AC lift.
You then said you were comparing them, and then before I could continue getting more information to help you, you started your tirade.

What, it took you that long to figure it out ?

I may be an asshole, but at least I'm not "slow".

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Philosopher:
'East Coast Jack-Off's'? You think of that one all by yourself?

Yes. Fitting isn't it ? Not everyone falls into that category, but most of you do (and you know who).

Does that include EOE, whom you have bought tie rod adjusters from?

I have never bought anything from EOE. And no, Todd isn't on the list, because he doesn't come here calling me names when he is bored by the lack of traffic on the other boards.

You posted that pic for your lemmings who wanted to see the lift.

You were one of those lemmings Mike, would like to see the posts you made telling me to post pictures, and then complaining about them ?

Bad day Ian? A bit too much 'XOC stress' perhaps?

Not really.

Or just jealous that there is a board that offers 4x4 info and doesn't cater to the bullsh*t that prevails here at the Xtraordinarily Obsolete Clique?

What, the AF Xterra board ? Which is supposed to be a board for all Xterra types, but has been taken over by your group just to focus on 4X4 topics ?
A board where posts are censored if they mention another message board ?

It's either that or you're bent out of shape because 'an1malch1n' made it thru the Iron Chest, which you couldn't get more than 300 feet into with 3" of lift and more articulation.

You don't know what he drives do you ? A much more capable truck than mine.
The only other trucks to attempt it were Toyotas. And 300 feet out of 1200 isn't bad.

Oh, but that's right, Trey told you that you couldn't have made it through anyway.

And he was correct. An Xterra with stock gearing and a stock clutch will never make it up Iron Chest.

so does this mean that if i adjust my torsion bars, that there would be a problem with "premature wearing on the steering center link"?

Whoa, uhhh, I'm really not trying to get in the middle of a flame war here so take this fwiw okie dokie

I only took a "friendly stab" at XOC at the 4x4 board and that is all it was. Definately not a put down. The "Iron Chest" is definately a difficult trail. Without the hopper gears(which I don't have) you will smoke your clutch no matter what. I don't care what you have unless you have totally regeared your rig (you have to do the trail to fully understan what I'm reffering too). As far as XOC going part way up that trail, that should be commended not belittled.

Can you make that trail without locks and hopper gears????? Yes, but we spent all after noon helping my yota buddy out to get him up there, the rest of us are locked and lifted and running much superior tires compared to him(yota). And yes your truck will take a HUGE punishment! So I don't want people taking what I said about XOC out of context, which was just me poking a little fun

BTW I'm just running an old Hardbody with many dents and years of wheeling on it, so damage to me really isn't that big of an issue anymore, if I had a newer vehicle I would definately be more concerned than what I have now.

I also was the one that stated the tie-rod issue with Mike. He assured me they were working on the steering set-up and I have no reason to doubt him about that either. I believe(though I didn't ask) that his tierod setup was so that he could wheel all week and not break anything on the trail. I consider that some good forthought (albeit not one I would have done for money reasons alone). Also I just bought a new steering centerlink right before this trip and by the end of "Iron chest" it is almost shot. These things are really really week when lifted and lots of rockcrawling. Just something you get used to doing when owning a Nissan. Anyway I don't know if he brought an extra set or not or why he did not have a prototype steering set up either(forgot to ask).<-----though this would have been the place to test it if he had it.

So anyway later fellas and happy wheeling!

I think the problem is from people "Beefing up" their tie rods. People have been doing this because the are "weak".

Here are my thoughts.. In any system you always have a weak link. If you are smart you make the "weak" link an inexpensive and easy to replace part, like the tie rods. To me the tie rods are sort of like fuses on an electrical system. If they keep blowing then you should know that you have a bigger problem.

Beefing them up will only allow you to break a more expensive and harder to replace part while on the trail.

Boy Ian, you must be really pissed you can't make any friends in your Rocky Mountain Xterra Club, huh?

Anyway, this was a good laugh when I got home. Let's see here...how many tries did it take you to get to the top of the waterfall at Black Bear? How many tries did it take Philosopher? Or how many tries did it take Pikachu's GIRLFRIEND? But right...we're the ones who can't drive.

BTW, that pic of my truck that stormy posted was taken the day after I installed my lift as well, so go try and find another reason to prove I'm an idiot.

p.s. I trust plenty of people's advice on these boards, just usually not yours...I have seen the terrain that the PNWX guys run (used to live out there) and know what it's like...plus they tend to pay for their parts, which is perhaps why they aren't hiding flaws like toasted steering components.

All of the blown centerlinks have come from people using the stock tie rods so your conclusion is not true at all. My centerlink is fine, and yes I am running the HD tie rod adjusters. I kind of see your point about a weak link(from Nissan's design point of view) but in fact the aftermarket for most every other truck has designed some HD components to eliminate the weak links..the HD tie rod adjusters are just the first step. I certainly would not have wanted a tie rod adjuster to bend or break when I was going up Carburetor Hill(in Kentucky) which you have to be hard on the throttle to make it up..to then lose my steering control and drop off the edge of the cliff the trail runs next to. I don't want a weak link on my truck.....at all.

Ian, the fact is you do care. I had my rant because i think you're an arrogant prick who likes to push people around to make yourself look (and feel) better. I've seen you do it before, and you were doing it to me.

What do you expect... To throw around insults about how people are in a particular part of the country and not expect a responce (another example of Ian being arrogant). Yes Ian, I may have attacked you but I didn't drag everyone in the rocky mountain area into it by insulting what mods they have. Does that make you a RMJO? You're a jacka$$ Ian, and you continue to prove that with every bitter post.
Do you actually think that east coast members gang up on people?! You're reaching for insults Ian, but I know it's hard\impossible for you not to get the last word in.

Loose the god complex and I'm always right attitude Ian. :p

Where would we be without Ian The Great??? :rolleyes:

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: stormy ]

Lies by xoc:
Let's see here...how many tries did it take you to get to the top of the waterfall at Black Bear?

3 when Mike was spotting me, 1 when I got out and spotted myself.

Take another look at the video Ian. You never got out of your truck and looked at the trail yourself, which is why it took you 3 times to get up. I tried to tell you how to attack the obstacle, but The Great Ian Firth (TGIF) wasn't about to take advice from a Maryland boy on his home turf. Dumb on your part.

How many tries did it take Philosopher?

2

I think you mean one. Without stopping.

Or how many tries did it take Pikachu's GIRLFRIEND?

So it looks like women are better drivers, and ECJO's can't spot.

Nope, just that Sherrie is a better driver than you!


When TGIF is in a corner and realizes he's wrong, he lies instead of admitting he's wrong. Plain and simple. So sad.

Originally posted by xoc:

Ok, I will when someone proves me wrong.

How do you prove to a megalomaniac that he's wrong?


Who's video ? Your edited video ? I got out of my X twice and looked at the obstacle.

Prove it. Post the entire video of the hour we were there.


It's either on Carlton's video or on Pikachu's video. I wasn't filming video, I was (in your words) making "short work of the obstacle up the correct line."

HUGS!

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Philosopher ]

I've got to hand it to you Ian. You've got a come back for EVERYTHING!

That's because I'm not human, but just a 'bot running on the server here...

But Mike and I haven't talked this much in 6 months. I miss our dialogs.

Holy Sh*t. You guys are killin me!


What round is it?


I'm sure it occurred to everyone by now that Ian loves conflict. If he didn't, he just wouldn't respond.

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: arkman ]

No Sh!t...

Hey, I heard that...

You're such a Bot!

Your words not mine...

please stop the XOC lovefest people. Blech. :p

It was a joke Matt... didn't you see the


Ruin the fun again :p

Hey im SSRXterra you know the guy with the "To cranked up T-Bar's, for that way cool look." But I have a legit question.

Caver-X, do you happen to know anything else about this steering setup that AC is rumored to be making? I would love to know if this is for real or simply made up. I would deffently be in the market for a new steering setup. Please let me know if ya know anything. Thanks, ~Kevin

Don't you mean Belch

how dare you to correct my onamonapeitic spelling! Just because I am from Connecticut, stop singling those of us out who were lucky enough to grow up in the one county in the world that was found to be accent free! When will the persecution end!

Give 'em a call (954-970-9626), they'll be more than happy to tell you what they have in the works!