I dod not know that AC sold Revolver Shackles for 05-07 X's... are thay a good thing to have?

Yes.



Revolvers are very good at helping to keep your tires on the ground....and in my case, they allow me to have good articulation, while still having a strong enough leaf pack to support my 5,800 lb weight (And the X is heavy too...).

As they allow more flex than the 3" SL's do, and provide less lift than the standard lift shackles, there are some things that you'd need to do to take FULL advantage of them...but they still work amazingly well as is.

I've been running the Revolvers for a while now, and all of the BS I read about "unoading" and other crap was false...they don't do ANY of the things that people who didn't have them said they would.

They work just like regular shackles do, except they allow a few more inches of shackle swing because they can unfold when the axle is drooped..but, they still support the weight of the truck, just like regular shackles do at various angles of shackle swing, etc.

All in all, its one of my favorite mods.

, like he said.

The only problem I have had at all was that the bolt that they rotate on backed out once. The bolt stayed in the half of the shackle and once I figured out why my leaf spring was clanking around I put the shackle back together with lock-tite. Haven't had a problem at all since.
I think they are a great mod for adding flex to the rear of an X.

Check it out.

Revolver Flex

Around here they call them "suicide shackles". I've heard of them breaking on the trails. They have also been known to make a vehicle slightly more prone to rollovers. I have also heard of them royally f%cking up spring hangers because of the additional twist they put on the leafs.

I also don't see the advantage of the extra droop because they only droop out when there's no weight on that leaf. This means you've drooped the tire but haven't really added any "useful" (grip-enhancing) flex.

Definitely ask around before you buy those. Your local custom 4x4 shop is a good place to start.

Have'nt seem them in action on the 2nd gens yet but on the 1st gens they have worked great on the two rigs I've ridden with.

Of course to take full advantage of them you need other mods...longer shocks, lines, etc.

Marty beat his for years like there is no tomorrow, other than some of the parts wearing out over time I have'nt seen any problems with them.

And the 2nd gen revolvers are monsters compared to the 1st gen X. I'm using the 2nd gen on my spring over.

AC has them for the 05- 07 for $250.00 a pair.

This is a good example of the BS I'm talking about.

Someone who doesn't have them, repeating what others who don't have them said.



It shows a total lack of understanding of how they work.

Point by Point:

1. I've heard of them breaking on the trails - I've heard of regular shackles breaking on the trails, and regular leaf springs, and regular shocks, etc.

2. They make a vehical slightly more prone to rollovers - Any lift does that, and the Revolvers don't give much lift, so less likely to cause a roll than a regular lift shackle....ALL they do is help keep your tires on the ground...and that has never contributed to a rollover that I know of. (A roll is when the COG crosses out of the rectangle formed by the 4 tire's foot prints...its NOT like the suspension holds you down...)

3. They put extra twist on the springs fucking up the hangers - They do the opposite, as they swivel, taking the stress OFF OF THE HANGERS, by letting the leaf move, instead of the leaf torquing against the hanger as happens with a regular shackle.(Which is HOW regular shackles tend to break)

4. They only give extra droop, but don't support the extra weight - When ANY SUSPENSION DROOPS, the tire is dropping because of the weight of the axle/tire, etc...and its not holding the truck up if its drooping....droop is dropping by gravity....if the tire drops away from the truck, its not holding the truck up...that's WHY a regular shackle swings to add articulation, and WHY a shackle gives better wheel travel/off road performance than an AAL, etc.

And, as hard as it is for some to understand...just like a regular lift shackle can swing, allowing more droop at parts of its swing, etc...it will STILL support the truck at various parts of its swing.

The Revolver opens to about 9.5"...a stock shackle is about 3", so it can get about 6.5" longer, or ~ the equivalent of a 3" lift just from shackle length....about 1.5" more than a std 3" SL.

So - The end result is merely having the articulation of the 4.5" SL, w/o actually having to raise the COG by 4.5".

The traction is there, I have been able to go places I simply could not have managed w/o locker or the Revolvers....and sure, a locker overall would be better If I had to pick, but, the Revolvers are WAY less expensive, and a 45 minute install....and I can still do BOTH one day if I have the $.

Yup. They just break a lot more frequently when you stress them out with revolver shackles.

Good, you agree. If a rexolver shackle disengages in an extreme situation, it could be the "straw that broke the camels back" for the rollover. Each side of the suspension holds up at least 150# worth of suspension parts. I wouldn't want to lose 150# from my uphill side in that scenario.

You need to take a look under your truck before you reply. Clearly you are confused about what you've got installed.

Your spring hangers are in front of your axle. The more you flex your axle, the more your axle torques the springs and hangers. Destroying the hangers is something that I know has happened to folks. I believe there is a thread on this forum right now of somebody who ruined their spring hangers while using revolver shackles.

And that is the bottom line. Every leaf setup has a "dynamic range". The last inch or so of flex is not really useful because the tire has no grip. Revolver shackles do nothing but add to the "useless" range to your flex. They are really neat "redneck bling", but I have yet to meet a serious offroader who is still using them. Many have tried them and then decided that the cons outweigh the pros.

TJ can write another book endorsing what's on his truck, but the internet is not the place to get this information. I recommend that you go to your local hardcore 4x4 shop and ask those guys. The product of revolver shackles are universally denounced by all three offroad shops that I know of in Co Springs. I agree 100% because of the experiences I've seen folks have with that product.

Jeff - that's a lot of twisting and misinformation...you have it wrong.

You don't know how they work...you are not describing how they function in real life.

If you say Revolvers make you more likley to roll over, and I say any lift can, and you say we agree, as if it implied that a revolver was somehow MORE likely to make you roll, that's going to confuse things.

You are wrong about the twist as well...the pivoting shackle relieves stress, it in no way adds stress.

You are implying that the equivalent of a 4.5" SL is "suicidal", and that a truck will rollover unless it has a solid shackle...whereas, in reality, trucks with solid shackles roll all the time...and we're really talking about how likely a truck with 3" vs 4.5" of lift is to roll...except, the Revolver shackle isn't really RAISING you, merely allowing the droop...a few more inches...

Think about how a regular shackle can hold up the truck, even though it swings through an acrc...it sounds like you think a regular shackle only support the truck at one point in its arc.

If the COG is going to cross the tire footprint's boundries...almost the exact same resistance is available with, or without the revolvers....there is no unloading in real life, that's a sceanrio made up and propagated by people who don't have revolvers...they unfold when unweighted, EXACTLY like a standard suspension...a little at a time, as dictated by the exact same forces.

I'm not the only one here with Revolvers, and others with them can attest to the fact that you are making things up/repeating misconceptions.

And don't get on that broken record about me endosing what's on my truck, and no one else's....I already said for example a locker would be better, which I don't have, etc.

Argue the facts, and if you don't have the experience with the Revolvers, maybe consider letting the people who HAVE REVOLVERS answer the questions about them?

I have to agree with JeffW on one point and it's causing more stress on the hangers. The leaf springs have two halves. The front half from the axle to the hanger and the rear half from the axle to the shackle.

While the rear half will get less stress because of the action provided by the revolver, the front half will will cause more stress on the hanger because of the extra droop of the axle.

That stress however I think would be the same if you had an equivalent suspension lift and one wheel at full droop while the other is fully stuffed in the fender.

TJ:

while I hate to agree with JeffW on most any issue...

This is not "heresay" or "i've heard" garbage. This is PERSONAL observation of 2 virtually identical rigs, one with revolvers and one without.

The trail was off-camber, with a bump on the driver's side at the same time as a tree on the passenger's side. Both rigs were crawling, aka, not bouncing at all over the bump. Both took the same line, which was as high as possible on the trail so as not to hit the tree with the top of the cab when they got to the bump. (By bump, I don't mean it was a "bump" feeling; I mean the driver's side had a short area that was higher, causing the rigs to go even more off-camber than before.)

The first rig did not have revolver shackles. It went through the trail with it's driver's side suspension fully flexed at droop, and it's passenger side at full compression. At the bump, the cab tipped over more, and came within a couple inches of the tree. Close, but never even hit it.

The second rig, with revolver shackles, started right behind the first so he could take the same line. When it got to the bump, the driver's side was fully drooped, with revolver at max unloading. Passenger side was fully stuffed. The cab leaned over far enough and hard enough to not only bang into the tree, but to dent the roof and passenger side door badly enough it shattered the window, and mangled it enough that the door has not been able to be opened ever since.

Both vehicles had the exact same suspension brand and tire size/type combination. The ONLY difference, literally, was one had revolvers. If the tree had not been there, there was a fairly good chance the 2nd vehicle would have had a side-rollover, considering how hard it slammed into the tree. Without that tree stopping the swing to the side, I just don't see how that rig would have stayed on all-fours.

After that weekend, the owner of the 2nd rig took off the revolvers and sold them on Ebay. He'll never run them again.

This is an event I PERSONALLY witnessed, from behind both the rigs as they went through. From this particular instance, I can say with certainty that revolvers DO allow for more roll-over on an off-camber situation than regular shackles, and COULD lead to a roll-over in a situation that otherwise would not.

As to other situations, I haven't seen any problems with them. I've never seen them unload on a downhill, hard braking, etc.

There are other factors that could have played in that. Such as tire size, weight distribution, where your COG was at, etc. All of these can play a part.

Now if a plane had revolvers and was on a treadmill would it be able to take off??

Is the treadmill off camber?

Porche - there's a difference between lean, and rollover..and I understand what you're saying, but I've seen analogous situations where the amount of flex can let you whack a tree, etc...

I had a buddy in his TJ whack a tree I cleared on an offcamber section...he had 6" of lift and two live axles, and a shit load more wheel travel than I had....same line (Had to be the same line, it was a tight squeeze...)

I guess the best way to summarize it, as I took ALOT of measurements, etc...before running these on trails....is its about as flexy as a 4.5" SL.

My X, loaded for work, etc...is about 5,800 lb...and it would lean more than a lighter one for sure.

So, if the 4.5" Sl'd X leans into the tree, so might the Revolver shackled X, etc...and your buddy who had that accident perhaps fell victim to that principle.

Meaning, it has nothing to do with the Revolvers per se, just that a more flexy rig leans more...like the Jeep, it was a lot more flexy, had a lot more clearance, and leaned over into the tree, bashing its window/door frame (Didn't break though, very slow approach...)

People with a SAS for example have maybe 5" - 6" of SL, and I expect more total wheel travel than I have (Especially up front of course, but I'm talking about the butt end right now...)

So - if you get off camber with the SAS...you can lean more than I could with the Revolvers.

Maybe that will put it into perspective.

As for the leaf flex, I checked it, and as the axle twists the leaf...no other force is twisting the leaf but the axle...the two end points are anchoring it, but the leaf's twist is definetely coming from the middle.

When the axle drops and twists the leaf, if the hanger is fixed, like the front, a torsional force is applied to it.

If the rear hanger essentially CAN swivel, it can MOVE when the torsional force is applied, and rotate with the direction of force, relieving the tension.

Now, if you are talking about that with the Revolver, the FRONT hanger gets twisted harder, because the axle is drooping further...due to the Revolver, yes, but the amount is roughly equivalent to having another 1.5" of SL...a few degrees more is all that happens...the axle is a long lever, with the dropped tire's end pretty far from the leaf being twisted...

(Like the amount of twist with a 4' long lever moving 2 more inches down...the amount of additional twist is minimal.)

A front Orbit Eye would address that if you were going for more massive flex. I simply set up my travel to stay within the driveshaft travel and leaf flex limits...so I didn't need to make other arrangements for hangers....I did add longer shocks with 29" extended length....that's all I needed.

I've seen PLENTY of X's with broken leaf springs...None had revolver shackles. Is it POSSIBLE to break a spring ...sure, if you could do it w/o longer shackles, you could also do it with longer shackles.

I HAVE seen (Jeeps mostly..) not sweat the details, and install revolvers, and drop drive shafts, etc...because they did not compensate for the extra travel....and a jeep's rear shaft is like a foot long...not much to play with there.

This is just like the one's who mounted tires that were too large, and blew their drive trains.

Is there a flaw in large tires, or is that some people don't set up their rigs intelligently to handle it?

So - to clarify - Revolvers work great, and sure, just like doing an SL, or adding larger tires, or a locker, etc...it can open new issues..., like a locked diff can blow more easily, etc...but, the design itself works.

If you think the wheel travel of a 4.5" SL with the ground clearance f a 3" SL is nutz/too dangerous, get a 3" SL, and don't get revolvers.

If you want a bit more wheel travel w/o raising the COG as much/being able to still fit into some garages, the Revolvers are a practical option.



Some people are reacting to these things like your tires fall off... its only a few inches more of droop, there's people w/o the revolvers with new flexy leaf packs with just as much travel.

Your tires stay on the ground longer...that's about it.

I think these discussions are silly. Putting revolvers on will not make your vehicle explode while sitting there. But guess what, any offroad modification has the possibility to get you in a situation that can cause serious damage, whether it be a locker, a winch, a BL or a SL.

Why don't people complain about SAS'ing trucks? Being that much higher certainly effects the COG enough to cause rollovers quicker.

True that.



...well, maybe not a BL.

OK, so TJ wrote two more books.

I still stand by my advice to read porsche996's post and call your local 4x4 shop and inquire. Then make your decision.

Yeah - call the 4x4 shops...they recommend those Rancho SL's for the X....they know best.

TJ:

I realize what you're saying, and don't disagree. The problem I witness was there BECAUSE of the additional travel available from the revolvers. The truck w/o revolvers couldn't travel as far, which didn't allow him to have as much vehicle roll on the off-camber.

My point is, additional travel isn't worth it in some situations, regardless of how you get the travel.

EXACTLY.

The situation where the revolvers make that wheel "weightless" with respect to the vehicle is just the type of scenario where a rollover is possible.

Flexier leafs do not create the same phenomenon.

Anyone from CO, (or who's had the gumption) order the orbit eye leafspring bushings from ALCAN yet. I'm very seriously considering them for my rear spring setup.. they won't add any lift/droop, but they will help me get my flexy on, while reducing stress to the leafpack..

I have the orbit eyes installed into my rear frame shackle mounts. I think someone has Alcan orbit eyes ordered.

On the revolver note...
I Had em...
I liked em...
I busted the welds on em...

I have them in my leafpacks and I think they are great1