As you may have seen in other posts, my centerlink is starting to go south. I've done my research into the Calmini and SLR replacments and for the price, the Calmini seems to be the choice I'm leaning towards.

Can anyone offer any info on the +'s and -'s of either system?

Is there another system that I've haven't seen?

Since the torsion lift caused the worn centerlink in the first place(I'm sure the rough off-roading didn't help either), will I have to worry about the system wearing in the same manner?

If I was considering installing a steering stabilizer, will I still see a lot of benefit from it with either of the replacement steering systems in place?

Thanks for any reponses!

Andy

CALMINI
Pro - Redesigned steering geometery that directly addresses the problem of tie-rod angle forces on the center link. Great price. Quality and craftsmanship.
Cons - You may not like blue.

SLR
Pro - Can't think of any.
Cons - Simply the stock components gusseted to make them stronger. Doesn't solve the problem of increased tie-rod angle from a lift causing extra forces on the center link. Expensive.

Not entirely true. The fact of the stock vs. revised tie-rod angles statement is true, but as to whether it creates a concern for SLR's steering system design is undocumented. In several months of putting my X in situations that have severly taxed my steering, I can "personally" attest to great strength, design and dependability in my SLR steering system.

The SLR system also, unmentioned in Ian's response to the question, does rely on a redesigned centerlink, much more capable in it's resistance to torsional forces applied to it via the tie-rods. The pitman and idler arms are gussetted versions of the stock units, but that gussetting results in a double-shear solution that, when combined with the new centerlink, makes for a tremendously strong system.

I think both systems are very good replacements for stock steering woes experienced by owners of Nissan vehicles that have performed suspension lifts, or that tax their stock steering through aggressive use. The SLR system, when purchased in its entirity, does cost more than Calmini's setup, but SLR does offer various options in the purchase of the system, that allow for customization of what you decide you need in your steering setup. All options do cost more than Calmini's setup, but up until late last week, SLR was the only supplier shipping a complete system. Many unsuspecting folks had purchased and waited a large amount of time (as much as almost six months) for a Calmini steering system that "would ship next week" or "would ship next month." This time was necessary for the testing and delivery of the systems by and to Calmini, but they advertised its availability and accepted orders for the units entirely too soon to complete testing and establish dependable and timely delivery from their overseas suppliers. That in turn left many customers holding the bag, wondering when their new, improved steering would arrive, and when calling to find out, were told "Should ship next week, maybe, or next month. Definately by the end of the year....probably." So....at least they got it by now. Maybe now, we can get some real-world input as to the Calmini system's design and useability from folks other than just Ian or Carlton.

Please understand that this message board does have several member who are influenced to persuade others' opinions about aftermarket suppliers. These opinions are not necessarily wrong, seeing as how many of the suppliers for our trucks make available varied, yet wonderful solutions for common problems experienced by us. Unfortunately, however, that persuasion leads oftentimes to distortions about truths, and also creates many vicious discussions about aftermarket parts and suppliers.

My suggestion to you would be to speak with non-compensated owners of any part you have an interest in. See how the part works for them. Guage a true impression, one not determined by what a supplier may be providing to particular users to spread the word about their new products. And then call the suppliers themselves, and speak to them about their solutions. That way you can make an educated, more unbiased choice in what you want and need.

I heard the second and subsequent batches are not going to have as much blue powder coating on them. That should please all the fashion conscious.
:p

Blue, red, orange, pink(well maybe not pink), I don't really care, as long as it performs. Besides it will take on a nice Arizona Mud Red after a few trips.

Any comments on the steering stabilizer?

Ian has said that he did not need his after the swap. I think that if you did want a SS then you might have to make custom brackets due to the Calmini system being different from the OE set up. I am going to wait to see what it feels like before I make that choice.

I am sure that in the next week or so you can get more input from more people (at least the Calmini side.. There are only a handful of people with the SLR system)

The time has come to respond to this nonsense.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedX:
Many unsuspecting folks had purchased and waited a large amount of time (as much as almost six months) for a Calmini steering system that "would ship next week" or "would ship next month."

Brad, it's been long established that the kit took longer to release than we would have liked. However, don't insinuate that we led people to order this system based on false delivery dates. We always stand to the side and listen to a lot of fiction about how we do business here, but in this case, you're making statements that simply are not true.

This time was necessary for the testing and delivery of the systems by and to Calmini, but they advertised its availability and accepted orders for the units entirely too soon to complete testing.

Brad, we accepted orders to establish their place in line only. You omit the fact that we don't charge cards or accept payment from any customer on any backorder. Our policy is that all backorders are open ended, unless they are a custom built order. Which is something we try to discourage in the first place.

and establish dependable and timely delivery from their overseas suppliers.

Dead wrong. What overseas suppliers, and who are getting your bunk info from?

That in turn left many customers holding the bag, wondering when their new, improved steering would arrive.

The kits are late. Whose the victim here? The only bag anyone was holding was the one full of their own money. "Holding the bag" insinuates that someone was defrauded of something. I'm not comfortable with that.

Please understand that this message board does have several member who are influenced to persuade others' opinions about aftermarket suppliers. These opinions are not necessarily wrong, seeing as how many of the suppliers for our trucks make available varied, yet wonderful solutions for common problems experienced by us. Unfortunately, however, that persuasion leads oftentimes to distortions about truths, and also creates many vicious discussions about aftermarket parts and suppliers.

Brad, your recent statements here put you at the top of that list.

My suggestion to you would be to speak with non-compensated owners of any part you have an interest in. See how the part works for them. Guage a true impression, one not determined by what a supplier may be providing to particular users to spread the word about their new products. And then call the suppliers themselves, and speak to them about their solutions. That way you can make an educated, more unbiased choice in what you want and need.

Brad, we certainly are sorry that we missed an opportunity to supply you with one of our steering systems. But my response to your post is necessary because sometimes postings made here are people's opinions being misconstrued as facts. This is unfortunate and dangerous, as we are running a business here. Remember that in every case, it is the goal of our sales staff as well as our distributors, to supply our customers in as timely a manner as possible. It didn't happen in this case, and we'll work to be better in the future.

Can you name those people ?
If you mean me, you are dead wrong. Nobody influences me, I make my own decisions based on quality.

Calmini

Pros:

Pretty blue powder coat/cheap solution to known problem

Cons:

Changes OEM designed steering geometry. Will feel slop over time in ball joints, causing whole centerlink to pivot fore and aft over time.

SLR

Pros:

OEM duplicate steering geometry, tie rods drop 3/16 to decrease tie rod angles. ”Problem of increased tie rod angle from lift.” Same steering repose as brand new OEM centerlink. Wear points designed into steering system that have lasted well over a year in “extreme abuse”. All OEM components redesigned and laser cut double shear gusset TIG welded to OEM idler and pitman for unmatched strength and durability.

(3) designed and engineered/load rated weak links in SLR system:

• Spherical bearings
• Tie rods heat treated to c34 (you will not gain any strength for a larger center section/adjuster on tie rods)
• Extruded brass idler arm bushings

SLR will also stand behind our system 110% in any flaws in manufacturing/craftsmanship.
Cons

Price. You are paying for 37 plus years of R&D Nissan development, quality, and craftsmanship into every SLR steering system.

xoc:

This is your world. Let's not make this a conniving world.

The Nissan community deserves an honest, non-biased answer when members ask legit questions. Let's keep this board informative and honest.

RedX:

Thanks for you feed back and honest remarks. Glad all is well with your investment. I will check back first of the year for any questions or feedback.

Happy Holidays to the Nissan community. May the New Year bring many happy trails.

Dez, don't post about things you know nothing about. You obviously have no idea how the system works.

I agree.. but that is not what you just posted.
:rolleyes:

I made an assinine post, insinuating many things that were not fact based, only opinion based on my part. For that transgression I do apologize.

Calmini does manufacture great parts for our trucks, and they also do a wonderful job of designing and testing those products prior to the release to the general public. Both of these facts are to be commended and appreciated. Thank you for providing us with products that so effectively solve our problems.

In the course of testing and designing these products, customer input is referred to and used to implement better solutions for final designs. Another wonderful trait in providing the end consumers with better products. My apologies to both Ian and Carlton for wrongly and unjustly naming them as compensated spokespeople for Calmini. They really are simply very justifiable resources in the betterment of end products for us, the Xterra community.

I do apologize for creating an ugly discussion out of a simple question. Both Calmini and SLR create products for our vehicles that solve so many problems. Each often creates a solution that differs from the other, and that difference can be both interesting to the casual observer and potential customer as well. But each solution also does a good job in its intended purpose.

In the interest of preventing what so many of us here despise, a biased and eventually destructive conflict regarding personal opinions on solutions, I would again like to offer my apologies for creating this discussion, and for wrongly and uninformably stating erroneous information based upon assumption and judgemental fabrication.

Hey, another Calmini vs. SLR fight! :rolleyes:

I find it interesting that those accusing others of misrepresentation, false info, biased opinions and so on are continually the people who are most guilty of it.

I wonder if the Calmini parts and SLR parts on my truck are going to start fighting now?

What's funny is both companies have products that excel and some that don't. Of course the difinition of that depends on a customer's needs and that was my opinion, but as a general rule, only a fool would only shop one company.

Again, I'm getting tired of all the bullshit from the biased people and am disappointed to see them once again judging the folks with valid observations and questions.

On a side note, as long as the wait was I want to thank Calmini for shipping my steering system and I can't wait to install it!

BTW Brad, I don't think you really owe anyone an apology. You stated the facts and a fact is a fact. That's a lot more than "someone" else here seems to be able to come up with.

Why not just name names ?

I posted facts, please point out where you think I didn't.

My biggest concern is SLR taking jabs at other companies with false information. This is the third time they have done it, and I am tired of it. Dez posted bullshit and is only hurting SLR.

I agree 100% with you there, but you started it with your little comparison. Dez should have directed the attack at you instead of Calmini, although any attack from a company is just plain bad business IMO.

I just think it's quite unfortunate that people can't ask for information without starting a war of the companies and you basing your responses on your personal issues with SLR are not helpful to anyone.

XID asked for a pros and cons comparison. I simply replied with my pros and cons. As usual, people think I choose favorites. I don't, I just choose the best designed product, and in this case, it isn't even close.

Simply look at the design visually to see the difference.

CALMINI.
Completely new steering components from the ground up. Tie-rod forces are no longer placed on the centerlink, but are evenly split between the idler arm and pitman arm. $489.



SLR.
Existing parts re-used. No change to existing geometry and the forces caused by increased tie-rod angle due to a suspension lift. $799 ($1033 if your idler and pitman arms are not in excellent condition).



Everyone here can make their own decisions.

Just a guess, but couldn't the comments from "dez" be from Spencer using her screen name.

First of all I'm sure SLR doesn't have a Calmini steering setup so for "dez" to state that parts "will" wear out without the factual testing is wrong.

The delays experience by Calmini customers are not that unheard of and IMO they handled the crisis fairly well by not charging any of their customers until products were shipped.

As far as Ian stating that there are "no pros" to the SLR system, again I think this is incorrect since it obviously does fix the centerlink wear issue and this system has been prototyped longer than the Calmini system without failures.

Again IMO, both systems will do the job just fine since they use double shear points and have beefed up components. But then we have the price issue. I say let the consumers buy what they want and can afford and sales will speak for themselves. If everyone buys Calmini systems and have problems in the future, I'm sure they will correct it promptly. If SLR doesn't sell any steering systems due to price, I'm sure they will make some changes as well.

I agree that businesses arguing over who's products are better (to the point of taking jabs) is just plain sad and un-professional.

Personally, I would love to have EITHER system on my truck today. Since I can't afford either one (because I'm unemployed) I will just have to wait. Once I can afford it, I will evaluate current user feedback on each system and make a decision at that time whether the extra dollars for an SLR system is warranted, or if the Calmini system has held up fine and is a better bargain.

Good day, and happy holidays to all.

Just a quick note from a consumer.

I have been reading all the posts regarding AALs and torsion bars. I hope to purchase both by the first of the year(Steering by summer). This forum has helped to show me the different options, systems available and installation.

I must believe that your behavior here as producers will directly reflect how you treat me as a customer.

I was on the fence.

Merry Christmas.

Jeff

That was an oversight. I will say 'better than stock' for the Pro category for the SLR system, but nothing more.

Still, it does not prevent wear to their centerlink, they even mention the spherical bearings are replacable/servicable because that is what is going to wear out on their system. Those spherical bearings are not protected from the elements, and are subject to exactly the same forces as a stock system.
Their idler arm pivot point is also unchanged, it's bronze, but it's still the same size as stock.
Their double shear design is indeed captive for the pivot bolts, but I honestly doubt the 1/8" thick sheet metal tab can be described as structural. You could bend it upward 90 degrees with just a pair of pliers.

Ian, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the SLR system is better or even as good as the Calmini. In fairness though I just pointed out your "oversight". If I HAD to make the decision today, I would go with the Calmini, but when I prefer one product I usually don't badmouth or cut down the other.

My years in sales management has taught me to speak highly of the superior product and NEVER talk about the competition. Good products sell themeselves.

Not to fan the flames of this simmering discussion, but I seriously want some insight into things being discussed.

Ian, the spherical bearings are indeed designed to bear the torsional load of the upward force applied by the tie-rods in the SLR system. That fact is readily observable by the design parameters of the system. But, can it truly be seen as a negative aspect of the design, given the bearings' relative low cost and ease of replacement? I feel that simplicity and low cost in replacing these expendable portions of the system when and if they fail is a plus in the design. I feel that the replaceable ball joint portions of Calmini's design serve the same purpose of being relatively easy and cost efficient to replace, versus an entire new centerlink.

The gussett reinforced idler and pitman arms can be argued, perhaps very effectively, as not being as fundamentally strong as Calmini's very impressive chunks of steel that make up their idler and pitman arms. But in the physical arrangement that completes their relationship with the entire system, the gussetts, in concert with the assembling bolts and nuts and the centerlink, provide a system that in fact cannot be altered using a pair of pliers. The combined elements, in fact, create a very durable unit.

SLR's design for the idler arm unit is certainly different from Calmini's very impressive final solution for the idler arm, in that it does rely on a design very similar to the original stock unit. Is this wrong, or simply another way to handle the problem? When properly braced, the stock idler arm setup does provide a very stable pivot point in the steering system. Perhaps Calmini's is more durable and stable; I am not to judge, as I have no particular experience with Calmini's system. I do however have several months of experience with SLR's system and it has proven to be very durable in my use.

Have you, Ian, ever experienced SLR's steering setup in any fashion? Have you driven a vehicle that has it installed? Have you even examined a vehicle that has it installed? Have you witnessed the performance of the system in offroad circumstances on a vehicle that has it installed? Or are all your conclusions as to its durability and performance based upon conjecture on your part, perhaps even more educated conjecture, given your experience in off-roading? I would think, given your knowledge of off-roading, and all the forces that can be applied to vehicular elements, that sometimes such conjecture can be misleading.

I appreciate your support for the Calmini system, but to continuously denigrate a competitor's product based upon limited knowledge of the product, is a rather shameless thing to do. I was made aware of the wrongful assumptions I had regarding Calmini's product, and accordingly apologized publicly for promoting such misleading information. Is there a slight, however small, possibility that you are speaking of the comparisons between the two systems without full knowledge of their complete design and performance parameters?

The spherical bearings are about an inch apart, with a bolt through the center of them. As such, they cannot move independent of one another, so torsional loads to the center link are really not handled well. This is going to happen in any system where the tie-rods are at an extreme angle (steering linkages are designed to work best when all parts are parallel).
The bearings may wear over time and need to be replaced. When that happens, it's $100 for 4 new ones, which isn't much less than a stock center link. How often will this happen ? Who knows.
The inherant problems of the stock system are still there, only the parts that wear have been changed.

CALMINI has removed any parts of the system that can wear easily via the upward movement of the tie-rods, and moved the tie-rod end mounting points inboard, lengthening the tie-rod and decreasing its' angle, reducing the upward force.

I am not continuously denigrating the system. Someone asked for comments, and I offered mine. I have never seen the system in person, but I was privy to pictures and details of it all during the development phase, and am confident in how all the pieces work together. My comments are based on many years of 4 wheeling experience and many years of mechanical design.

My biggest problem is still the price, as was discussed several months ago. There just isn't $800 worth of work in the SLR system.

Everyone should still form their own conclusions regarding which system they prefer.

Thank you for your answers. Fair and to the point.

Cost is an issue, I agree. We'll see what a more competitive marketplace does for the SLR pricing structure, if anything.

I will never disagree about the fact that Calmini has designed and engineered what appears to be a tremendous steering solution for our trucks. I would actually love to get their system in hand and compare its performance to my SLR system. Perhaps I may purchase the Calmini setup, so I can do just that. This whole steering issue intrigues me quite a bit, in that both companies have offered widely different solutions for the same problem, and I love that fluidity of engineering. It is an instance where a singular problem or need has been met with quite varied solutions. Lifts and other available products have had their slight differences, but this steering issue has proven to offer the most obvious differences in solutions of any product offered regularly for the Xterra thus far. I find that pretty damn exciting.

I again just want to urge any prospective purchaser of any aftermarket products to study your options, and really analyze what will solve your problem. In doing so, you become a much more knowledgeable consumer, as well as a much more knowlegeable user, of your equipment.

Craig,

How would you like an opportunity to help install a Calmini system? C'mon you had to know that when you read this post, I'd be knocking on your door for help!

After reading the above banter, I think the Calmini system wins out with me. Price is a huge factor, along with all the other pros listed above. I would love to help Spencer out, since I do believe he makes a quality line of products and he's also an Arizona local, but I can't shell out the extra cost for his system. It's a stretch for me to even go with the Calmini system, since it's over 3x the cost of a stock centerlink, but since I have to replace it, I might as well make an investment into a better system.

Thanks to all who responed, I'll be placing my order soon.

Andy

The CL ball joints won't really have any stress put on them since there will be no twisting in the CL. The stress they will endure should be handled by them fine, since they are built to handle the directional stress. They are also a lot cheaper to replace than those spherical bearings, and can be found at any parts store. They are also big tough tie rod ends. Not little weenie Nissan ones. :rolleyes:

As far as a "cheap fix" goes, this is more like a reasonable fix, unlike the price for the SLR system. The OEM design obviously sucked, so what is so great about keeping it anyway? I have CALMINI's system on my truck and it drives better than it did the day I bought it. The parts are of top notch quality. I don't give a damn about the powder coating, but the new idler and pitman are pure beef. The bushings in the idler are at least twice as big as the stock ones. I agree with Ian on one point. If it costs damn near as much to replace the wear points in the SLR steering, as a stock CL, whats the point? The inherent problem of the steering is the dogbone CL which has been retained in the SLR system. To me, the CALMINI system is a much more elegant, and sensible solution. The difference in price makes it a no brainer!