OK a post on NOR piqued my interest...if I was to weld on two brackets to the axle--thus raising the bottom shock mount by approximately 3-4 inches, and then had a top shock mount welded to the frame--does it matter which side of the axle the shocks are mounted on?? Supposedly not as the leaf springs "locate" so that issue would not come into play...the next issue would be what length and spring rate shocks should one go with?? Any other issues to look out for here?? Seems like it would solve alot of the problems of having the SUA without the complication of lifting the rear too high with a SOA modification...(additionally a low profile/high Ubolt mount leaf pack would replace the OEM one....am I making any sense here???

I saw that too. I am not sure that the bracket in question actually raises the bottom mount. It's my understanding that the mount is level with the center line of the rear axle and a bit further back. The aplication of this that I have seen mounts both shocks on the back end of the axle...or whatever you call it. As far as shocks, you would have to measure...although the Nissan that I know that runs a setup like this has 12 inch piggybacks on it. I am thinking about this too...just have to figure where to mount the top of the shocks.

Yeah axle shock mounts use to be fairly common stock …4 runners, pathys, etc. you can buy the brackets for ~ $25 from several places like foothill offroad.

On the X and many American brands they are placed front and rear to help with axle wrap and what not although I don’t think it makes that much difference SUA with our setup.

On the X if you wanted to run longer shocks best to weld the mounts on the back of the axle and the upper mounts to the tallest sub member (look above the passenger side shock mount to see what I’m talking about). That’s what Ned did with the revolvers.

Might be possible to run 19-20"/34" shocks this way with some bump stop mods although you will need a longer rear drive shaft and cross member mods to take advantage of anything past ~ 11” of shock travel not to mention longer brake, abs, and breather lines.

Let me know if you come up with anything...this is an idea I will be working on as well...thought I don't think I want to go to a longer drive shaft...just want to relocate the shocks and keep approximately the same amount of travel--though I don't mind extending brake lines and such....

I just ordered some UBSkiderz, which raise the bottom of the shock mount point, allowing the same shock travel to give more droop...you can get them side mount which raises the bottom of the shock about 2", or a top mount that raises it more like 5-6".

Yeah...seen those...still leave that shock eye exposed, one shock on the front side of the axle, and the lower shock mount dependant upon the leaf spring perch....would like to solve all three issues...

So TJ, did you get the side mounts or the top mounts? I like the idea of the top mounts, but I wonder if they'll allow the shocks enough room to compress enough at full stuffage.

Mmmmm....stuffage...

Get the side mounts, the top mounts are too high unless you relocate the upper mount too. The side mount coupled with a 3-leaf AAL set works out perfect.

Thanks Brent.

The three-leaf's what I'm running now, so it sounds like side-mounts it is.

Yeah - I went with the side mounts...the Skid Plate pretty much protects the shock, as its tucked up higher than the bottom of the leaves on the side mount...whereas the stocker put the bottom of the shock at or lower than the leaves.

An update to my progress on this project...I had been interested in the width of Toyota leafs as the following will explain...

Toyota leafs are a funny size...some say 2.25, others I asked said 2.36...Moot point however as most toyota owners move to Deaver leaf springs eventually which are 2.5...just like the Xterras...and therefore the T/C ubolt leaf plate WILL fit our leafs... The part on the T/C Toyota accesories page where it says it fits 2" leafs is a typo...talked to T/C this afternoon and they are in the process of correcting it and have updated the thread over on NOR saying that they have 2.5's plates in stock..............So.............I bought a set of those and the axle shock mount brackets that are on that page as well and they should be here next week...so I now have to find someone who does decent welding, purchase a new set of high quality shocks--thinking Fox or RaceRunners, and determine the upper shock location......
The upper shock location is going to be the most difficult due to the X's limited mounting areas and as I have no math skills....so I put my father on the job (engineer who went to school at MIT--Really, no joke) so if he can't figure it out.... Will update this further and the project comes along....

Cough cough...RaceRunners...cough.

You get the idea.

Why the preference?? less cost for same performance??

I've beat the snot out of mine and they're still in great shape. Like any high-end shock you can rebuild them, but I have yet to have the need. I know several people that run them. Fox is good, don't get me wrong. It's less a preference and more of what I am used to. But then again, they work and work well. There's no guess work involved if I decide to get another pair for the rear....which is likely.

OK...this is progressing very nicely...found a good welder only 1/2 mile from my house--I have used this place before for other stuff and this guy is good--real good--drag races mustangs in his down time...AND my calculations on the new position of the rear shocks is near done...here's what it would look like in moving the passenger side shock (which is already on the rear of the axle)...I'll let my fathers comments try and describe this....

"The "ORIGINAL" angles are damn near exactly 20 degrees and 70 degrees for the triangle of the normally loaded 21 inch shock.
The "NEW" shock position maintains exactly the 21 inch length of the neutral shock, and....
The "NEW" angles are damn near 50 degrees, and 40 degrees.
So, other than the following there's not much to say. The sketch says that the original equipment fits exactly with just moving the lower attach point back 6 inches and up 4 inches (given nothing getting in the way). Probably someone planned it that way.

The thing to be interested in would be whether there's enough travel in the existing shock to allow the 6 inch up and down motion of the axle that you say is needed. I can easily see & tell you how much more the NEW shock has to extend or compress [before it meets snubbers] compared to the OLD position. That travel can't be too much, maybe an inch more I'd guess - and possibly the shock on the XTerra now can do that.

The only other item is whether the shock can really work as well at the increased angle. Maybe a more robust shock with the same dimensions would be preferable?"

So essentially (though I have to check the compression and extension of the extended Bil's) is that your extended length Bil's would fit with this movement of the lower shock mounts to the axle with only an added upper shock mount on the drivers side in an identical placement to the one on the passenger side--though its effectiveness would be decrease substantially as the angle of the shock is increasing from 20 to 40 degrees--therefore to compensate you would go to a higher end shock--perhaps stiffer and with a thicker shaft...Will let you know if there are any further deveolpments...

All this to protect the shock eyes? - And keep the same performance?

You'd think it would be easier to just weld a 1/2" thick gusseted steel shelf off the UBSkiderz to come under the eye.

The Skiderz already lift the eye above the plane of the leaves to start with, so they are almost completely protected upon installation...adding the shelf would therefore not rob clearance, and accomplish all stated objectives.

If you do go with the Rube Goldberg thing afterall, Have Father MIT compute the changes in forces involved with the changes in angles, and the resultant rebound and compression rates.

As you seem to be leaning towards re-buildable custom shocks anyway...you can therefore take advantage of that, and calibrate them as needed.



Sounds like a fun father and son project!

Not JUST to protect the shock eyes--how many times have you or someone you are running with get hung up or bump those shock bottoms or the ubolt bottoms?? I know I have seen it almost EVERY time I've been out...This will protect the shock eye, provide 4 extra inches of ground clearance for about a 3 inch section on either side of the axle and will completely smooth out the ubolt plates...Plus...just imagine how cool it will look from behind as I'm flexing back and forth to see both shocks in full behind the axle going up and down!!

Well, not to argue to cool factors...

but the skiderz also raise the clearance to above the leaves, and do all you seem to want with far less hassle....or I'd be all over your break through in suspension geometry.



It just seems so far beyond the point of diminishing return for so little gain.

For example: The shocks alone you are planning on will cost more than modifying the cross member to allow the extra droop you could have gone for...and a more droop would probably get you more terrain advantages than the little 3" gap next to the leaves.



Maybe at least CONSIDER adding some droop?

please?

for me?

Well...OK...just for you...
I am also going to be adding Deaver springs--going to be asking EditorX for how he ordered his and will be purchasing shocks to cover the extended droop and placing them properly...
Perhaps from the diagram you thought I was gonna purchase shocks that were EXACTLY the same length and such as the extended Bil's--that is not the case....I just wanted a diagram to see what happens when you move the shock mount...Now comes the part where I will adjust to get less angle on the shock and adjust for a longer shock as well....

Don't worry...by the time I'm done I should have at least as much droop and travel as you do
And the ass end of my X will look a hell of a lot sexier too!!

Ahhh....quick redesign issue...the initial design is incorrectly set up--it shows the shock angled FORWARD--towards the front of the truck when in actuality it needs to be angled BACKWARDS--towards the rear of the truck...Thought that was too easy...a redesign is in the works...

Uhh, so in your opinions, are the "skiderz" a good thing? They seem to handle the shock mount and ubolt protection challenges adequately enough..

These along with the SAS leafpacks have brought my ground clearance (from the bottom point of the front spring hanger) to 14.75 inches. The Ubolt heads are tucked nicely in between metal sheets and the shocks tightened snuggly to the large mounting bolt you see there.

Actually, the Skiderz I meant were the Darlington UBSkiderz.







I thought one shock angled foward, and the other back, to help fight hop and wrap issues.

On the OEM, the passenger and drivers side rear shocks are at front of and behind the axle top mount points for that reason...if you make them both the same, you lose half the damping in that direction.

With the SUA setup axle wrap should not be an issue...and secondly there should be no "that direction" in the movement of the axle...the axle should move up and down in a nearly straight line with some movement backwards due to the shackles but many, many, setups have both shocks behind the axle...

Hey - just looking out for you Bro!

Hey, I know...I appreciate it in fact...I welcome all critiques and criticisms...

OK...heres my first set of parts..got them in last night...now just have to get some welding done and determine the upper mount locations...

Any updates?

At the moment....no...still in the process of removing all the spare tire support bracketry in order to get the correct room for the upper shock mounts...will take pics of the underside when that is complete...looks alot cleaner under there without all that extra metal...

Additionally...this type of modification has been done before--though perhaps not in the manner I am thinking about...Got this pic from SLR today showing a show truck that they did in which they moved the shock mounts to the very top of the axle...wish it was a cleaner pic so you could see where the upper mounts now are and how the lower mounts are attached to the axle...but its an interesting pic nontheless--and its an Xterra I've never seen or heard of before as well....

OK...so the process continues...purchased these today: weld in shock studs...

and will be used for the upper mounts...now I have to pick out the exact shocks that I will be using and smooth out the metal around the brace that that the spare was mounted too...have removed all the excess steel that was there to provide the spare bracing via grinder and sawzall...It is coming along....slowly but steadily....

Sweet find on the upper mount. I'm gathering parts now so I'll be heading down this road soon myself.

Yup....a REAL inexpensive way to put in the upper mounts...just drill and weld...looking at the Bilstein 7100 remote's for the shocks....not sure if I can afford the Racerunners or Fox's...and also have to purchase new spring packs as well...Deaver, Alcan, or the Calmini SAS pack...hmmmm.....

Yeah those shocks can be pricey. As far as springs go, you know what I run.

Spalind,
I just talked to those guys about their upper mounts. You are going to be limited on your shock selection now as the mount side of the bolt is 5/8". The high end shocks like RaceRunners and Fox have 1/2" heims on the ends to the won't fit. Check your shocks before you buy so you don't end up screwing yourself.

Hmmm...they were so cheap I didn't even check that...2 questions though...couldn't you just use a spacer to make up the difference between the 5/8 and 1/2?? and secondly...any idea on what size the Bilstein 7100's run?? That would make the decision easy for me...right size and lesser cost....though if the spacer possibility is available...then I'm back at square one in trying to decide between brands of shocks.....

Ahhh....7100's have 1/2" ends as well....Hmmmm...so is like a teflon spacer possible here?

Being that 5/8 is larger than 1/2, I don't think that a spacer will work.

Yeah...correct me if I'm wrong...the 7100's and the Fox/Racerunner shocks have 1/2" ends...thus take up less space than the space these weld in mounts provide (5/8") therefore a 1/8" spacer will account for this extra space...

You might want to spend some time and look at the BugPack catalog and see if any of their bushings might work.

Myself, after taking all possible measurements have decided that this is not a good idea for me. Having shocks on different planes does help prevent axlewrap and the 4 or so inches that you are having to bring up the shocks to put them on the axle would nulify any gains made by moving the shock mount to the axle and mounting them higher at the top mounting point as well.

The reality is that due to the body and gas tank location, you are always going to hae your bump travel limited unless you are willing to cut off the rear of the body and use a fuel cell.

It's not the space around the shock eye you need to worry about. It's the dia. of the hole the bolt passes through that is the issue.

Parts are on the way. MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

What did you order!?!?!? Do tell...do tell!!! Oh...and btw...I was looking at the Fox shocks website and it states that one of the options on their shocks is that they come standard to fit 1/2" bolts but are also available to come shipped with bushings in the eyes to fit 5/8" bolts...so it seems if I went with Fox shocks I could use those weld in shock mounts as long as I asked for the correct bushings to be placed in the upper eye...

I got the lower shock mounts and ubolt plates, same as you. I think that I found a way to do the upper shock mount too...detail to follow later.

You are right about the 5/8 bolt on the FOX shock. KING and RaceRunners are the same. I want the heims on the ends though so I have to keep the 1/2 inch mounting hole.

Can ya PM me with the details on what you are thinking for the upper mounts?

I didn't read the entire thread, but what is the point of moving the shock mount further up? Is it just to get it out of the way of the rocks? I know I've nailed mine several times, and perhaps I'll look at moving the shock mount up this fall, with the addition of the SAS as well.

Yeah...that--at least for me--is the big reason...I didn't like the idea of just replacing the ubolt plate with something like the darlington skidderz as I felt this was a limited solution--still leaving the lowest point in roughly the same spot(though admittedly more protected) also will be moving both shocks to the rear of the axle instead of the current offset situation, further protecting the drivers side shock mount and leaving much less for things to get hung up on...

Nice. I kinda wish I would've done something similar when I did my SOA. But I have another chance at 'er when I finally do the SAS this fall.

Like hearing good ideas. Folks always thinkin', that's how it gets done.

My upper mounts have now arrived and measurements and such are done and it looks like I have two purchases left to make....Calmini leaf packs (going with the SAS leaf replacements as at $299 it is such a bargain I can't help it) and then the shocks (which I still haven't decided on yet...)...Question is on the leafs...I know I should purchase new u-bolts along with the leafs but what about the bushings?? Can I reuse the old bushings or should I purchase new ones?? If so anyone out there have a reccomendation on where and which bushings to get?? Thanks!

Well, the OEM ones are pretty good actually...but you could swap in poly versions, or go wild and just get Orbit-Eyes.

As far as shocks, I would look into the Billstein 12" shortbody. It's going to be the same stroke as the 12inch shock but with the 10inch body. That way you will have the clearance AND the travel.

If you talk to SLR they have worked with Billstein on the valving with a spring pack and no sway bar.

I'd also consider DEAVER's "Baja Bushings" for the rear spring pack.

Baja Bushings Write Up on Trails Less Traveled

Thought about that...but I believe the 7100's have only 1/2" eye's on them and I need 5/8" eyes which Fox, and Racerunners can be ordered with....Please correct me if I am wrong....

Hmmm...those short bodyies are like perfect for the measurements I am looking for...if Bilstein doesnt make bushings to accomodate a 5/8" mount I may have to "reduce" the size of the mounts I have...

Are you going to be using bushings on the shocks instead of taking advantage of the heimed ends? If you are using bushings and want to convert them look into the BugPack bushings I told you about. I hope that if you do go with these shocks you will get the resevoirs otherwise you are really just getting a glorified 5100 shocks.

Yes, I would be getting the remote resevoirs if I get them...do you have to get the heims seperately? I thought the regular bushings were the way they came standard..

7100 + shocks are built with heim ends. Bushings would suggest a urethane or other like matterial such as the 5100 OE type ends.





See the difference?

The BugPack bushings I was telling you about slip into the heims convert the heim fittings to bushings.

No...I think I would stay with the heims and just work to reduce the 5/8" pins to 1/2"...

Can you add Orbit Eyes to regular leaves? I thought that the leaves had to be built with them.

Those Baja Bushings look interesting although I would think we might need custom inners sleeves on one side since the front hanger and rear shackle take different size bolts.

Socal...have you been in contact with Deaver about these already?

Only 12" travel shocks? I get around 11.5" with the stock mounts now with the CALMINI SAS pack. Seems to me that 14" travel shocks would be more worth the work to relocate the mounts, but it is nice to get them out of the bang zone.

No you shouldn’t reuse ubolt’s, lock washers, etc the CALMINI pack comes with new bushings. If you're going to be desert/baja running at speed mostly then the Deaver spring setup like Editor has is better suited for that type of stuff IMO.

True about the springs. Socal runs them too. I am going to call Jeff at Deaver and talk to him about the bushings.

Oh, and welding is taking place on Monday.

The only way you are going to get more shock is to go through the floor or to use the stock lower mounting locations and move the upper mount as high as you can. The obvious limiting factor is the floor of the truck. The difference between us and a pick-up is that they are not exposing the inside of their truck to the elements by building a cage and running the shocks through the floor.

The true advantage of running the 7100 with the resi is the elimination of shock fade do to excessive heat since you now have the resevoir to enhance oil flow and keep temps down. The key to the whole thing is shock valving. You can put a 3.0 King back there and if it isn't valved properly for your aplication it's not going to work.

Brian, these have been out in the market a short time and although I haven't talked to Jeff about them, I am following different opinions of them. My one concern is whether or not they will contribute to additional sway in on road use but from what I can tell it doesn't seem to be an issue.

If you want to read a thread about them on DezerRangers there are quite a few comments including one guy that races on leaf springs that won a recent 1450 race and says they give a leaf spring truck link like performance.

Quick notes from a conversation with Jeff minutes ago -

As opposed to orbit eyes do not have to be built with the pack as a unit therefore can be added to existing pack.

1 1/2 in spring eye with 2.5in. width - one part number...not ours

Top of his head:

SBA2041 Metric 40millimiter made to fit perfect on a 60MM. or 2 1/2 and 40MM with washers that fit against the snap ring inside and will make it work. Currently works with Toyotas with their long travel and likely with Nissan's long travel pack.

Sticker on them that covers liability (Race Use)... teflon coated bearings that Kartek sells replacements to....are a wearable part have to be maintained and checked and replaced when worn .... will possibly create some body roll in street use.

They retail for $165 for the pair to use on the ends at the shakle. Mine go on a week from Monday.

Baja Bushings discussion on DR

Ended up purchasing these... Bilstein 7100\'s will retain the heims on both ends. Went with the 12" travel short bodies as its just cutting things too close compression wise trying to stuff the 14" short bodies or 12" regular body (Fox, RaceRunner, etc.) under there...now its just the Calmini leaf springs and it can all be put on....

I'm going to measure the compressed and extended space available and go from there. I'd hate to get 12's then 14's would fit. Could end out bottoming the shock that way.

yeah, perhaps if I had longer leafs or revolver shackles but the way the measurements came out on mine and the angle I have the shocks at It is my belief the leafs should stop the downward travel before the shocks get to their limits...

If you do decide to go with the 7100 12' short bodies, what valving are you going with. I'm assuming that you are getting rid of the sway bar so you want to make sure you get the equivelant to the 20% stiffer than OE valving.

I would give SLR a call because they have done the research and know how those specific shocks should be valved and can order them as needed through Bilstein.

Delays delays....welder was out sick today. Bummer. :rolleyes:

Don't worry, you'll be done long before me...my shocks still have to come in and I need to get the springs...make sure to take pics ASAP when it gets done...

Perhaps. But by chance I was talking to my neighbor who's a design engineer type. Turns out he used to design suspension for GM. We came up with a nice design and will work very well. I'll PM you if you are interested. It requires a new crossmember where the one that supported my spare tires currently is. Since it's only tack welded there, it will come out and be replaced with something much stronger and higher for shock mounting purposes. This of course leaves the shocks slanted to the rear, but there are advantages to this. I'll tell you about it later if you are interested.

Final design is done and welding will now take place on Friday. I should be able to get you pictures by next week or shortly after.

PM me please

Sweet!! Can't wait to see....

Got 'er DONE!
Pics coming soon.

Bastard!! Can't wait to see....it may change my plans...

It just might. I shot some pics w/o the shocks so you can see everything we did. There's a lot of room under there there now.

And????? Jeez...woke up this AM and first thing I did was come here to see if there were any pics...how dissapointing....

First set of pics.

Lower mount driver side.



Lower passenger side.



Upper mount on DOM crossmember.



The ends of the ubolts still need to be cutoff shorter to be a little less than flush with the bottom of the ubolt plate. The upper mount is 1/4 wall DOM tubing (think shrock sliders) and mounted on 1/4 plate brackets that are then welded to the frame. The whole crossmember takes the place of the one that held the spare tire and it much stronger.



The box also was relocated to the new crossmember and a new piece of exhaust pipe was needed to clear the area for the shock. We cleaned up the underside by removing all the brackets for the sway bar (like I was ever going to use those again) and the old upper shock mounts that were on the frame. I'll have final measurememts later today after I articulate the rear, but from what I can tell the 12 inch shocks I had would have fit very nicely. I might be able to get a 14 inch shock in there, but I'm waiting to see first. I can see there is a lot more space to fill over stock even without measuring though.

Ed, is that the TC lower relocation bracket?
Paint - Rattle can/Powder coated?

Who is doing the work/welding?

Did you do any frame strengthening/gusseting where the upper cross member is hung since there will be the added stress there?

Were you or whoever is coming up with your measurements able to seperate the leaf pack down to just one leaf and cycle it to get shock length measurements?

What are you looking at for compressed/extended lenghts?

Are you going to be running the SAWs on the rear as well? Bypass or smoothy w/resi?

Are you going with the Baja bushings as well?

No on the Baja Bushings.

Jeff at Deaver strongly discourages their use on street driven vehicles due to wear issues. Ed, I know you've spoken to someone that has run them over time on the street but Jeff also said he's had guys that ahve had them wear after as little as one race.

I'm going to wait until I see how long they actually last in daily street/dirt use and what the indications and results are.

Nice...will cross that off the list of considerations....think there is the same issues with the orbit-eyes?

That's why I like the Revolvers...like stock until you need them...and they twist as needed to take the stress off the leafs in torsion.

Here are some short answers for you.
1. A local offroad shop. TC has Dan's race rig in now and can't fit me in the schedule.

2. Gussets are there.

3. No on the leaf packs. 2 fork lifts at Home Depot got the job done.

4. Shock length is 16.5 and 26.5. Running the SAW piggy backs in 2.5 dia. body. See other post for reasons.

5. No on the bushings.

How'd you get the forklifts at HD to do that for ya?? couple buddies who work there??

And I'm not needing super beefy shocks like you is the reason the Bilsteins were fine by me...You do alot more highspeed prerunning/desert style driving than I do....no wide open spaces around here to go running on so the 2.0 Bil's with remote reservoirs should be fine for me...My shocks should be in this week so I probly have like another week and 1/2 to go before I get any welding done...

Scratch the 10 inch shock. Going with the 12's. They will fit just fine. 19.5 collapsed and 31.5 extended. Usind the SAW Racerunner 2.5 dia. Piggybacks.

shocks are in...now just have to get the new rear leafs and then the welding can begin.....

Very shiney. I'll have to shoot a picture of mine so you can see them.

Yes....yes you will....

OK...ordered my rear leaf pack from Calmini....for $299 you can't beat an entire replacement for the rear leafs...plus I don't do nearly the highspeed running that you west coast guys you, so if they are bit more suited for slow speed crawling thats fine by me...They had them in stock and should be here in about 10 days..... Calmini SAS rear leafs..

Leaf springs are in!! Very fast shipping, good customer service from Calmini....Very happy...now for the welding and such...

Nice! Dan, let me know how they work out. I've been looking at these. The price is right.

I've had the SAS leafpacks on for a coupla' few months now and have used them mainly offroad. They are firm but not stiff, and you'll still get the droop too. They are a vast improvement over any other rear susp mods I'd tried previously also. There's the slightest bit of rake as well, which can only be righted using a SAS...But I think it looks great and handles perfect offroad too
Edit to add- Signed, Dan

They can also be dearched.

OK...my relocation is coming along...have the basic welding done and the new leafs (Calmini SAS spring pack) in place...just waiting on the new SS extended rear brake line to come in on Monday and then just the touch up welding and POR-15 paint job...Much cleaner looking underneath and the lower shock mounts are now moved UP and protected both behind the axle and within the new shock mounts...Very happy with the way this has ended up...just will need to test it out on and off road....

Looking good Dan..

x2

Those damn 33"'s in the back are looking awfully small now!!

What lift are you running up front?

When I looked at DBAX' pics it didn't look like he had nearly the rake that you do. Your X seems way high in the back compared to his even though you're both running the same rear springs.

Did the Calmini SAS springs change in some way?

Edit to add that it's good to see your project working out for 'ya.

Just the regular old Calmini lift n front...though...as many Nexterra members will attest...I have never really cranked my T-bars that much and I have been made fun of for having the front end pretty low even before the SAS pack went in...I will be having it evened out a bit before I get the truck back and I will take pics to show the final stance...believe it will have much less rake when this occurs...

Thanks.

Lookin' good. You'll like it when you get it all done. I've been driving mine for a while now since my relocation and love it. I really think it was worth while.