What is everyones opinon on the revolver schackles im thinking about getting a set for my X.

There are some around here that use them to good results. Ive mainly seen them on Jeeps and the performance is impressive. Not sure how they affect handling on the road but if your looking for that type of equipment you probably dont want to cruise the interstates at 80 much.....

Tim

waiting for TJ to chime in here.

Not recommended. They are universally maligned by guys around here as "suicide shackles". 4x4 publications don't think much of 'em, either. I looked into them a few years ago and decided they were detrimental to my rig.

A gas tank skid plate is a better use of cash, IMO.

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=73;t=001590;p=4

Yeah - they are maligned by those who don't have them, and don't know how they work....its amazing how many wrong ideas are out there.

Most of the problems come from the same problems off roaders run into when they make a mod w/o understanding it...like adding 44" tires to a wrangler, and blowing the diffs, jacking up a truck, and then getting off camber with the new higher center of gravity, and rolling over, etc.

So - Revolvers give you a couple of more inches of droop than a regular shackle...say like having the lift of a 3" SL, but the travel of a 5" SL, etc.

As the rear droops more, the drive train, shocks, etc...need to be able to reach.

I've seen people toss on longer shackles (Not just Revolvers, same deal there too...), and spit out drive shafts on hill climbs, over extend shocks, etc.

If you install mods with some concept of what's involved, there's no more trouble with a Revolver than any other mod...its fairly straight forward really.

So - part of the misconceptions are repeated stories about "a guy who spit a shaft or rolled over" w/o context, and the other part (A HUGE part), is the plane on the tread mill-like lack of understanding of how they actually work.

The primary mis-understandings involve the idea that -

"an axle that droops against a spring its hanging from, pushes down on the earth harder than an axle that is LESS pulled up"...seriously, some people think a revolver'd axle has no weight pushing down, compared to an axle with a solid shackle...go figure.

The other mis-understanding is that a truck is held on the earth by the leaf springs, not by gravity...so if you don't hold the truck down, it floats off into space....they call this "unloading".

It doesn't actually happen, I tried to go down hills so steep that stock trucks ass ends did leave the ground, doing front wheelies if they braked a bit, etc...but the Revolver'd ass end did not leave the ground, it stayed ON the ground...no unloading or other whacky physics appeared to amuse onlookers, etc.

When any off road mishap occurs, people look for why...its how we learn.

As a species though, we tend to be big on associations...and, there's a strong history of correlation = causation going on.



So - If something on a truck is different from the others...we tend to blame THAT on why the mishap occurred...so if a guy rolls because he missed the line by a fraction of an inch, or the line was altered by the previous truck and now the rut/root leaned him a bit more over, etc...so he rolled...people typically miss that level of detail (Its hard to see of course, hell, the DRIVER typically didn't know, etc....).

So - what's different, that MIGHT make a roll? Too much lift? Too stiff a suspension, so that he couldn't stuff the tire, and it pushed him over? An Antenna Medicine Ball? He's really fat? "Whacky Shackles? Etc....

....that's how it works....its human nature.



So - in my experience with jeeps for decades, and X's etc...the Revolvers work great, are not a problem, any more than any other mod you might make....unless you are sensitive to the opinions of people who don't have them/don't know how they work, etc.

nice.

I have them. I love them. I do, however, need longer shocks. They are on my 05. They were installed 2 weeks ago, and I have done two weekends of trails with them. So far no problem on the trails or highway. Here are some pics from today:

holy hell lol thats alot of flex with just shackles! thats sick man. gl w/your decision man but i think if you want that lil bit of extra flex then the revolvers would be the way to go.

I also wanted to point this out. This has been quoted from an article that dislikes revolvers (Lamest 4x4 Products).

"Revolvers, or any homebuilt wacky shackle. Gawd, makes us just want to turn around if we get behind a guy running these things on the trail because of how many driveshafts we've seen bind and spit out on their behalf-especially while climbing a ledge. They unload and cause the springs to jack, sending the rear pinion toward the floor and the front toward the ground, negating any traction the tires may get. Just a bad idea all around unless all you care about is RTI ramp scores."

The same articles says this about steel bumpers.

"Bumpers made from square or rectangle tube? Just ugly. With all the manufacturing technology available today, we can't understand why anyone would want to replace a good-looking factory bumper with square stock-especially on late-model Jeeps. Buildings, trailers, and farm-animal feeders should be made from square and large-diameter round tube, not Jeep parts."

And we all know a majority of Xterra owners would not consider a steel bumper lame. There is plenty of articles out there on these shackles, just do your reading and research before making your decision.

How do the revolver shackles handle in the event of a Panic stop on the street?
Do they unload and send the rear of the truck in the air while nose diving the front?
That would be interesting to see.

They are not really spring-loaded, how can they unload? Afterall, the truck is supported by it's weight, right? So if the revolver actually "unloaded" and sent the ass in the air, a regular shackle would have just lifted the axle off the ground, which does not make sense.

I think people seem to think that what's holding the truck to the ground is the axle and with no axle the truck would just bobble like a slinky.

That and the truck would have to have to front shocks..... SAS with springs and revolvers up front might have trouble with the sudden stopping....

Naw - the shackles don't make much difference in braking either, or cornering for that matter...they act exactly like regular shackles in that regard.

They are folded when gravity is not pulling the axle down (It NEVER pulls the truck UP, only the axle down...)

When folded, they support the weight of the truck exactly like a regular shackle does.

I've nailed the brakes in emergency stops, and nothing unusual ever happened, even if turning while braking, etc...except on one of the straight stops, the Honda behind me crashed into my ass end so hard the Honda was totaled...(Lady ran a stop sign RIGHT in front of me...Honda behind me was unattentive despite tail gating).

Luckily, the Shrock took the rear impact, and I had ZERO damage, which was cool.



So - braking, cornering, climbing, decending...no problems...gravity is pretty reliable, and so far, the X has not tried to float into space despite having Revolvers.



Again - they are just shackles that go a bit longer...they are not anti-gravity machines...regular shackles swing to let the leaf pack droop more, etc...the Revolvers give the extra droop with an articulated joint as well, that can relieve the tension on the leaf pack when its flexed, etc....

....they work like other shackles do, only better, that's pretty much it.



Any lifted truck is going to lean more during directional changes, fore/aft, or, side to side, etc...its got a higher center of gravity (COG) if its lifted.

My 3" SL used a shackle that made me 1.5" higher...I replaced it with a Revolver Shackle that only made me 2/3" higher...but gave me more droop...so my COG was better, not worse...but the tires could stay on the ground with the travel normally associated with a 4-5" lift.

If you want better articulation, invest in a full spring pack.

If your goal is to score high on an RTI ramp, then by all means.

But if you want meaningful traction with your flex, save your money and don't buy gimmicky items. Period.

(PS: Rarely ever does the driver of a rig actually see what happens to their revolvers when they're going through an obstacle... And even more rare is somebody watching that knows WTF they're looking at. So they get boggled by the "flex" without considering everything else. And the joker that spent top dollar on their gimmick isn't EVER going to admit they're worth no more than a decent size paperweight, 'cause afterall, THEY spent THEIR money on 'em, so they've "got" to be great....)

sigh...

Please explain the physics that support your view that articulation with a shackle is worse than articulation with a leaf.

Here. Let me pretend to be Brent for a moment:

SEARCH YOU LAZY BASTARD. THIS HAS BEEN COVERED BEFORE. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND...

The fact that X's don't float into space if the shackles are longer was covered.

NO ONE has been able to explain why the X is going to act like a helium balloon tethered to the shackle...THAT'S the explaination the "I Never had them, but I think the plane can't take off if its on a tread mill" needs to support their theory...

...in contrast to emperical evidence to the contrary.



When you are ready to make that FIRST post explaining why a longer shackle is going to make the X float...THEN Brent can tell someone to search for it.

If you would SEARCH, you'd find that I have NEVER said the X will take off like a balloon...

Look, if you are correct that only gravity allows a tire to droop farther with a revolver shackle, then the obvious conclusion is there is no weight of the truck exerted at that wheel. Which means there's no useable traction, because there's no weight other than just the weight of the tire.

I can't help it if you can't take your OWN reasoning to its conclusion. Revolvers add flex; they don't add flex with traction. Which means they're virtually useless on the trail, and are only good for photo shoots and the before-mentioned RTI ramp.

You do realize you contradicted yourself with those two statements now in bold.

articulation is what the RTI ramp scores

Furthermore Traction is based on weight distribution and trust angle, the revolver, un-flexed will give you a better thrust angle with less drive line angle verus a standard lift shackle.

No, I didn't. You didn't comprehend what I was saying.

1) if you want flex, buy a better leaf pack.

2) if all you want to do is score high on an RTI ramp, buy revolvers.

3) don't waste your money on gimmick items that don't give you any more meaningful traction with your flex.

Is that a little more clear for 'ya, or will I have to paint 'ya a picture, too.../

So, let me see.

If a high score on a RTI ramp = Revolvers,
and a RTI ramp is for articulation,
and articulation = flex, which is also = to a good leaf pack, would not one want both?

oooh!

and if flex=muscles
and muscles=women
and women=evil
THEN REVOLVERS=EVIL!

However, that also means revolvers equal two women minus muscles...
TJ, is this true? are you gettin' crazy amounts of limp vag with them? I'll take a set if so.

OK - Revolvers help you get evil women?



Look, you make statements that the drooped tire has no traction...but they are based upon nothing.

In fact, at the same point in droop, the Revolver droop has MORE - not less traction.

Explaination:

ALL drooping tires, regardless of suspension, are dropping because the weight of the axle is pulling them down...the truck is NOT getting lighter, so it drops because the truck is rising with the terrain...or it drops because the ground is falling away under the tire, and the tire is falling into the depression/following the terrain down due to gravity.

All suspensions are supporting the weight of the truck in total....with 4 tires.

When one tire is lower, the other three (etc...) are reproportioned, as the weight is diverted to the other tires.

Once the truck's weight is supported at one corner, at ride height, the amount supported drops as the tire drops....for ALL suspensions.

If that were not true...what forces would explain the tire drooping at all?

The droop of the regular suspension is fighting the leaf pack on the way down once it has dropped lower than its last vestiges of support....which occurs at the point at which you can rattle the shackle, say to change the bushings, etc.

______________

Example:

So - When I drooped a side with my Calmini Lift Shackle...at the point where it had dropped to the neutral zone, ...about where you take out/put in the shackle bushings for example....the tire had only the axle weight to pull it down...as I PASSED that zone, so now the FLEX of the pack was allowing the axle to droop FURTHER...I was loosing traction/weight on the tire...

...As the tire was drooping down, flexing the pack further and further, it had PROGRESSIVELY less weight on the tire...the tire was essentially HANGING from the leaf pack...

...pulling itself down against the resistance of the stiffening leaves.

So - at FULL DROOP, lets say a point where the tire's top was even with the lower wheel well edge...there was NO weight on the tire at all...zero traction...its just hanging there...one more fraction of a mm higher, and its getting air, etc...



Summary - the leaf pack reduces the traction progressively with droop.

______

Same example - with the Revolver:

The suspension supports the weight exactly the same way, and, as the weight is reduced by droop, as the tire follows the terrain, etc...the truck's weight on the tire drops proportionally, exactly like the regular shackle.

When the top of the tire reaches the previous neutral point, the shackle can unfold, and allow the tire to continue to droop, WITHOUT THE TRACTION BEING REDUCED BY THE LEAF PACK PULLING BACK UP ON IT.



So - at the exact same point that the Calmini Shackle had ZERO traction...The Revolver is providing about the same traction the Calmini shackle had at the previous neutral point.

This weight on the tire continues though, and is not reduced as the shackle unfolds...until it too reaches its extended droop limit, exactly like any other shackle...just later/drooped further.

---------

That's how it works....and that's why the uninformed re-hashes of old myths are bunk.

TJ:

One of these days, you're going to actually build a rig that can do something, and you're going to be very, very upset you preached on and on about your gimmick revolver shackle.

Words just bounce off, don't they?



I didn't preach, I explained.

You Preached...no explanation...just re-saying the same myths....a sermon on the evils of revolvers.

But - No counter points to the above "how it works" info.



You're not a dumb guy....I like you, but, this is YOUR plane on the tread mill.