I spent a good part of this morning looking over all of the available steering kits for the X. None of them offer a shear point on the knuckle. I've tried to break mine in the testing phase. Apos has seen the kind of stress I put mine though before he bought his. I think they will last. The thought of stronger bolts? Never a bad idea really with any part that handles a load. What's a few bucks for added peace of mind right? I have a feeling you might have gotten a bad bolt or something though DR with the system you tested for AC. Like I said, this style of system has been race proven over the last 5 years.

***I've been typing this over the course of an hour at work so bear with me***

Also, I think the addition of some sort of shear mount would greatly impact the articulation of the part. There is no way to do it, at least I don't think so by just looking at pictures, of building a shear point and not having it come in contact with the tierod or heim end itself.

Back to work....again.

I have 2 questions for you guys with the TC steering...

1) if one heim joint does eventually wear out, what are the options for replacement? I didn't see any single units available on the TC website, and 500$ is a bit much to throw down for another set if one would wear out.

2) Does this bypass the bronze bushing wear issue of other steering setups like calmini? I still have the stock setup and I'm trying to decide the right course of action to beef up my steering. I really don't want to mess with a bushing that could possible fail every couple of months, but I'm not sure which part of the other steering systems are prone to this accelerated wear.

1) Do you see the heim joint, how it's screwed into the tie rod adjuster? That's replaceable at any store that sells heims. Granted, they're expensive, but they are replaceable, and not dependent on TC for a replacement, if you can find them elsewhere. They shouldn't wear out, though; not in your trucks lifetime!

2) It could possibly still wear out idler arm bushings, since as long as there's an idler arm, there's a potential for that wear to happen. I wouldn't worry about it in this case; it appears that only 1 manufacturer has chronic idler bushing problems. Not to mention, that since TC, SLR, and L&P use a stock idler arm, bushings are cheaper, and more readily available for replacement, when the time comes.

airbornenurse you have a pm.

I'll tackle these one at a time. The heims are available at a variety of places. Try these guys if you want. Linky
Keep them clean and you probably won't have a problem though.

Second, there is no bronze bushing in the TC idler arm. The IA is a totally new design using 4130 chromoly materials inside and out. The only thing that is used from the OEM setup is the IA pin and that is gussetted with a 4130 chromoly sleeve. The bearings are double stacked and sealed so you will never have to mess with them. Ever.

TC bulit their own IA from scratch. Why work with a OEM flawed design right? See a previous post for specifics on design and materials.

More heim information. Not all heims are created equal. TC uses JMX series heims from KarTek. They are teflon lined and 4130 chromoly.

Well since you were comparing I thought I'd throw some observations out to chew on.

The TC pivots are relocated and are using the long travel pivots on a non-long travel aplication. That will induce bump steer even though they increased the tie rod length.

On the tie rod side the 3/4 rod end puts it too high because you can't get it close enough to the floor. And when it's drilled it will wallow the knuckle on the heim joint tie rod side , and the 1/2 bolt is in single sheer which is prone to break.

Unless you are going to be running your truck in extreme (read: pre-running and high speed aplications) TREs are a cheaper and more effective way to go for 95% of the aplications out there.

I do find that the "TC engineered" centerlink design looks somewhat femiliar though.


Click for HUGE

Capture in double sheer due to the SLR bolt on spindle extension. Safer is better :

Click thumb:

My mistake. I didn't look at the picture carefully enough. However, it appears to be approximately the same, as it appears that the idler arm shaft is still the same stock part. Went to their web page, and the gist I can tell from their description, and the pictures, is that it's reusing stock idler arm shaft, but the idler arm itself is unique. It's not the connection of the centerlink to the idler arm that's a problem w/ the other steering packages; it's the idler arm connection to the idler arm shaft. I don't see anything in the TC description or pictures, that shows it would be any stronger (or weaker) than the SLR or L&P setups.

If there are still bushings in there (which there are...you can tell in the picture rather easily), then there's still the wearable part. No big deal, though, as there MUST be something there, at the connection. Bushings are wearable parts. The goal is just to get something that wears slower than the men in blue's setup...

Pat, get off your high horse for a moment. The flawed design I was refering to was the OEM part. Also, you and I and everyone else who reads these boards know you and I drive very unique rigs in the X world. Each one has it's pluses and minuses. I am no more qualified to talk about your rig, and I don't aside from the occasional I like coils vs. t-bars thing, than you really are qualified to talk about mine. You have not seen it, ridden in it or driven it, so 'till then shut your pie hole. If you had even shown up at the DX event held at SLR you would have had the chance. In truth I was bummed you didn't and I know you were working. We still need to get out together sometime. Anyway, if you were there you would have heard Spencer himself comment on the setup. Totally paraphrasing here but "SLR and TC both make really good stuff. They do it one way, we do it another." Total class act on Spencer and Josh's part. Perhaps a lesson here? As a side note, Apos has no issuse with his system. Talk to him if you like.

Back to sounding civil:
If you want to get together soon, you still have my number.

Can't run that with a standard 3 inch lift now can you?

and as for this:
Dude, look at the pictures. SLR's design is rotated 90 degrees from that of the TC setup. Totally different design so let's not go down that road.

Dave ,dude, no high horse or animosity intended. If my thoughts were perceived as being negative they weren't meant that way. I was just pointing out differences in the design and possible concerns. I guess diplomacy doesn't always translate well over the net. You should read the GIANT Vs. Camburg and Camburg Vs. everyone else threads on dezert rangers. Those are doozies.

I was 98% joking when I put up the picture of the spindle there. It was only since I know no one has anything like it. Also it was humerous to me if you remember the discusion on nissanoffroad where someone was convinced it isn't double sheer.

Are you ever off during the week? I'd love to go out on a less crowded Monday if you're ever able to.

Patrick.

From what I can tell, the TC system is comparable to SLR's in price range, and no matter how cheap the calmini system is, I'm afraid to order anything from them with the issues of customer service I've been hearing lately... well that and the bushing issue.

Hopefully this will answer your questions. I got a reply email from the guys at TC with all the details you could want....I think. Here you go.

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The idler arm is built from scratch from 4130. it uses double stacked 5/8" sealed rolled bearings for the pivot on the centerlink. it reuses the factory idler pin only, it comes with a 4130 inner sleeve that slides over the idler pin, at the top and the bottom of the idler arm are 1" i.d. brass thrust washers. in between the inside of the idler arm and the inner sleeve are teflon lined bushings. can u say overkill. Also a complete rebuild kit is available for under $30.00. the idler arm brace is also included.

There are "bushings" in this idler arm but the rebuild is cheep and easy. this is the same teflon bushings we use in the toyota king kong kit that we have sold a ton of kits and only a couple rebuild kits. technically they can wear, yet with the use of the idler arm brace that is included there should be almost no wear. you and diablo are the lab rats for this system, and do we have any issues... i don't think so.

EDIT TO ADD:

more info from TC

****************From TC********
Our heim upgrade is not in any way amplifying the factory bump steer, it just leaves it alone.
As far as the heigth difference between the heims and the OEM TRE's that difference is so slight that no one would notice, again it will not amplify the factory geometry or cause added bump steer.
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The "diablo" they refer to is their red Frontier. I hope this clears up everything for you.

I have been told by Admin/Carlton to not answer any more questions about Total Chaos or their product line. Please direct all your questions to them via web or phone.

I told him that if Total Chaos wants to advertise and promote their products that they should step up and support this board just like the Xterraparts , Shrockworks , Calmini and Tire Rack do and not circumvent the process by having a member do all the talking for them.

As I said in our private conversation, I am not promoting anything mearly answering questions that I am, or rather was, the only person on this board qualified to do so. I would have said the same thing if I were to run SLR or the men in blue. Be that as it may, like I also said privately, it's your board. Let's leave it at that.