Yo 4 Wheel Wizards,

I know this is going to be like throwing a whisky bottle in a drunk tank, but here it go anyways...

Does anyone in the group have any opinions about lockers on the X?...

I am trying to decide between electric (LockRight), air (ARB), or Detroit lockers for the front diff. And if my decision isn't hard enough, Calmini now offers a LSD for the front.

I plan to keep the LSD in the back until I burn up the clutches and then match the front.

An open diff on the front is just sucky. Since the X is running free hubs the Detroit is looking good.

Options?

See ya on the Mohave Road (19-21 April),
Doc

ARB from AC is about your only choice right now! Detroit Lockers are just to harsh for everyday driving!!!!

My understanding of the Lock-right is that it is like a limted slip, and not a true locker.
The Detriot locker has 2 drawbacks. 1) it will be harsh for a daily driver, and on road conditions; 2) and unless I am mistaken, you'll need to replace the differential housing for the Detriot Locker to fit.

Currently, ARB makes the only true locker that doesn't require a replacement of the diff housing, and Eaton is coming out with a electronic locker (sometime, who knows when) but that may or may not require a diff housing replacement also.
Downsides to the ARB are cost, and that you'll need to install compressor, and if you do that, you might as well go with the tanks and install an on board air system as well (it is worth it if you decide to go the air route).

Personally, I'll probably get the LSD for the front before I go with lockers, but that does depend on what lockers I get. I'd like to go with electronic lockers, depending on when the lockers become availible and how much they cost. However, I am thinking about going with an onboard air system, and if I do that, it makes it worthwhile for me to install ARB lockers.

The Lock Right isn't electric its fully automatic. So it's working all the time, even when you're on the road.
It's setup to allow you to make turns and have the outside wheel turn faster than the inside. When you make turns you can hear a soft ratcheting sound as the locker slips to keep the drive line from binding.

It is a locker though so when you lift one wheel in the air all the power will go the wheel on the ground.

Lock-Right

Thanks to all,

I think I have some of this sorted out... Since I do plan to buy some type of air unit (my Walmart special is dying), the ARB is looking better.

Aside from the money, I've never heard anything bad about the ARB.

I will post the results after the mod...

See ya on the Mohave Road,
Doc

Never heard anything bad about ARB? You must not be looking hard enough. Not to say I wouldn't own one, but I shyed away from them because of the multitude of horror stories from people I know who have owned them. Of the 30 or so people I know running them, only one person has not had any real issues out on the trail.

-P

Please, do everybody here a favor, share what you know with us. We don't need "he said she said" stories, or "my brother's sister's aunt's uncle had a Ford with an ARB and it let loose on him causing his truck to run over 50 people" type of stories either.

If you're going to say that 29 out of 30 ARB owners is going to have problems, qualify your statements.

Looking forward to hearing about the results...Is this something you will do relatively soon?

See you on the Mojave Road also

Gladly,

The primary problems with ARBs, are:

1. Many points of failure
2. Difficult install
3. User intervention required
4. User maintenance required.

More on this.

Item #1

The ARB requires that you have a proper installation, it requires airtight sealing connections, it requires 12v of power, and it requires a minimum of 80psi in low volumes to remain engaged. A failed airline, air fitting, o-ring, compressor, relay, fuse, switch, or faulty wire, can render them inoperative.

Item #2

Installing an ARB is considered the most difficult by most shops (its not, but it is the hardest common install). The failure to excercise due care can mean the system may not work once installed, or may fail shortly after install. The biggest problem is the installer pinching of nicking the o-ring on the carrier which cause premature failure.

Item #3

Locking the Diff requires the user to switch the unit on and off. Not normally a problem, but can become a problem if the unit doesn't unlike when you want it to. Common issue here is to be in the middle of a tough climb, with the front locked, need to change lines, and switch off the front locker switch. Locker doesn't disengage because of driveline wind-up. So you have to back off your climb 3-6 feet, pick the new line, re-engage the locker, and try again.

Item #4

The ARB locker needs to be engaged at least once per month to keep the o-ring lubricated. failure to do this will allow it to become dry and brittle and not hold air. I had to winch one poor bastard for HOURS in Atlanta 2 years ago when his dual ARB equipped truck had both o-rings fail. He was on basically in an open diff truck with a foot and a half of mud keeping him from getting traction. He mentioned he had last engaged his lockers about 6 months prior in Tellico. His was not the only ARB failure that weekend.

-P

Usually you can get by just giving the throttle a short boost to relieve the pressure for just a moment. I'd rather just leave them on till the top and turn them off when you're done (or reach a level spot).

OK Guys I got it... There are problems with ARBs...

In fact, this is what my Gear Guys says...

The front diff on an Xterra (R180) is the old Z rear end. My Gear Guy refered to it at the Rubics Cube of diffs... real hard to work on. But, and this is a big butt, combine difficult diff and complex ARB and you have a real nightmare... lots of points of failure.

My Gear Guy called Powerlock (LockRight) and they said there "may" be a rear locker (C200 diff) this Fall for the X, but none for the front.

But, and this is another big butt... My Gear Guy says, "Wait." Xterra 4X4's are selling like crazy and the market will come to us. This time next year there may be as many as three lockers for the X.

So I will put my money in an interest bearing account and wait.

Thanks to all, and continue to dream of piles of rocks and sand.

Doc

I didn't mean to put you off ARBs. They are good lockers. My wheeling partner for the last couple of years ran ARBs in his D90. He never had a minutes trouble. However, he was very careful about engaging them every couple of weeks, oiling things properly, keeping a spare airline, fittings, relays, solenoids and switch. He never used them, but he had them.

As I say, I wasn't trying to discourage you, only trying to help you go into your decision with your eyes open. If I had the tolerance for failure, or planned to do serious rock-crawling, they would be high on my list. You are probably going to run a compressor anyway for airing up tires so that is one major part of the equation. And I believe several members here of the XOC are already running ARB lockers. You should find out what their experiences have been as that is the real test.

Whatever you decide, good luck to you. It took me three years to get to lockers on my truck, but it's going to be worth every dime of it and every month that I had to wait.

-P

Most Xterra's (all V6 models) use the H233B 33 spline rear axle, not the C200.

If the front diff is indeed the R180, perhaps there are LSD's designed for 300Z's that could be used in the Xterra.

I could have sworn we had R200 up front...

Brent

Better get a new gear guy. Your current one doesn't know squat about the Xterra.

My ARB installer had no problems installing the front and rear lockers.

Rear locker installed 2/01, front installed 7/01. These are easily the best off-roading mod I have made. They are FANTASTIC in dry conditions; only a slight help in slick conditions - mud, ice, etc where tires are the limiting factor.

The only trouble I have had is with breaking the activating pin on the switch face plates. I carry 2 spares now. If you want lockers today, then ARB is your choice - tomorrow - who knows.

The stock ARB installtion includes a compressor with a small built in tank. This works fine. If you want to power air tools or have a larger air tank, then cost and problems are going to escalate. Warmonger is the authority on this.

If you need an air locker now go with ARB.

Tomorrow Eaton's E-Locers would be the way to go.
They get rid of alot of the problems of the ARB.

The drawbbacks are that they aren't proven and Eaton keeps pushing the relase date back.
6 months ago they said they would come out in spring 2002, then it became fall 2002, last I heard was spring 2003.

Since I wont have the money for a year or two anyway, I'm willing to wait. Till then I'll struggle offroad the way I always have...
with luck.

ARB's are a good unit, but NOT entirely bombproof. The most comon problem i have seen on the trails is line failure. While this isn't a dificult repair, it sure is a major PITA when you need a locked frontend to get out of a situation. Wrangler peple have been breaking the D30 ARB's alot recently, but most of the time with 36'+ tires and lots of skinny pedal. In all likelyhood, you won't have any major trouble with your ARB, but if you do, it will suck. Also, if you ever decide to do a solid axle conversion, your are out a lot of money on the ARB. Jus my $.02, good luck to you

I actually talked to a factory rep from Eaton (he called me)... I guess after a million e-mails clogging up their box, it was worth a call to get rid of me.

The rep said that Spring of 2003 is the current release date for electric lockers for the X. AND they are working with Nissan to offer lockers as a factory option. AND IF that happens, adding Eaton lockers would not void the drive train warranty.

Of course this is all BS, and I deny all knowledge of the conversation, and it was somebody else... and...

Push a button and climb a hill... got to be way cool.

See ya on the trail,
Doc

Bested only by my rig setup. Point truck at hill, climb!

Hopefully Tractech will get on the ball and come up with a Detroit Locker, and a Truetrac for you guys. One of the biggest faults I have with a locked front end is that you can't steer the damn thing. So you had better be pointed where you want to go when you engage the front locker. With the trutrac, you can turn just like you have an open diff, but you're getting 90-95% of the traction of a locker depending on application.

Tractech is also working on a line of electronic lockers but they appear to be further from delivery than Eaton's. Once you wheel locked, you'll never want to wheel open again. And despite claims, drving a Detroit on the street isn't bad at all. I was somewhat concerned but all my fears were unfounded.

-P

The Electrac has been getting nowhere fast, I heard about it over a year ago and even then it was "coming soon" but only for your more common domestic applications. I'm not holding my breath, but I would still love to see it for my X. I imagine the LSD would actually work RESPECTABLY unlike the factory one, and if it's not enough, flick a switch and it locks. Sweet.

Brent

I'm still not sold on the idea of a front locker compared to a good front limited slip. Besides that obvious pain in the ass of not being able to steer with it engaged, it's very hard on the CV joints, power steering, etc.

A good limited slip, like a Torsen gives almost the same traction as a locker, has no switches to fool with, works transparently unlike clutch-pack limited slips, and you can steer with it working. They are usually cheaper than a locker too which is a small added bonus. The only real downside is that it makes the car steer a bit heavier. For some that's a good thing since highway driving is improved a LOT. The car wants to track dead straight all the time.

-P

What’s up Doc

If you’re planning on keep the IFS in the long term I would go with the Fuji made LSD up front that Calmini offers.

After running behind the Calmini Frontier with this LSD up front + stock LSD in the rear at GoneMoab I was impressed how well/tight the front LSD worked much like a spool.

Of course with a front LSD we would be asking you to try all the crazy stuff on the trails first so you could be the guinea for the rest of the “hardcore crowd”

Xtoolbox,

OK, ya now know my secret. I have been hanging out with a bad Jeep crowd... I have locker envy.

You are right that LSD steers and handles well on the front, and that lockers screw up your steering (unless you are going straight), but I have the bug... I want to crawl!!!

The Calmini crawler gear make me break into a sweat, and don't even mention full skid plates...

On the 27th of April the local SD 4 Wheelers are having a trail clean up day in Coral Canyon... Its a cool thing help out with local trail maintenance, and rumor is that there will be more than one X in the group... I wonder who will be going?

See ya on the Mohave Road... off the hook...
Doc

That has not been my experience with an ARB
front locker. I feel almost no resistance going
up hill, quite a bit on downhill hairpin turns.

I've been taken to task privately for only pointing out the good things about an LSD, so to even out the sheet, I will point out some weaknesses:

1. They do not lock 100% like a locker and therefore will not be as effective in extreme situations

2. They are likely not as strong as the best carrier replacement lockers such as the Detroit Locker or ARB. The Tractech truetrac indicates it should not be used with tires taller than 33".

3. If used in the front, it will affect steering by making the truck understeer somewhat.

4. It will place more strain on your steering components than an open diff, although not as much as a full locker.

...I can't think of anything else.

-P