Yo 4 Wheel Wizards,

I know this is going to be like throwing a whisky bottle in a drunk tank, but here it go anyways...

Does anyone in the group have any opinions about lockers on the X?...

I am trying to decide between electric (LockRight), air (ARB), or Detroit lockers for the front diff. And if my decision isn't hard enough, Calmini now offers a LSD for the front.

I plan to keep the LSD in the back until I burn up the clutches and then match the front.

An open diff on the front is just sucky. Since the X is running free hubs the Detroit is looking good.

Options?

See ya on the Mohave Road (19-21 April),
Doc

ARB from AC is about your only choice right now! Detroit Lockers are just to harsh for everyday driving!!!!

My understanding of the Lock-right is that it is like a limted slip, and not a true locker.
The Detriot locker has 2 drawbacks. 1) it will be harsh for a daily driver, and on road conditions; 2) and unless I am mistaken, you'll need to replace the differential housing for the Detriot Locker to fit.

Currently, ARB makes the only true locker that doesn't require a replacement of the diff housing, and Eaton is coming out with a electronic locker (sometime, who knows when) but that may or may not require a diff housing replacement also.
Downsides to the ARB are cost, and that you'll need to install compressor, and if you do that, you might as well go with the tanks and install an on board air system as well (it is worth it if you decide to go the air route).

Personally, I'll probably get the LSD for the front before I go with lockers, but that does depend on what lockers I get. I'd like to go with electronic lockers, depending on when the lockers become availible and how much they cost. However, I am thinking about going with an onboard air system, and if I do that, it makes it worthwhile for me to install ARB lockers.

The Lock Right isn't electric its fully automatic. So it's working all the time, even when you're on the road.
It's setup to allow you to make turns and have the outside wheel turn faster than the inside. When you make turns you can hear a soft ratcheting sound as the locker slips to keep the drive line from binding.

It is a locker though so when you lift one wheel in the air all the power will go the wheel on the ground.

Lock-Right

Thanks to all,

I think I have some of this sorted out... Since I do plan to buy some type of air unit (my Walmart special is dying), the ARB is looking better.

Aside from the money, I've never heard anything bad about the ARB.

I will post the results after the mod...

See ya on the Mohave Road,
Doc

Never heard anything bad about ARB? You must not be looking hard enough. Not to say I wouldn't own one, but I shyed away from them because of the multitude of horror stories from people I know who have owned them. Of the 30 or so people I know running them, only one person has not had any real issues out on the trail.

-P

Please, do everybody here a favor, share what you know with us. We don't need "he said she said" stories, or "my brother's sister's aunt's uncle had a Ford with an ARB and it let loose on him causing his truck to run over 50 people" type of stories either.

If you're going to say that 29 out of 30 ARB owners is going to have problems, qualify your statements.

Looking forward to hearing about the results...Is this something you will do relatively soon?

See you on the Mojave Road also

Gladly,

The primary problems with ARBs, are:

1. Many points of failure
2. Difficult install
3. User intervention required
4. User maintenance required.

More on this.

Item #1

The ARB requires that you have a proper installation, it requires airtight sealing connections, it requires 12v of power, and it requires a minimum of 80psi in low volumes to remain engaged. A failed airline, air fitting, o-ring, compressor, relay, fuse, switch, or faulty wire, can render them inoperative.

Item #2

Installing an ARB is considered the most difficult by most shops (its not, but it is the hardest common install). The failure to excercise due care can mean the system may not work once installed, or may fail shortly after install. The biggest problem is the installer pinching of nicking the o-ring on the carrier which cause premature failure.

Item #3

Locking the Diff requires the user to switch the unit on and off. Not normally a problem, but can become a problem if the unit doesn't unlike when you want it to. Common issue here is to be in the middle of a tough climb, with the front locked, need to change lines, and switch off the front locker switch. Locker doesn't disengage because of driveline wind-up. So you have to back off your climb 3-6 feet, pick the new line, re-engage the locker, and try again.

Item #4

The ARB locker needs to be engaged at least once per month to keep the o-ring lubricated. failure to do this will allow it to become dry and brittle and not hold air. I had to winch one poor bastard for HOURS in Atlanta 2 years ago when his dual ARB equipped truck had both o-rings fail. He was on basically in an open diff truck with a foot and a half of mud keeping him from getting traction. He mentioned he had last engaged his lockers about 6 months prior in Tellico. His was not the only ARB failure that weekend.

-P

Usually you can get by just giving the throttle a short boost to relieve the pressure for just a moment. I'd rather just leave them on till the top and turn them off when you're done (or reach a level spot).

OK Guys I got it... There are problems with ARBs...

In fact, this is what my Gear Guys says...

The front diff on an Xterra (R180) is the old Z rear end. My Gear Guy refered to it at the Rubics Cube of diffs... real hard to work on. But, and this is a big butt, combine difficult diff and complex ARB and you have a real nightmare... lots of points of failure.

My Gear Guy called Powerlock (LockRight) and they said there "may" be a rear locker (C200 diff) this Fall for the X, but none for the front.

But, and this is another big butt... My Gear Guy says, "Wait." Xterra 4X4's are selling like crazy and the market will come to us. This time next year there may be as many as three lockers for the X.

So I will put my money in an interest bearing account and wait.

Thanks to all, and continue to dream of piles of rocks and sand.

Doc

I didn't mean to put you off ARBs. They are good lockers. My wheeling partner for the last couple of years ran ARBs in his D90. He never had a minutes trouble. However, he was very careful about engaging them every couple of weeks, oiling things properly, keeping a spare airline, fittings, relays, solenoids and switch. He never used them, but he had them.

As I say, I wasn't trying to discourage you, only trying to help you go into your decision with your eyes open. If I had the tolerance for failure, or planned to do serious rock-crawling, they would be high on my list. You are probably going to run a compressor anyway for airing up tires so that is one major part of the equation. And I believe several members here of the XOC are already running ARB lockers. You should find out what their experiences have been as that is the real test.

Whatever you decide, good luck to you. It took me three years to get to lockers on my truck, but it's going to be worth every dime of it and every month that I had to wait.

-P

Most Xterra's (all V6 models) use the H233B 33 spline rear axle, not the C200.

If the front diff is indeed the R180, perhaps there are LSD's designed for 300Z's that could be used in the Xterra.

I could have sworn we had R200 up front...

Brent

Better get a new gear guy. Your current one doesn't know squat about the Xterra.

My ARB installer had no problems installing the front and rear lockers.

Rear locker installed 2/01, front installed 7/01. These are easily the best off-roading mod I have made. They are FANTASTIC in dry conditions; only a slight help in slick conditions - mud, ice, etc where tires are the limiting factor.

The only trouble I have had is with breaking the activating pin on the switch face plates. I carry 2 spares now. If you want lockers today, then ARB is your choice - tomorrow - who knows.

The stock ARB installtion includes a compressor with a small built in tank. This works fine. If you want to power air tools or have a larger air tank, then cost and problems are going to escalate. Warmonger is the authority on this.

If you need an air locker now go with ARB.

Tomorrow Eaton's E-Locers would be the way to go.
They get rid of alot of the problems of the ARB.

The drawbbacks are that they aren't proven and Eaton keeps pushing the relase date back.
6 months ago they said they would come out in spring 2002, then it became fall 2002, last I heard was spring 2003.

Since I wont have the money for a year or two anyway, I'm willing to wait. Till then I'll struggle offroad the way I always have...
with luck.

ARB's are a good unit, but NOT entirely bombproof. The most comon problem i have seen on the trails is line failure. While this isn't a dificult repair, it sure is a major PITA when you need a locked frontend to get out of a situation. Wrangler peple have been breaking the D30 ARB's alot recently, but most of the time with 36'+ tires and lots of skinny pedal. In all likelyhood, you won't have any major trouble with your ARB, but if you do, it will suck. Also, if you ever decide to do a solid axle conversion, your are out a lot of money on the ARB. Jus my $.02, good luck to you

I actually talked to a factory rep from Eaton (he called me)... I guess after a million e-mails clogging up their box, it was worth a call to get rid of me.

The rep said that Spring of 2003 is the current release date for electric lockers for the X. AND they are working with Nissan to offer lockers as a factory option. AND IF that happens, adding Eaton lockers would not void the drive train warranty.

Of course this is all BS, and I deny all knowledge of the conversation, and it was somebody else... and...

Push a button and climb a hill... got to be way cool.

See ya on the trail,
Doc

Bested only by my rig setup. Point truck at hill, climb!

Hopefully Tractech will get on the ball and come up with a Detroit Locker, and a Truetrac for you guys. One of the biggest faults I have with a locked front end is that you can't steer the damn thing. So you had better be pointed where you want to go when you engage the front locker. With the trutrac, you can turn just like you have an open diff, but you're getting 90-95% of the traction of a locker depending on application.

Tractech is also working on a line of electronic lockers but they appear to be further from delivery than Eaton's. Once you wheel locked, you'll never want to wheel open again. And despite claims, drving a Detroit on the street isn't bad at all. I was somewhat concerned but all my fears were unfounded.

-P

The Electrac has been getting nowhere fast, I heard about it over a year ago and even then it was "coming soon" but only for your more common domestic applications. I'm not holding my breath, but I would still love to see it for my X. I imagine the LSD would actually work RESPECTABLY unlike the factory one, and if it's not enough, flick a switch and it locks. Sweet.

Brent

I'm still not sold on the idea of a front locker compared to a good front limited slip. Besides that obvious pain in the ass of not being able to steer with it engaged, it's very hard on the CV joints, power steering, etc.

A good limited slip, like a Torsen gives almost the same traction as a locker, has no switches to fool with, works transparently unlike clutch-pack limited slips, and you can steer with it working. They are usually cheaper than a locker too which is a small added bonus. The only real downside is that it makes the car steer a bit heavier. For some that's a good thing since highway driving is improved a LOT. The car wants to track dead straight all the time.

-P

What’s up Doc

If you’re planning on keep the IFS in the long term I would go with the Fuji made LSD up front that Calmini offers.

After running behind the Calmini Frontier with this LSD up front + stock LSD in the rear at GoneMoab I was impressed how well/tight the front LSD worked much like a spool.

Of course with a front LSD we would be asking you to try all the crazy stuff on the trails first so you could be the guinea for the rest of the “hardcore crowd”

Xtoolbox,

OK, ya now know my secret. I have been hanging out with a bad Jeep crowd... I have locker envy.

You are right that LSD steers and handles well on the front, and that lockers screw up your steering (unless you are going straight), but I have the bug... I want to crawl!!!

The Calmini crawler gear make me break into a sweat, and don't even mention full skid plates...

On the 27th of April the local SD 4 Wheelers are having a trail clean up day in Coral Canyon... Its a cool thing help out with local trail maintenance, and rumor is that there will be more than one X in the group... I wonder who will be going?

See ya on the Mohave Road... off the hook...
Doc

That has not been my experience with an ARB
front locker. I feel almost no resistance going
up hill, quite a bit on downhill hairpin turns.

I've been taken to task privately for only pointing out the good things about an LSD, so to even out the sheet, I will point out some weaknesses:

1. They do not lock 100% like a locker and therefore will not be as effective in extreme situations

2. They are likely not as strong as the best carrier replacement lockers such as the Detroit Locker or ARB. The Tractech truetrac indicates it should not be used with tires taller than 33".

3. If used in the front, it will affect steering by making the truck understeer somewhat.

4. It will place more strain on your steering components than an open diff, although not as much as a full locker.

...I can't think of anything else.

-P

Granted, I know nothing about the X and it's hubs & diff's. Just want to ask if it's possible to swap to manual hubs in the front? Run what locker you want with no in town drawbacks and when trail day shows up, lock them in, then put in 4 when you need it. May be a cheaper way out than the ARB.

Yes they are available. The problem is no one makes a front locker besides ARB.

Hmmm...What if you left the autohubs on and welded the front chunk? What's the worst that could happen?

back to the original question here. so far in all of these posts no one has mentioned the fact that putting only one locker in is usually not the greatest idea when it is installed in the front end. when climbing a hill, most of your weight is being transferred to the back, making it the most effective place for a locker, not to mention the fact that the driveline components are much stronger in the rear. if i were to only run one locker (which i see happening in the near future) i would definately put it in the back. I can attest to the difference that it makes.

my $.02
michael

jquest000, I don't quite agree. Yes when going up hill most of the weight is on the back, but most of us have posi. It's when one tire is in the air the posi fails. It's easier to keep the rear in contact with the ground than the front. True the front isn't as strong. When on flat trails the weight is on the front, with one front tire off the ground the rear has to push the front over the obsticle( like a 2wheeldrive) until both front tires have traction. On a straight axle front end I would agree though.

Welding the spider gears like that is called a Lincoln Locker (for some reason). Maybe Abe invented it on his wagon? Anyway, that and some manual hubs would take care of the front pretty cheap. Kind of hard to reverse when the lockers come out, and expensive to replace.

It is named that because of Lincoln Electric who make welders.

I've also heard of putting lead in the spider gears to fuse them. If it lets go, it will just get chewed up. If one of the welds goes, you're hosed.

Either way, nothing I would mess with,
Brent

Lincoln lockers are very prone to fail. You have to use a certain rod type, and basically retemper the steel to do it correctly. I read an article about it once. Not a bad option for a trail rig, but how many of us only drive our vehicles off road?

Yo Guys...

This must be one of the longest threads on the board. Perhaps I am not the only one with locker envy?

Well I did it... I got the ARB installed in the rear and waiting for the front. Its a time and money thing.

The final decision came down to ALL the good advice I got on the board and ARB's experience with X's.

I know there will be half a dozen choices next year, but ARB has been doing lockers for the X for several years now and most owners seem pretty happy.

I was surprised how quiet the compressor is and how quickly the locker engages and disengages... click, click... that's it...

Again... thanks for all the constructive advice on the board.

See ya at the Owens Valley Salt Works,
Doc

hey Doc.... ok now im excited about Calico on the 18th... I have never seen a locked X... should eb interesting

yeah, your skill as a wheeler should diminish now that you have the locker. I suggest you learn to use it only when you have to, I like the 2 try method, try it twice with an open diff then try with the locker. You don't learn anything if you cheat the first time... I'm not saying having a locker is cheating, but don't just drive up to a hill and say, oh yeah, this is gonna need a locker. Think of it as a last resort, a piece of recovery gear if you will, and try to NOT use it, but revel in the fact that it's there for when you can't get up something.

Do you understand what I mean now by don't let it make you a worse driver?

Try, try again, then flip the switch.

The worst is that guys with stock Xterras will be able to get up stuff that you will need the Locker to get up. Why? because you now have an open diff.... It always sucks to do something cool then have a guy in a stock vehicle walk the dog....

Congrats Doc! I look forward to seeing what your X can do on future runs with SCCX.

Did you have 4Wheel Parts install it?

what, like break steering components?

I understand what you are saying Matt, but I also think you can use the locker to go places the stockers can't. That is the point of improving your vehicle after all. This will be my next purchase after I pay down the credit cards.

only 120 more payments. hey, maybe the earth will all be flat by then, and you won't need em.

Don't look for me to be climbing walls or doing black runs... just yet. I have only had the X since last November and am still in the "learning stage."

Wheeling with jeeps, it was obvious that there was a big difference in locked and unlocked vehicles... the locked jeeps could go slow and pick their way up routes.

Us old guys like to take our time and go slow... Some things are better like that. :p

See ya at Calico on the 18th,
Doc

Doc:

Rear locker = good.

Rear locker + front locker = GREAT.

PS: The ARB install requires you to
engage the rear locker before engaging
the front locker.

It is an easy wiring mod to allow the
front locker to be engaged separately.

See: ARB mod

And I disagree about not using the lockers without trying a route unlocked first.

Yes, using locker(s) is like cheating.
Yes, you 'may' learn a little faster/better not using them.

However the ability to go slow and not tear your rig up by using the locker(s)gets my vote.

And - lockers work better with auto transmissions. Auto + lockers = SLOW.

Let the flame wars begin.....

On second thought, I say ‘phooey’;
if you have lockers – use them.…….

Running without lockers teaches you to
‘put the pedal to the metal’ because that
is the only way you can get up/over some
obstacles.

Using lockers teaches you to think about
taking lines you may not be able to consider
otherwise..

They also let (require?) you drive differently
so you might as well learn from the beginning.

That way you will have less to ‘unlearn’.

Toy Man – ‘adding fuel to the flames.’

Amen! Lockers are no more "cheating" than any mod on your stock rig. I don't know how it could be cheating since this isn't a competition and no one takes score? If they are, so are mud tires, larger tires, lift, airing down etc. I love my locker because it helps be do obstacles slower with less chance of screwing things up mechanically and body-wise. I don't have to air down for traction so much so I keep my clearance to further reduce damage. That's like getting a little more lift. Had a LSD before but the locker does a *much* better job.
I also agree that driver skill should not be substituted with mod's, but get where you are comfortable over all with your skill and your rig setup. At some point, the more mod's you have the fewer trails you will enjoy--they will just get too easy. If you roll over *everything* with no problem or effort, is it still fun? I don't really want a front locker for a long while. The trails I do now are just right with just the rear and still have a challenge. The front too would make them no fun. For now.
Bottom line: It's your rig and your money. Do what makes it more fun to YOU, not what makes me or the other guy enjoy it more--whether that means more mod's or fewer or how you use them.

Enjoy,

you guys are losing my point. You lose skill by relying on the locker. When it does break (it's an ARB, that's when, not if) and you actually have to rely on your skill, you will be SOL, using lines like "Man, I can get up this with a locker, there's no way in hell I can do it without... WINCH!"

Relying on the locker is but a crutch. I have seen people outwheel the most modified rigs with nothing but a 50 yr old Land Rover with open diffs and bald tires and a mastery of what his vehicle can and can't do.

You guys seem to think not using the locker requires bashing the truck into the ground, and that I am afraid, is because you have not learned how to finesse a vehicle without the crutches. You are a perfect example of what I was trying to explain to Doc earlier. The more mods, the lower the trail IQ. A locker does give you traction that will not be gained with an open diff, but if you think of it, it doesn't give you any more clearance. So technically, someone who is masterful at throttle and braking could potentially traverse the same terrain without a locker.

There are a few obstacles that it becomes obvious that a locker is the only way over it (at least for you) and that is when you engage it.

Do you use nitrous to get out of your driveway? No, why not? Because you don't need it.

I would just like to see people get to the point that they can wheel without a spotter.

Get out, spot yourself, get in and drive.

Matt:

I think we have different goals.

It does not bother me if someone
can out drive me.

I just assume everyone can.

I am not interested in becoming a master of 4x4.

I just want to go interesting places with
a minimum of fuss and effort.

Lockers let me do that.

Toy Man - crawling with crutches..

:rolleyes:

Someone on stock tires could say the same of your choice of going to MT's. A talented driver might find better lines that didn't require the more aggressive tread, the greater clearance from your larger tires, and might also get by without the lift. If you aren't to the point that you feel you need the locker, fine. If you are the Mario Andretti of 4 wheeling and don't need any mod's, fine. Belittling others who run mod's you don't have is pointless. Your statement above is ridiculous. At what point do you think a locker is necessary? Not just on both axles, but start with just adding a rear locker. The same could also be said of buying a 4 wheel drive. I've seen some people do amazing things in 2WD, and I've heard them make the same statements that you are making. I certainly don't feel bad about having 4. Do you? They think *you* are a worse driver for giving in to buying a 4WD. No, you don't gain clearance by buying a locker. However, you gain traction through means other than airing down. Don't air down until you need it (or air down less) and don't lose the clearance you would have otherwise if you *had* aired down to begin with. Kind of like the option to turn on and off a locker. Air down when you need to, until then use skill. You may surprise yourself one day by buying a locker. Do you have to justify it to some other guy who thinks it's superfluous? Nope. Just get out and enjoy.

how was I belittling them? I was simply stating that they should not rely on the locker, and let it get to their head, and to get through stuff with as little help as possible. It makes you a better driver. Explain how driving up everything with a locker makes you a better driver? There are skilled people who wheel with all the goodies, there are skilled people who wheel with limited goodies, there are unskilled people who wheel with not many goodies, and there are unskilled people who wheel with all the goodies.

All are OK except the last one. At least to me. If you are in the 3rd group for a long time than I would probably not want to wheel with you. But if you are in the last group and really don't know shit about wheeling, but have a trail rig that could do it all, I would worry. Those are the people who get into situations that they don't know how to get out of.

As Ian said, spot yourself. You learn a lot.

I watch and learn. I teach when I feel I have something to share. The rest of the time I just shut up.

When ARB makes Air Operated Knobbies (AOK), you let me know! That'd be killer!

holy crap! We agree!

I totally hear oyu on using your locker when it's not needed. sometimes it's just cool to do. I guess my point is simply not to rely on it as in, "Hey, this is a hill, time for the locker!" I am much prouder of myself when I can get up something with as little extra help as possible.

So yeah, we do agree.

hoodathunk.

My old Chevy shortbed had a rear locker. Sucker would crawl up anything. I got alot of confidence driving that tank.

The Xterra is a totally different offroad experience. I think it is closer to my truck now with just the rear sway removed, better rear suspension and Muds. But on hard dirt with small loose gravel on an Arizona hill I sure miss my locker. Just enough to get you through the undulation with out digging the hole deeper for the next guy.

If I ever get the cash a locker is going in. Lots more trails I can go on.

Marshall

I'm trying to analyze why Matt's posts
'set me off'.

When I run with non-Xterra 4x4's groups,
the overwhelming response to the lockers is
very positive. There are usually a mix of
totally stock to fairly trick rigs on the runs.

I make no secret to the fact that I am fairly new to 4x4'ing. Even from the the most exhaulted 4x4 guru's I am encourged to use the lockers as learning tools.

"Ok - now try this. You want to go this way and then that way, etc. See - you can do it."

I feel I have learned far more (and faster) by using lockers than by not using them.

So I was taken back when I saw the posts saying 'don't do that'.

I doubt either one of us is going to change his viewpoint. I just wanted to present a different one.

Toy Man

hey, that's cool. I guess I just want to make sure you "keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." :p

Just got back from a trip up north: ghost towning around Bodie, off-road in the Alabama Hills, Death Valley mines, and Mule Canyon near Calico.

Happy, happy, happy... The locker turned red runs into green. It almost seemed like another stage of evolution: an "Unjeep"... all the comfort and reliability of an X and the goat-like characteristics of a Jeep. :p

See ya on the trail,
Doc

Lock the rear and LSD the front. A Detroit Truetrac LSD has no clutches to wear out. An LSD will give better overall performance ( combination of on/off-road ). An LSD will be easier on components in the front end. Remember, lockers are "low side finders". They tend to take you to the low side of your line when off-camber, on slippery surfaces, ect.

The LSD up front will make steering much better off-road than a locker. An LSD with an automatic tranny is a great combination. You can use your left foot braking to engage when a front wheel has left the ground. IMHO

As for the arguement that lockers and traction devices are cheating, here is my take. Learn to drive with open diffs. Install locker/LSD and learn all over again. Now, drive harder obstacles with the combination of skills learned. With lockers/LSD, others will watch while you wheel.

Perhaps you could point us to the vendor selling these for the Xterra? :rolleyes: :p

Pop your eyes back in your head and use those fingers on yourself. The above mention of the Detroit LSD was in reference to an earlier post about gearless LSD. My above comments were a "generalization", if you could not tell. Are you saying "in general" that no one sells lockers for the rear or LSD's for the front? My whole post was my opinion that a LSD front/Locker rear was a great setup. Why don't you read more closely and keep your "tuff guy" smilies to yourself?

Meant in fun dude...ARB available for the rear, and possible 300zx LSD for the front. I agree that it is a good setup. I was more commenting on the lack of choice for the Xterra.

A front LSD is available for the X... Calmini and several folks market it. It is a clutch type, though, but easy on CV joints and hubs... you burn up the clutches before you blow a joint.

ARB also offers a front locker through Automotive Customizers. They take a standard RD27 and do some magic to it.

Thanks for the points on LSDs versus lockers up front. The point about off camber driving problems with lockers is very clearly spelled out in the ARB warnings.

Another point with front lockers is the strain on drive components... the stock automatic hubs will go first, or a CV joint if the X has a lift (extreme angle). A front locker generally means manual hubs with release fuses to deal with the new stress. A blown hub fuse is only $15 and 20 minutes of down time.

This is a great board for kicking ideas around.

See ya,
Doc
(Xtilla, the UnJeep)
http://members.cox.net/xtilla

Who else besides Calmini markets the front LSD for the R200A axle? Seeing how it takes a small amount of additional machining of a C200-application unit to work in the R200A diff and Calmini treats the details as something of a trade secret, I don't think anyone else would be doing so. Then again, AC does the same with the ARB C200 unit...

Brent

AC is also offerring an LSD for the Xterra, whether it acctually fits or not is another matter.

I will change my viewpoint on
using/not using lockers on initial
efforts.

My new answer is to signup for
this course:
4x4 101

Warning: Taking this course will require
you to unlearn how you drive. It can be
brutal to your ego to be told you are doing
it wrong every couple of minutes but
Harold is THE master.

You will also return with with a burning
desire to install ARB lockers and Calmini
transfer case gears.

Toy Man - with a bruised ego but GREATLY improved
4x4 skills.

Told ya...

Bummer man,
Brent

Ya know, on one of my visits to Calmini, we spent a better part of the afternoon complaining about how good help is hard to find. That's not really an excuse, I know, but ask to talk to Steve....he makes things happen (and he will take the time to talk to you!).

Man, for $1000 I'd rather get a locker and spend the next 14 years figuring it out myself! Do you think he spent $1000 to learn what he knows????

It would be the best $1000 you could spend.
Will save you more than that in damage to
your X plus the skills you learn plus the
chance to run the Rubicon. I think he spent
a LOT more than that to learn what he knows.

Toy Man

How much do you think?

Several hundred thousand dollars minimum.

He has been at this since the 80's,
traveled and driven all over the world,
was a finalist for the Camel Trophy
several times, has had a variety of
Mercedes 4x4's and is probably the world's leading authority on Mercedes G-wagons.

An impressive dude.

Toy Man

No doubt!
BUT, are you trying to say that he still doesn't damage parts? Are you trying to say that with this class I won't damage parts?

Finally, in the "art" of wheeling, is it the trip or the destination?

I'm not trying to be the perfect wheeler in one class......what's the challenge? The fun is the development of the skill. I'd still put my $1000 in some hardcore X stuff.

The guys that buy the mega rigs with rockwell 2.5's and 4WS have kinda lost touch with wheelin.......too heavy in equipment. That class, also, seems too heavy in theory etc. Where's the fun?

Not if you've been doing it the correct way all along.

What say we start a fund to pay for Ian's "tuition" and see if Ian is all he thinks he is or not

Brent

Hmmm - well if you take the class, you will
be doing it Harold's way and that way is:

NO clutch or brakes. You start and stop
in gear with the ignition switch. Very
hard habit to break.

No gas. Only the very faintest touch of the
pedal on a steep ledge climb. Harold will
say 'too much' however light you are on the
pedal.

You spend 99 percent of your time at an
idle in 4x4 low, which at a 80:1 crawl
ratio means a pace like a VERY slow walk.
We covered about 15 miles in 3 1/2 days of
driving.

If this sounds radical to you, it will
become clear on the afternoon of the
third day and the morning of the fourth
day when touching the clutch/brake/gas
would mean the possibility of a roll-over
or injury. There are some INTENSE boulder/
ledge climbs near the end of the course.

Toy Man

You will be a LOT less likely to damage parts.

You won't be. The name of the class is
4x4 101 and that is a pretty good description.

You are driving all the time. The theory
gets pointed out as you drive or when you
make mistakes. He does offer a class that
goes into more theory.

The fun is learning how do drive over/around
really tough stuff without damaging you
or the vehicle. It is very instructive to
watch 'experienced' drivers slam their way
over the same rocks you have just idled over
with no problems. At the same time you will
also see a few drivers that just sort of
ooze up/thru the rocks with no problems.
These drivers tend to be older and surprise!
are not using the clutch or gas.

His rigs are OLD, without a lot of fancy
4x4 gear, are on the trail with mainly
novice drivers (like me) 4 days a week
June thru Sept/Oct., have had a lot of
driving in Baja and S. California and
'lived' a tough life in general. He says
he has never broken a Birfield on the Toyota's,
and has never broken a drive shaft, axle or
differential on any of his rigs.

Because the rigs are so old, they do break
various mounts (severe flexing), etc. He
had a frame cross-member break and I broke
a shackle bolt. No problem, welded the
frame cross-member and replaced the shackle
bolt while on the trail.

Toy Man

I agree with D-Rat here...Crawl ratio is everything in the rocks. And Nissan's by default don't have a crawl ratio of anything....

Anybody who has ever seen me drive knows that I go slow. 4low and barely touching teh gas. When climbing a rock ledge, I don't stop at the base, I idle up to it, then just blip the throttle to keep moveing and walk on up. This is with a manual tranny. No clutch until I need to stop or lose traction.

I guess what we're saying is that on a perfectly equipped vehicle, starting and stopping without ever touching the clutch is great, but with our Nisssan's it's not always possible.

I also agree that a lot of offroad drivers need some education on the proper techniques. I'm glad you had fun and enjoyed your class.

Cliff

Sounds like Harold hasn't driven a stock truck in a long time. We have trails steep enough that almost any 4X4 would require brakes to get down them.

Starting and stopping in gear looks cool, and saves wear on the clutch, but serves no purpose unless the vehicle is on an incline. For modern vehicles, it's not even something you can do without a clutch interlock bypass.

Depending on gearing, every vehicle will require a different amount of throttle and RPM to traverse a given obstacle.

It sounds a lot like Harold is teaching people how to drive his trucks, not their own real world vehicles, which have many limitations compared to a rock crawling rig.

I would recommend Bill Burke for your next lesson, you'll learn skills more suited to real world situations.

http://www.bb4wa.com/

I hope too - perhaps next fall.

Toy Man

so... what is the answer to this riddle posed on harold's website:

"why it's sometimes better to use only the front lockers".....can anyone help me out here and give me an idea of when that might be true??
i dont doubt it.. i simply cant think of one.

peace.

I don't recall Harold talking specifically about
this but he did show us how to make a very tight turn around a large rock by activating the front locker just after the front wheels made the turn.
The locked front wheels then 'pulled' the rear around. Having the rear wheels locked would have
resulted in a larger turning radius.

Toy Man

ok.. cool. that makes sense. thanks for thinking about it and putting in your .02!

Sounds good, but according to their site: http://www.torsen.com/oem.htm they don't have one for the X.

It's been six months... how is your rear locker working?