Kona, you are out of your rabid a$$ mind. If I'm in 4wd (hi or low, but low gives me more of a show being that there's more torque) on a gravel road (dead stop) and I mash the throttle (in either my Xterra with the locker off or my Silverado) anyone looking will see 4 "rooster tails" of gravel flying into the air...not two. How is this possible if only two wheels are getting power?
If I'm stuck in mud or a snowbank then sure I only have 2 wheel drive, but you say 4x4s only ever have two wheels turning at a time.
Enough I'm done.

You cant be serious that you beleive that only 2 wheels (1 front and one back) are providing power in 4wd. Im not trying to be mean, but seriously you need to understand how transfer cases and differentials work, and what open diff and locked diff means. You really have it ass about face and I hate for you to look like a fool if you are explaining how 4wd to someone that remotely knows anything about 4wd. Plain and simple, in open diff situations all 4 wheels pull until one tire on one axle loses traction. Lets say its the right rear. An open diff will let the Right rear spin faster essentially robbing the Left rear of all its power. With a locked diff, the axles will spin at the same rate regardless of how much traction either tire has. So you can be open in both axles, locked in both (better) Please please please understand that 4wd on most trucks with a low range transfer case means all 4 tires pull, all wheel drive on the other hand is a completely different animal. it seems that you are getting confused somewhere.

edited out the center lock portion as to not confuse the situation

Wow.. Y'all are really giving him a hard time for what is essentially the truth...

Any open differential is only 1 wheel drive. It's not noticeable until one tire slips, but it is still as true on dry pavement as it is on wet mud.

You're drivetrain is only as good as it's weakest point in time. So if you have 1 tire that slips, and the other one stands still, then unfortunately, you are only 1-wheel drive.

Same goes for 4x4.

It is also true, though, that every 4x4 on the market, ever, was actually only 2WD unless it was sold with a locker.

You wouldn't ever need to lock an axle if both sides received equal power all the time... That's the whole point, because ordinarily, the side with the LEAST traction is the side that receives the power. That's the problem with an open differential.

Understandable, but to say that in a 4wd system there are one tire up front and one in rear pulling is false. In a perfect world where all tires have the same amount of traction (esp on solid rock for ex MOAB) all 4 tires will have the exact same torque applied to them and the ground. I understand what hes trying to say, but hes saying it wrong. If i were a newb and read his post for the first time I would be under the impression that in 4wd I will have only 2 tires driving (one front and the oposite in the rear)... Really... so which front one? and which one in the rear? So what happens if theres ice on the left side of the vehicle and both left tires spin? Misinformation is a bad deal in my book.

edited to add
This is what im talking about misinformation. You are incorrect. While i understand what you are driving at, but the above statement is wrong. 1wd is like a bicycle tire, all the torque goes to it. A 2wd vehicle is always going to be 2wd regardless of whats in the diff. The differential will be driving both tires until a special case is met (ie one tire spins). Granted the special case happens often, 1wd and 2wd are completely different, as is 2wd and 4. Im not trying to be an ass i swear, i know that open diffs are the suck when you spin. But he got some bad information somewhere and im just trying to set him right.

Unfortunately, that is not the case.

A 2WD vehicle leaves 1 tire track on pavement when it does a burnout. Both tires are "spinning", but only 1 is doing the driving; the other is just along for the ride. An open diff only drives 1 axle at a time.

Essentially, it's like this. As soon as the torque from the engine overcomes the traction of the axle, a wheel spins, and the entire engine torque from that point on goes through that spinning axle.

So at the instantaneous second you hit the gas, torque is sent to both axle shafts of the rear axle. As soon as 1 tire looses traction (slips), all the torque goes to that axle shaft, and you don't move. A 4WD open diff rig can shoot 4 roosters in the very special case when they mash the gas & instantaneously lose traction at all four tires at the same time.

But you are powered by as many axle shafts as can work independently, aka, are powered regardless of what the others are doing, aka, locked. 4WD or 2WD is a misnomer, as the axle shafts operation is directly related to what the other one is doing.

You make a good arguement, and when put in context, i understand what you are saying. Keep in mind though that the examples you give are special case, when there is no loss of traction, it truly is 4wd... I would hate to have someone say, "you know 4wd is really 2 or 1 wheel drive when you have open diffs." and not be able to explain why. So yes, in the context that you are using, to be truly 4wd regardless of traction you would need a locker front/rear and a center locking diff to make sure the torque is applied to each axleshaft equally.

And after I wrote it out, I can understand what you're saying, when that if the tires all have equal traction, then it is a true 4WD even w/ open diffs.

What I'm not sure of is when is it perfect enough that they all have exactly the same traction; that rarely happens offroad except for y'all western lucky bastages that get to drive on slickrock. Back east, you can forget about ever having equal traction at all four tires... it just plain will never happen.

This shows a pretty good description of what happens:

Open Diffs

More on Diffs

Hope that helps clear it up.

Actually...its all about tire speed.

The fastest tire gets the torque on an open diff.

If both tires are rotating at the same speed...both are getting power...when one slips, it gets some more torque, and the other one (The one with more traction of course :rolleyes: ....) gets less torque...and if it continues, the fast one gets it ALL.


In 4wd, with open diffs....in a straight line, on terrain with reasonably homogeneous traction...you can get 4 rooster tails as described...4 tires, all pulling for you.

Otherwise, its like a drunken Subaru, it

Tranfers the torque from the wheel that grips, to the wheel that slips.

Well, when you talk Subaru, you are now into a whole new beast entirely. AWD, which is different than 4WD. AWD has an added center differential or viscous coupling to also deal with the differnce in rotation front to rear. Which is why you can't drive your truck in 4WD on dry, had pavement.

Too True.



I just liked the juxtoposition of the Subaru Ads where they say

"Transfers grip from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip" or something like that...to the open diff's opposite approach.

Hello, Each brand vehicles have there own transfer cases and systems. If you have all four tires turning..at the same time...you will get bindings.

In a turn the inside tire will turn less and the outside tire has to traval longer.

The best thing is to go to a 4wd drive shop and have them explain it to you. As they say..ASK THE EXPERTS ....Kona Hawaii has been wrong before and I would like to be corrected!

So Please go to professional that knows all about 4 wheel drives and how they work.

Than tell US...how wrong we were? Never put a spool Locker on a street driven 4x4! ...the utimate in tractions.

Oh one more place to ask...those companies that sell lockers and limited slip units...ask them how your 4x4 unit work...NOT all is the same way...

PS: I want to be corrected....!!! It is OK to bash me after that! HELP GUYS? ....Aloha

What it seems to be? ...may not seem to be? One more thing...ALL our rooster over here have tails too! Ever had shoyu chicken?

Not really sure what you are getting at.

True, but that's why the differntial was invented. Not all four wheels are turning at the same speed. A differential does not work as both or one or the other, it allows for speed differences. It only seems that way when one wheel is on ice or in the air.

Did you check out the links on my above post? They really do demonstrate the system well.

Kona - go to the links Dagger posted above...they are giving you the info you want.

BTW - its scary...but, the average 4wd shop guy sometimes has no freekin clue how things work...I've seen too many examples...

Same with tire shops....hoo boy, some scary info there too.

Of course, there are GOOD people at SOME shops, etc...so those of us who ARE, or who have FOUND, these good shop/people...God Bless!