Hey guys, I was looking at the X for a while now and finally found a great deal on an 2006 SE that would be dumb for me to turn down. I used to take my parent's Land Rover Discovery (Series 1) off-roading all those years ago. I'm curious if I would be able to take the X-SE with its 4WD, V6, and AT offroading at all? I could purchase the aftermarket rear differential locker I suppose but, what else is really a necessity for off-roading? And how much does it seem I would NEED to put into it in order to even start going off-road?

I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thanks.

In my opinion if you are going to put on a locker anyway you might as well get the offroad unless you are saving big time cash? An SE would be fine to do offroading with however.

The SE will wheel with the best of them. Rear locker is very nice, but it's not the end of the wheeling world without it. Get the SE, toss on some Shrockwork sliders and some new tires and go have fun.

The one problem with the SE is that it's got 17" wheels which tires are more expensive for.

Thanks for the help! I actually am saving a lot of money on the SE. They don't even have an offroad. With the money I'm saving though I was thinking I could put some back into the SE to make it comprable to the offroad. As long as taking the SE wheeling doesn't mean I'm bringing a knife to a gun fight I'm happy.

The OR only has a few things that the SE doesn't have.

*Stiffer Bilstein shocks - this only changes the handling slightly. You can get new 20% stiffer Bilstein for the rear for $120.

*Rear Locker - Currently there are no aftermarket lockers for the new X. But the ABLS does a decent job and the SE has that.

*Hill Decent (only with Auto) - I have only used this one and it wasn't because I had to, I just wanted to see what it was like. Nice feature, not needed.

*Hill Assent (only with Auto) - This is something that is kind of neat and you don't turn it on or off. If you are on a steep hill and apply the break and come to a complete stop the breaks will hold a couple of seconds after you left off the pedal so you do not drift. Again, neat, but not needed.

*Rugged Trail tires - Not the greatest tires, but they are a bit better off road than the Long Trail.

*16x7 (6 spoke wheels) - The SE has 17x7.5 (4 spoke wheels)

*More durable seat fabric - The fabric on the OR model is harder and rougher than that of the X, S or SE. It's also more durable.

Think those are all the differences. I think most you can live without or replace on the SE to be just as good or better than what comes with the OR.

I have an OR.

The locker is handy only when going over the worst of what your truck can safely handle. For the other 99.9% of the time, a standard Xterra is more than sufficient.

I don't know how much the ABLS does for you - but in the gen 1 Xterras a rear air locker makes a WORLD of difference. I'd hold out for the OR.

Neat? Maybe for amputees that don't have one foot for each pedal...

So much support! I'm impressed. So from what I gather the only things I should really replace right now are the shocks, the tires/wheels, and maybe a few more durable aftermarket seat covers? Wow thanks for the help! Hopefully everything will pan out nicely. I can't wait to get out there.

Yeah, I agree. I'd like to see that feature on a manual instead.

I simply left foot brake with my auto - much better control and faster rection.

Problem is, there is few to no aftermarket wheels available. BW Wheels makes the Gunner6 which is supposed to fit, but that's about your only option without going with spacers.

The OR edition is what a grand more than the s or se? I say save your money and wait for aussie or someone to make a rear locker for 275 and. OR doesnt have anything special besides a locker really. Skids are crap and people replace em, the blistiens so what those are gone after you lift it. Get an S and wait for a locker and save yourself a bunch of cash.

Coming from the POS, limited slip on the '03 SE/SC, the OR locker is very cool. I'm happy with it.

Other things that it does are cool too and debateable on whether they're needed, but it is nice to be pointing at the sky and be able to let up on the brake without rolling. Hill decent is a little too much for most situations, but it does make sure you don't go too fast for the conditions.

Well the problem is, and ARB locker is $750 + compressor and then installation. So you are looking at probably $1200 just for a rear locker in the future.

I didn't mean to make light of the rear locker on the OR. When you're locked and loaded, the OR kicks ass all over the S/SE. Period.

I meant to imply that a lot (but not all) people who own an Xterra may never find themselves in a situation where they'll need a locking rear end.

doesn't the SE automatically come with the smaller rear axle? that's not good and I don't see a locker coming out for it anytime soon. not to mention that you'debe polishing a turd with even more money.

the bigger nissan-dana 44 rear axle is only available in one of two ways:
1) OffRoad edition with either auto or stick
2) any base or S model with a stick shift trans(no locker)

the SE is auto only. I gave up the leather wrapped steering wheel and 17's for the OR model. the gearing is lower on the OR as well.

Its true the thing about the Dana 44 on the OR. I have one (OR) and I wouldn't change it for an SE and $2000. I'm pretty sure your dealer (or any other one near by) can match the price you'r looking at.

Anyway both are EXCELENT choices and you'll be very happy with whatever you get.

this really depends on what you need and consider "better". If you are going to do a lot of offroading...the OR is the better X no doubt. If you spend more time on the pavement, the SE is no doubt better IMO. There were enough little additions (17 wheels, more pavement oriented tires, leather steering wheel cover, RF stereo, silver trim on gauges, steering wheel stereo controls, side steps, trip computer, etc) on the SE that made it an easy choice for me over the OR. Mine aint no mallcrawler, but i dont kid myself thinking ill be crawling over 10ft boulders in Moab either.

The choice is yours based on your priorities. Cant go wrong.

edit: sp

There were enough little additions (17 wheels, more pavement oriented tires, leather steering wheel cover, RF stereo, silver trim on gauges, steering wheel stereo controls, side steps, trip computer, etc) on the SE that made it an easy choice for me over the OR. Mine aint no mallcrawler, but i dont kid myself thinking ill be crawling over 10ft boulders in Moab either.

edit: sp[/QB][/QUOTE]

The Or also comes with the same RF stereo. In my opinion there is a reason the SE are being sold at good deals and the OR are hard to find?

Only in Canada does the OR come standard with the RF stereo. In the US it's a $1500 option.

Each region has different demographics and needs, there are no OR's at my dealer, and I asked why...he said because they had to trade away the last 4 they had (similar story to the OR pathfinder), they do not sell well here. This forum is probably more of the enthusiast crowd, and favors the OR for its offroad capabilities...that is not what the majority of X buyers ultimately want...despite the "extreme" advertising. Interestingly enough, i think if i read this forum as much as I have now, before buying my SE, i would have seriously considered the OR They are both that good, but for differernt strokes.

anyways, the car is yours, choose for yourself what you want. go out and do it.

The thing is - nobody pictures themselves doing that at first... and then there you are in Moab or Colorado or Arizona wishing you had a locker.

It's like when I was buying mine and was debating whether to spend the extra money on a 4x4... my GF said "Hey, is there a chance that you'll be sorry later that you didn't get it? yeah? well then GET IT".

do all OR models come with a rear locker?

Yep

no, the 2WD doesn't come with a locker, unlike the Nismo frontier, which does have a locker in 2wd flavor.

how is it an offroad model then? um...because nissan said so!

even if you don't off road, i'd want the larger rear axle for towing. you could even put the titan aluminum diff cover with the cooling fins on it plus it adds oil capacity as well.

drivetrain options > leather steering wheel

It's actually a $900 (US) option and I paid nearly half that for it after negotiations.

My mistake. I have a hard enough time comprehending a 2 wheel drive Xterra.

A 2 wheel drive Offroad version makes no sense to me.

just my two cents is that the OR version looks a lot better just for the mere fact that the wheels are really cool. dont really care much for the other ones same view on the Frontier.

Tim

i know..it bewilders me too

Yeah, that's one of the most idiotic automotive industry oxymorons ever. On par with Chevy's 4 cyl, fwd, "SS".

When I was shopping for my X, I told one salesman that I was leaning toward an OR model. He proudly proclaimed, "Oh, we have a 2WD in red." After a second of pure shock I just started laughing. WTF? What marketing turd at Nissan thought a 2WD OR was a good idea??

the same dumbasses that made toyota money selling 2wd "prerunners" with 31 inch tires and the 4x4 suspension stance for $2500 less than the 4x4 counterpart.

I know it's for the "posers" out there. Still seems ridiculous though. I mean, if someone's that big of a wannabee, then why don't they go order a couple plastic "Off Road" badges and put them on an X model?

I havent been very impressed with my SE in offroad situations so far. Maybe a locker in the rear would change all that. My X has found a roll in the family as sort of a soccer mom grocery getter.... with added insurance in case it snows. It will also tow the boat and is my backup when the powerstroke has a headache.

It doesnt seem to do anything extreemly well...but it does everything well. My only real complaint has been from the advertised fuel mileage..... 18-21 yea right. Ive hit 18 once and that was all freeway.

I got your 2wd Off-road right here

For all you 2wd guys worried about northern winters, here's your solution. Much cheaper and easier than a 4x4 conversion!

Jonlc

Check your pm's.

The Or also comes with the same RF stereo. In my opinion there is a reason the SE are being sold at good deals and the OR are hard to find?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Tell me about hard to find on the OR trim. I wanted one and no one had any in stock except in 2wd trim which I didn't want. I think Nissan should have held them for us kind of people and not be available to every damn other person that has no idea on what a locker does nor that it's a 4wd model. If they wanted an OR edition get the damn 2wd model and leave that to us kind of people. I saw one guy with one the other day and asked him if he takes it wheelin. He looked at me and said no. I asked if it was 4wd and he said yup. I was like so if you don't wheel it then why get it? He said it looked cool. I was like have you tried the locker? He was like this thing has a locker? Cool. What is it and what does it do? I got pissed at him and walked away. It's people like that that annoy the crap out of me because one dumbass guy bought it because it "looked cool" and it will never be used for what Nisan intended it to be. F**kers! All of them.

C'mon Dan, just take off all your cool bits and buy an '06 OR. you'll need to scrounge up that matching alloy spare though.

I feel for ya, Dan. The OR version can be a hard item to find. I wanted on with a maunul transmission but it was next to impossible to find. I found an OR in the color I wanted but it came with an auto trans. Meh! So auto trans it is.

The good thing about those idiots who yank the OR's off the lots without knowing how great an off-roading vehicle that is, they're gonna be selling them soon. That's gonna be great for the 1st gen guys looking to "upgrade" their X's.

One other thing, Dan...

Lockers for the 2nd generation X's will be available soon. They will be expensive but well worth it. Of course, you won't have the Dana 44 (variant) that's on the OR version but I wouldn't get too hung up on that issue.

Patience young grasshopper...

Just to clear up a misconception...

The D44 is NOT a stronger axle than the std rear axle on the X.

Its weaker.

It IS stronger than the D44 on the Jeeps, but the changes made hybridized the Nissan D44 so that NO jeep D44 mods work for it now.



The std Nissan rear end is plenty strong, more like a Ford 9" than a D44, including the drop out center, etc.

The odds are Good that Aussie's, etc...may come out with a locker for the Nissan rear...in a few years.

If you want to be sure though, the OR is the only locker option right now other than ARB.

So - If the only issue was axle strength, the above posts have it backwards - the D44 is the weaker axle, but it can come with a locker, saving thousands of dollars in retro-fitting....and, the D44 is still a strong axle, so the loss in strength is not as critical.

I'm not to worried about it. I've got that parts list for to do the SAS and will be going the same route as Koko did on his. I'll be doing the same thing as he did since this will allow you to go to 15's and you can also get lockers on it for a lot cheaper then going the ARB route. The thing is that whenever ARB gets one done for the rear it's going to take a long time to get something for the front since there is currently nothing in existance for the front diffs.

i've asked this before...but why is the c200 stronger than the d44? i know the prev-gen Xterra rear axle is stronger, but i thought the c200 was mostly used for 4 cylinders in previous years.

I know the previous poster was confused about the subject at hand...'05 and newer Xterras. We know the one piece housing japaneses axles are strong, but the D44 comparison was to the base 2005 xterra rear axle, which is a good bit smaller.

Ok, I'm getting confused too. SO as I understand it, from strongest to weakest:

1st gen axle
2nd gen regular axle
2nd gen D44 axle
Jeep D44 axle

Is this correct?

No...why would the special offroad package axle that is only on the OR and the manual trannies be the weakest on your list. It is bigger than the 200 mm one on the SE.

the nissan-ized hybrid D44 is also fullsize truck axle tube thickness and 32 splines vs 30 splines and a thin dana 30 axle tube thickness on the d44 jeep units. the ring gear size is still smaller than the earlier nissan minitruck axles though and the one piece housing with the dropout carrier is always a plus (like a ford 9 inch except metric).

the list would be more like

old nissan rear
titan/OR Xterra D44
dana 44 jeep
200 mm nissan base rear axle new fronty/X

okay, that clears it up for me. thanks.

was confusing me...since an axle for an older model can no longer be called a 'standard' axle, but simply an older one, so i thought he was talking about the C200, not the previous gen axle.

Ok, now I'm clear. That quote confused me big time as well.

Good to know I have the best

Bottom line is I seriously doubt you'll ever take an OR anywhere the SE couldn't go.

The ABLS works VERY well in my limited experience. Climbing up steep sand dunes, the slip light flashes - the brakes pulse on the slipping wheel(s), and I never lose momentum. The system works as advertised.

Unless you plan on doing true rock crawling, the locker is a "nice to have", but not a must when you already have ABLS.

FWIW, finding any 4WD Xterra is an issue now in Central FL. They do have an OR locally, but it is the silly 2WD version. I guess I was lucky to get my 4WD SE when I did.

The stiffer shocks do nothing for me. I drive s-l-o-w offroad. It prevents tearing up my vehicle, and my body!

As usual, YMMV.

You might not ever take it some place a stock SE couldn't go, but I for one plan on it. ABLS is nice, but not perfect. Though I have never gotten stuck, there are hills and such that I would not have made it up if not for the locker.

How well does the ABLS perform in continuous application?

I remember the hearing about an H2 that cooked its brake pads going uphill at moab. wtf? bad design.

If the breaks get too hot ABLS turns off.

how does it know if the brakes are hot? i'd imagine an algorithm or even analog charging circuit that times the rotor heat dissapation constant vs. the total activated time over some time period to decide when to disable it. and brakes were designed to be able run pretty damn hot anyhow. I was trolling over at the FJC forums and this same logic seems to be there as well.

to answer another question back a couple of posts, the ABLS works pretty well, but the locker with abls front was VERY noticibly better on a tough climb.

All this is making my brain hurt. Personally I purchased the OR because it was in my budget. Didn't even consider an SE, but was expecting to purchase an S model at the dealer. Then he made me a nice offer on a OR MT. The rest is history.

Bottom line is I am happy and I am happy for the locker. No reason to purchase an OR if you plan to mall crawl.

I don't know how it does it.

From the Owners Manual;
---
ABLS is a form of traction control using
sensors from the Anti-lock Brake System
(ABS) to transfer power from a slipping drive
wheel to a wheel with more traction. The
ABLS system applies braking to the slipping
wheel, which helps redirect power to another
wheel.

On 4WD models the ABLS system operates
in both 4H and 4LO modes. On 2WD vehicles,
the ABLS system operates on the
drive axle only.

The ABLS system is always ON unless the
system detects brake pad overheating. If
high brake pad temperature is detected, it
will turn OFF, but normal brake function will
continue. ABLS will function even when the
VDC system (if so equipped) is turned OFF.
---

Uh, that's a pretty obvious thing to say, almost make their engineers look stupid.

Wonder if it says: On 2wd vehicles, only 2 wheels are driven.

Being new to this... can anyone point me to any good web reference (or otherwise) on these axles. I really don't understand what a D44 is and why is it different on a jeep and an XTerra. And where can I find info about the axle on the standard new gen X?

I am pretty sure there are a lot of lurkers interested in this as well.

a dana 44 is a light fullsize truck axle usually used in front axles on 4x4's. the newer style jeep ones use the smaller size outer axle tubes and a shortened width, but the center section on axle size is still the same.

the titan/xterra rear D44 uses the proper thick fullsize truck outer axle tubes and a little bit higher spline count axles for strength. the titans have had trouble towing with these and the newest ones have had differential improvements. It's a good sized axle for an SUV, but questionable for a 1/2 ton truck that tows. even the chevy 10 bolt is a little larger and those go out if you tow too much as well. the titan one looks to be improved internally which is good, but it would be better to use something else.

the dana 44 is a good sized jeep axle and parts are abundant. the xterra one reminds me of fullsized wagoneer or dodge front axles on old 4x4's. I wish they would put one on the front of the X..that would be the modern fullsize wagoneer for sure.

Now you can. Just get the 78-79 Broncho and use the axles. We now know that's the donor for us because that's the one that Koko used on his rig for the SAS.

Having watched a German SUV with their version of ABLS rockcrawling (tires in the air), I'm not going to sell ABLS short. Not sure if Nissan's version works as well as that, but it certainly has the potential.

Since you didn't get stuck, how do ya know an ABLS equipped X wouldn't have made it too?

Bronterra? Xtoncho? :p

Because I had to lock it. Without the locker I wouldn't have made it. Now with better tires at the time I might have.

ABLS is not as good as a locker, period.

It's not that I don't like ABLS (I do) and I adore the street ride of the IFS, but the front diff is so puny.

If Nissan could have kept the same lug pattern, we could be rolling on titan hubs and IFS diffs with maybe shorter X specific half shafts.

this argument aside.. the bronco D44 on coils might be the way to go if you can't afford to keep replacing busted parts up front. Just too bad you can't get it that way from the factory.

Thanks - I gained some knowledge there for sure.
I still cannot find anything about the modern axle on the '06 S/SE versions.

I think it is 200mm which is a 7.67" ring gear. this is about equivalent to the camaro and s-10 7&5/8" rear axle from the 90's.

someone verify the 200mm part. I think that is about the size of it. kind of like a dana 35 size more or less.

the c200 is the 200mm one, not sure what size the d44 is

Thanks for those answers.
I understand now that the old axle is not a c200 and is larger than the dana44 in the offroad.

The dana44 in the 05 offroad is larger than a jeep dana44? (which does not make as much sense to me since they are called the same thing)

and the new 05 c200 has a ring gear that is about 1" smaller than the dana44, and a shaft that is also smaller though I don't know by how much.

Assuming that my understanding of the above is correct???

What about accounting for matterial differences. They do claim that the steel they use for the frame is at least stronger than the old frame. Is the same true for the axles?

Have there been any studies done on how much force it takes to snap any of these axles?

I've got to say you guys have been helpful to this newbie.

there are yield torque specs and shock load ratings for axle shafts published somewhere. The more splines you have, the less deep they are cut making the axle cross section thicker. many axles snap at the end of the splines, not in the middle, for instance. I don't have a good link right now. the dana 44 ring gear diameter is 8.5" (about 216mm). the jeep one is exactly the same, but the titan diff now has an extra heavy double spider gear arrangement and a diff cover that holds more oil due to towing failures. the nissan version has a higher spline count than the standard classic 30 spline count on dana 44 axleshafts. So, in summary, the bearings and dimensional measurements are the same, but the nissan one has been ruggedized with 32 spline axles and the titan special diff arrangement. also, as I mentioned b4, the X/ titan get a full size truck axle tube thickness and brake flange whereas the jeep ones are dana 30 sized axle tubes pressed onto a dana 44 pumpkin. narrower and lighter duty (the same inner axles dia - but 30 spl, but the outer tubes are lighter duty).

so the axles aren't snapping on titans, but it was more of a heat treating problem with the diff gear set internals and that was adressed for 2006 it would seem. Now the 6 cyl fontys and X's don't weigh as much and don't tow as much so you don't hear anything rampant about 6 cyl D44 axle failures. An updated titan axle might make a kick ass upgrade for a 200mm base x axle assumming the abs is compatible. even then, X axles should fit in the titan housing unless the width is more on the titan. the d44 is a good X axle, but sucks for the titan. They ought to bring back the japanese one, but I know that they won't because it costs $50 more. the good thing is every napa in the country has axle seals and bearings for dana axles for cheap.

The odd thing is, when you read the 2005 Dana press release they state that the X will be using a standard Dana 44 diff. Seeing as it's not standard, I find it odd.

well yes, the casting is also beefier than th classic casting as well.. forgot about that. It could be a reference to the extra heavy titan variation whereas the x and fronty one is the "standard" regular duty nissanized one.

for all we know this axle kicks ass on paper. I don't know how much stronger the early x axles are, but the only thing that bugs me is the special lug pattern on the new axles and wheels.

another thought is that the smaller drivetrain on the next gen X has less rolling resistance and overall weight to help keep the epa rating from dropping a mpg for the fleet average and all that.