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#533397 - 22/05/07 01:25 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's normal.

This is the reason why people should change their gear oil around 30K miles. Most think that they can just forget about because most of the public doesn't talk about it, but just like any other metal on metal parts, you are going to have a break-in period.

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#533398 - 24/05/07 02:32 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just got a used 2005 4WD S model it sounds like all the 2nd Gen's are having this problem but I was wondering is this happing more on models with the locker and models with the 2 spider gears I read this entire post and that is kind of what I have gathered. This post is sad I wanted a second Gen 4WD so bad now all I can say is f@*k. Is there a way to know from the VIN number if you have the 2 or 4 spider gears.
I guess on a good note I do not off-road all that hard mostly fireroads some mud here and there. I know this does not save me but i am looking for some light here.

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#533399 - 24/05/07 06:54 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
fastdrmr Offline
Member

Registered: 29/11/01
Posts: 1697
Loc: SLC, UT
SLMH - if it makes you feel better I have wheeled my X pretty decently and I believe due to its very early production date it has the 2 spider. No problems here. (yet)

Enjoy it and realize that if it does go out there will be replacement parts.

What we are seeing is under extreme conditions it becomes the weak point, as are U-joints in straight axles and CV joints in IFS.
_________________________
KE7AEY
Those damn voices in my head... gotta get DIRT!

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#533400 - 24/05/07 08:58 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


The racer was one of the earliest 2005 models and it had a 4 spider original equipment. So I don't know about the production date being the deciding factor. It may be a model difference. Mine was an OR 4wd 6spd.

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#533401 - 26/05/07 05:11 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
it sounds like all the 2nd Gen's are having this problem
Not mine. I've been out six times in the last six months with my '06 Off Road model with locker. I do understand the difference between the skinny pedal and the fat one and tend to be adverse from spinning my tires wildly. More so that others. I do follow the instructions on the use of the rear locker and pop it on and off as required to get though a difficult 25-50 worth of trail.

I still have the stock tires for the time being and have always had a concern for the additional spinning mass a larger/heavier tire imparts. Newton wrote laws, not suggestions. I'm looking for an after market tire as close in weight to our stock ones.

Tread lightly. laugh

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#533402 - 27/05/07 10:23 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well...

Foot...meet mouth...

I blew my front diff again yesterday...and get this...in 2wd and on the street!

So...guess it's going to go in and see what they say.

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#533403 - 27/05/07 03:43 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok, that confirms my street theory. Nissan? TIME TO STEP UP! RECALL NOW!

Sorry you have to put foot in mouth Muzikman, but I think most of us have gone through denial over this situation, it is just too unbelievable.

On a Montero with 35s you avoid full throttle action ONLY when the tires are turned hard over, and you will NEVER break a CV. Violate that rule(and somtimes you have little choice) and blammo.

BUT, that is a far cry from exploding spider gears with stock or 1" over tires and little wheel spin, or ON THE FREAKIN STREET! eek

Thats official then, no matter how long it takes the legal system to get Nissan to cough up my first diff these vehicles must not be taken off-road until upgrades are ready, or risk getting stranded.

I fired up the old 250,000 mile Montero today and plan to to get it workable for a few trips atleast until I can see if Xterra Racers solutions will be out soon, and viable or whether detail and trade in is the way to go.

It is amazing how fast a car company can creat enthusiasm and sales, then crush it due to a few failures......

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#533404 - 27/05/07 05:45 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Lloyd Swartz:
Ok, that confirms my street theory. Nissan? TIME TO STEP UP! RECALL NOW!

Sorry you have to put foot in mouth Muzikman, but I think most of us have gone through denial over this situation, it is just too unbelievable.

On a Montero with 35s you avoid full throttle action ONLY when the tires are turned hard over, and you will NEVER break a CV. Violate that rule(and somtimes you have little choice) and blammo.

BUT, that is a far cry from exploding spider gears with stock or 1" over tires and little wheel spin, or ON THE FREAKIN STREET! eek

Thats official then, no matter how long it takes the legal system to get Nissan to cough up my first diff these vehicles must not be taken off-road until upgrades are ready, or risk getting stranded.

I fired up the old 250,000 mile Montero today and plan to to get it workable for a few trips atleast until I can see if Xterra Racers solutions will be out soon, and viable or whether detail and trade in is the way to go.

It is amazing how fast a car company can creat enthusiasm and sales, then crush it due to a few failures......
Ya know, Lloyd, I was just at GONE Moab and, unless I'm mistaken, only one, that's right Lloyd, ONE, 2nd gen Xterra/Fronty had an issue with an exploding diff and that was because he didn't listen to his spotter. There also wasn't one single '05+ last year that had a diff explode. If it's such a HUGE problem why didn't more of these instances take place in one of the most likely places in the world?

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#533405 - 27/05/07 06:26 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually most Moab trails are really easy. It is rare to see breakage in Moab. Just the nature of the terrain, very friendly.

One instance sounds not too bad. But how many total Gen IIs were there? Was it stock tires?
Just curious.

The problem is serious enough that I KNEW there would be a diff failure in Moab. Admitedly I expected 2-3.

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#533406 - 27/05/07 08:28 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dear God, Llyod. It's not the difficulty of the trail, it's the composition of the slick rock. Grippy surface meets spinning tire mass should = lots of breakage according to you. There were quite a few 2nd gen's there (I don't have a total for you) and this was a front the blew up not a rear. But by your logic, every single 2nd gen with anything over stock size tire should have had a rear diff failure on the WAY to Moab and if they were lucky enough to get there unscathed then they surely should have failed simply because there is better traction on slickrock than most metropolitan roads.

I agree that the front diff was designed poorly, as for the rear I don't agree with you at all. I would not be shocked to find out that Nissan received a bad batch of one of the components of the rear end.

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#533407 - 28/05/07 02:17 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chef, problem is, Xterra found the problem with the M226 w/ e-locker rears...the side gear (I think he said on the passenger side) is very thin to make room for the locker. This seems to be what is failing in the rear diffs on the OR model.

This is my 2nd front diff (replaced the last one almost exactly a year ago).

There is obviously something wrong here and unless Nissan is going to keep replacing the diffs for us, we need a solution. I really hope what Xterra Racer is working on does the trick.

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#533408 - 28/05/07 08:29 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


I get it, Muzikman, I do. Honestly, what percentage of M226 rear ends have had an issue? You have a high concentration of owners that like to off-road their vehicles on this site. Off-roading tends to break things, or make them wear out faster. Now, while I agree that Nissan needs to do something, a recall might be a bit extreme. I have a feeling that the reason Lloyd didn't get what he wanted from Nissan had a lot to do with his attitude at every step of the process.
I have faith that Xterra Racer's new gear coming down the pike will solve the issues you're having, but things like this take some time to get resolved.

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#533409 - 28/05/07 09:13 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Scott Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/00
Posts: 290
Loc: Fort Collins, Colorado
I was on the hell's revenge run with the Nissan contingent which included the X with the Titan V8, and a stock 2008 Xterra (same as current models). They certainly didn't baby them. I was surprised the 2008 didn't break something on rubble trouble - the engineer "drove it like he stole it". Massive wheel spin while bouncing over ledges. I would never drive my own vehicle as hard as the 2008 was driven. I was actually fairly impressed with the durability. They also abused an Armada pretty heavily and it held up great.

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#533410 - 28/05/07 10:33 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Once.

Now let's see him do that every other weekend for a year and see how it holds up.

My problem is, without a current aftermarket, something that should only cost me a couple hundred to fix is going to cost thousands. I live by the you have to pay to play, but when paying costs $2500 a year in just diff replacements, I am not going to be able to wheel much longer.

As for the rear, I have not had a problem with it yet...knock on wood, but this is my 2nd front diff.

Good news is, MAD offroad in OH is working on a drop in D44 for the front diff...now we just need gears for the rear (Nissan uses some off the wall gearing).

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#533411 - 28/05/07 03:30 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, have him do it every weekend. My story....

I purchased my Xterra early on, in May 05. Did my first Gone. While the slickrock is sticky, spinning tires is rare, or limited. I have seen people whip vehicles to death on ledges beyond there capability in Moab, but as an older, more conservative 4x4 veteran, I dont on easy, sticky Moab trails. The truck bottoms out so bad I am greatly concerned about other construction, and I see some terrifying wear on older Xterras, including week front clips, suspension and engine mounts. But have nothing to worry about yet.

Feb 06, I do a trip to Baja. By now reports of mostly blown front diffs are starting to come in. The trip trashes stuff on the truck and much of my camping gear due to the bottoming out design flaw. I park the truck until it can be fixed when I get home. I also get 5 flats with the stock Flat Trail T/As. BUT, I run alot of hard Baja trails, including Mission Impossible, consisting of boulders and ledges, very steep with decomposing granite. Feel like an idiot without a winch or another vehicle. ELSP continues to impress me. AFter that how the heck are guys blowing diffs???

April 07, diffs front and rear are blowing like crazy. I stop my build up and go 33s instead of 35s. Again, I wheel Utah fairly hard, as Utah goes. No problems, but the net has me scared now so I am MANY times more gental on the gas then my old rig. I run two short trips to evaluate 4x4 trails for the Trail management process FS, and drive ULTRA conservative.

May 07, A SERIOUS problem is clear now and I am planning to go to Gone but cancel more difficult trips until fixes come out. Why risk a new truck? I go out to another area to GPS trails for the FS when I break on a moderate incline. I have done it now...or have I? Almost no gas, limited wheel spin..couldnt be! Yep, and it is the rear. Now here I sit. Nissan says it was taken off-road and they were not meant to be taken off-road!( I know, it was a stupid lackey, but he is all I could talk to)

The point of all this is, it becomes a matter of imperical IMPRESSION. I have not seen this as a big problem, so what the heck are those guys doing? Then BLANG! I also think it may be the gears weaken with repeated trips, and many dont wheel the trucks new. Whatever, the design flaws are being understood. We need to fix them, and Nissan needs a solid position on the huge warranty expense ahead that wont expire until 60K and 5 years. Thats 2009-2010 for the 05s alone! And all years have the defective front!

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#533412 - 28/05/07 04:25 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Muzikman:
There is obviously something wrong here and unless Nissan is going to keep replacing the diffs for us, we need a solution. I really hope what Xterra Racer is working on does the trick.
Everyones warranty will run out eventually, then they'll make a bunch of money from the deal every time they replace one frown

I don't expect we will see a recall, after all - it doesn't pose a big safety threat, which is about the only reason they would recall.

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#533413 - 28/05/07 07:28 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh, I don't see a recall either.

UPDATE:

After actually getting some time to look at it (this weekend has been a bad one all around), it's not the front diff, but the rear that is blown...so this fits even better into this thread. I have an early build (March 05) OR model. I have just over 41K miles on it and wheel all the time. The front blew last April and now the rear.

What bums be out is that the thing is undrivable now. I was hoping it was the front so I could pull the half shafts and still drive it around on the street until I got the Jeep inspected and back on the road. So now, the next couple days are going to be a marathon finishing the Jeep, getting it inspected just so I have something to drive back and forth to work in.

My guess, they are not going to cover this as I am pretty heavily modified, 33" tires and the rear shock and swaybar brackets (yes the swaybar is removed) are all beat up. So they are probably going to call it abused.

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#533414 - 29/05/07 06:27 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


They should have my attorneys letter by now, I will let you know what happens. You describe my exact problem. Problem is, they are marketed as an off-road vehicle, and even have said logos on the side. There is nothing in the owners manual about not wheeling either, or what is abuse. Nor the warranty. And we can prove this is a engineering design flaw. They will have a tough arguement....

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#533415 - 29/05/07 04:58 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
BurgPath Offline
Member

Registered: 25/05/02
Posts: 2146
Loc: Knoxville, Tn
Good luck Lloyd, hope it works out for you.
_________________________
Kevin
- 2008.5 Titan SE 4x4
Burgy --- Nissan Offroad Association of the Southeast

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#533416 - 29/05/07 07:43 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well I went to Moab, and witnessed the blown front diff incident... It was a little too much skinny peadal (whell spin), in conjunction with slick rock === BOOM!

Anyway, there were four new gen X's (I was one of them) and one new gen fronty (that I wheeled with). I dont think i saw the 08 xterra (that would make five x's). So a total of Five or Six weak front ends, and only one blown. that I guess Should sound bad... but I was expecting worse! I babied mine alot. But now with 35's im really goning to have to watch what I do.

Anyhoooo, I cant wait for a new solution to be presented, whether it be from a recall, or from an aftermarket supplier. Good luck to everyone and I hope I dont join that special club of broken diffs.

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#533417 - 31/05/07 09:19 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've been reading the other site forums on this topic.
I want you all to understand what parts I am working on for our problems.

I am currently developing a solid billet steel spool for the M226 rear end. This will accept the stock 32 spline axles. This will be something that the more serious offroaders may want, but not your daily driver. The rear stuff will come along faster since it also fits the Titan. It has been made clear that the market is Titan driven. I have also found that Detriot does make a "TrueTrac" locker already for this rear end. AC has them for around 5 bills. The axles are plenty strong so we do not need to address them. So if you need a diff for a daily driver AC has it now, if want something more its going to be a few more weeks. I think the spools will cost about the same, 5 bills.

The front end stuff is being done by a major vender to remain undisclosed at this time. With Nissan being envolved on that developement. I sent them samples and gave them a lot of input as to what we need. I told them we need a 4 spider clutch type diff and stronger CVs/halfshafts. I mentioned a 45lb. break-a-way point earlier but know that it will need to higher than that to do any good for a serious offroader.

The gear sets should be out very soon for the rear. They said they going to produce 4.11, 4.88 and 5.13s. Again since they also fit the Titan they will be out first. They are still working on the front end stuff for us R180 guys. Nissan is working on getting axle/cv stuff from another vender.

Believe me that when something comes out you will know it same day!

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#533418 - 01/06/07 06:37 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by xterraracer:
I have also found that Detriot does make a "TrueTrac" locker already for this rear end. AC has them for around 5 bills. The axles are plenty strong so we do not need to address them. So if you need a diff for a daily driver AC has it now...
Wow, that's interesting.

Just looked, I don't see them listed on their site.

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#533419 - 01/06/07 08:45 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Muzikman:
Wow, that's interesting.

Just looked, I don't see them listed on their site.

Maybe this will help. Remember to look under Titan. Same rear end. Check out their aluminum covers too.
http://www.4x4parts.com/public_html/shop...575bb96acf4ada1

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#533420 - 01/06/07 09:09 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ahh, ok, I was looking under Mechanical lockers. I missed that it was a True Trac.

Well, that gives those S and X model MT's folks something to play with.

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#533421 - 01/06/07 08:40 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


It will actually work for anyone that has to still drive on the street. If you blow your factory elec locker and it is not warrantied. I bet it will hold up better than the factory unit did. Since it is not electric it will not be machined down causing the weak spot.

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