I can see both sides of the argument. I bought my X as a grocery getter, wintertime travel truck, and for something to drive on dirt roads and sand from time to time.

People are fragging the front (open) diff on stock tires. The previous gen had a larger r&p plus the cast iron. If nissan would have retained that, we probably wouldn't be talking much about it. I bet they saved $17 per unit with the aluminum one. I'm also sure engineering told them what would happen.

If Nissan came out with a bigger front drive, I'd trade-in or buy the parts. it's a nice truck, but not for the trail, IMO. I had something else smaller for that anyhow.

This is true, but why then did Nissan take the time (i.e. spend the money) to put in 40:1 crawl ratio, solid rear axle, clutch cancel, hill decent control, a clean undercarriage?

The Pathfinder has IFS because it's a camping/mall vehicle. If that's all Nissan intended the Xterra to be, they could have just used IFS on it as well and saved on having two different rear ends. In fact, if that were the case, they would have just dropped the Xterra altogether and only marketed the Pathfinder.

So Nissan wanted an Off Road Xterra. Not a Jeep Rubicon, no, but a solid OHV. But for whatever reason, they put lousy diffs in it. Maybe it was bad enginering, or maybe the bean counters didn't want to pay for heavier duty stuff.

My personal guess is it was the bean counters. Nissan released a lot of new vehicles from 2004-2005, which meant a lot of engineering costs. Nissan's not a real strong company financially, which undoubtedly limited how much they could spend. So somewhere along the way it was decided to go the cheaper route.

I'm sure they know now that it was a mistake, and I bet the next redesign of the Xterra sees better front diffs, but it's late enough in the current product cycle that nothing's going to happen.

Of course, Lloyd had his rear diff go out, and I gotta think that's bad engineering on Dana's part. A D44 should be strong enough for our Xterras, at least with 32s or 33s.

But no, I'm not buying it that Lloyd abused his Xterra.

Sorry y'all. I'm going to throw in my $0.02 worth, which in real dollars, that's really only about 1/1000 of a cent.

At any rate... The Dana 44 (in its stock form) is a strong enough diff to be used on the rear up to about 31" tires, possibly 32" if you're staying on the street. Anything more than that, and you better do some differential upgrades and/or replace it with something stronger. I'm not talking front differential; just rear.

Lloyd, as much as you may hate Nissan, you did wheel your truck, and it did break. Offroading is not a cheap sport. And it doesn't come without risk of breakage.

You will lose your arbitration. You went online and wrote, on numerous occasions, your offroad "testing" of the new generation Xterra. And because of that, you will lose. Nissan does not have to go very far to show you took the X above and beyond its intended purpose. Warranties only cover defects, not user "abuse". And the term "abuse" is interpreted by the manufacturer, NOT you.

Everyone here knows the aftermarket parts did not cause the breakage. But they don't have to be the cause; they only have to contribute. You see, the manufacturer doesn't have to prove an aftermarket part caused the damage; they only have to prove the aftermarket part COULD cause the damage. I don't think there's anyone that could prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they did not contribute. Which means you lose your battle with the aftermarket question as well.

If you want to wheel your truck, then you have to pay to play. Start with a stronger vehicle base if you want to get serious in offroading. Or spend the money to make yours capable. Offroading a stock rig is asking for parts to break, plain and simple. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". And that goes for a stock Xterra, stock Rubicon, stock FJ, etc. NONE of them in their stock form are made for any "offroading" beyond a moderately rutted dirt road.

BS, I am running D44's in my Rubicon on 35" tires, beat the hell out of it and I have not had the diff blow. Sure, an axle shaft, but never a diff. If I was blowing half shafts in the front or axle shafts in the rear, i would not be complining. The fact that the diffs are going first is complete BS.

Ok. So you've blown D44 axle shafts running 35" tires.. And you disproved my point, umm, how?? Last time I checked, axle shafts are STILL a part of the axle... If you're running 35" tires on a D44 rear and stock internals, you deserve whatever breakage you get.

I'm not defending Nissan for putting a D44 into the Xterra. Frankly, I thought that was a grossly undersized differential all-around for this purpose. A D44 was GREAT in the Cherokee of yesteryear; but a cherokee is not even close to the same size as a new Xterra.

What part of the axle broke really doesn't matter; the Xterra is a street vehicle, just like every other vehicle that's sold by major manufacturers these days. If you're dumb enough to believe the advertising, well.....

I had a Rubicon with 33" for 4 years, and my friends with 35' tires, and we did wheel hard, and never had any diff issue with the D44
[/QUOTE]BS, I am running D44's in my Rubicon on 35" tires, beat the hell out of it and I have not had the diff blow. Sure, an axle shaft, but never a diff. If I was blowing half shafts in the front or axle shafts in the rear, i would not be complining. The fact that the diffs are going first is complete BS.[/QB][/QUOTE]

No, it does matter what part. Axle shafts are easy to come by and for a couple hundred bucks you can get custom alloy shafts, which on a D44 would be plenty strong to handle the weight and power of the X (that is if the diff held up).

On my Rubi I trashed the ouside of a front axle shaft. The outters on the front Rubi axle is actualy froma D30, so the part of the axle shaft that I broke wasn't even a D44.

Bottom line, diffs should not be exploding...preiod.

X2

This is always good to read

http://www.dana.com/

"Dana and certain of our U.S. subsidiaries are operating under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code as debtors-in-possession. Information about the bankruptcy proceedings can be found at: http://www.dana.com/reorganization.

WARNING: While we continue our reorganization under Chapter 11, investments in our securities will be highly speculative. Although shares of our common stock continue to trade on the Over the Counter Bulletin Board (OTCBB) under the symbol "DCNAQ," the trading prices of the shares may have little or no relationship to the actual recovery, if any, by the holders under any eventual court-approved reorganization plan. The opportunity for any recovery by holders of our common stock under such reorganization plan is uncertain and shares of our common stock may be cancelled without any compensation pursuant to such plan. "

I would do further research to see if Dana skipped on proper heat treating or proper preload on the carrier or gears.

OK. So maybe/maybe not the X diff is under-engineered. Maybe/maybe Nissan practices slightly misleading advertising. Maybe/maybe not Lloyd looses his case. Maybe we now all feel less confident going off road. Perhaps we have polarized the forum into a heated debate as to who is right/wrong.

The real question is what do we do moving forward? Do we have after market available now so if we need to do a repair we can install new bombproof hardware, or will we need to again use the Nissan stock components?

The cards have already been delt. What's the new plan man?

http://dana.mediaroom.com/index.php/press_releases/1511

Dana Corporation Earns Nissan Quality Awards

Dana Corporation Supplying Propshafts, Axles for Nissan Vehicles

http://dana.mediaroom.com/index.php/press_releases/52

Dana’s propshafts are featured on both the two- and four-wheel-drive versions of the Pathfinder, Frontier, and Xterra vehicles. Dana and its subsidiary operations are also supplying rear axle assemblies with standard differentials for the Frontier and Xterra two- and four-wheel-drive vehicles. Design enhancements have improved the durability of the axle, while increasing its torque limits.

“We’re delighted to supply Nissan with durable, high-quality driveline technologies,” said Michael J. Burns, Dana chairman and CEO. “These products help satisfy the high level of performance Nissan truck owners have come to expect.”

For those of you having problems, I would take an educated approach to solving the axle issues. I would not be surprised if they could not talk opening about the rear axle unit, but it may be worth a shot. Good luck.

Technical Resource Park Test Track
Dana Technical Resource Park
8000 Yankee Road
Ottawa Lake, MI 49267
419.887.3441
419.887.3941 (Fax)

World Headquarters
Dana Corporation
P.O. Box 1000
Toledo, Ohio 43697
Phone: 419-535-4500

Hey, I would be all for aftermarket helping us out. I would spend the money. But I'll be damned if I am spending $3000 to replace the front diff with the same POS that it came from the factory with. Same with the rear. If I have to pay, either don't rape me on the stock crap, or give me something better for a higher price.

I'll pay $2500-3000 for a new front diff (including house) with gears of my choice, locker, and new half shafts.

I am just comparing it to what a SOLID or Currie axle costs.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/projectbuild/129_0506_2004_nissan_titan_custom_dana_60_axles/index.html

They ate up two rear diffs. Supposedly the grapevine is that Dana outsourced the spider gears, which are powdered metal and were not properly heat treated; again grapevine material---take it for what its worth.

It does suck to break parts but especially if the part was defective (which has not been proven) but the fact remains that when you make a decision to wheel a truck and break something...well too bad.

I havent had any issues with my 02 but I drive the truck smartly and know what it can and cant do that is the key.

If you dont want to break your truck dont take it in the dirt...and if you do break it dont go rolling up with all sorts of hot off the shelf SEMA crap and expect them to help you.

Tim

You guys really don't get it do you? I understand that you have to pay to play and I am willing, trust me. But my rear diff blew while doing 15mph down a residential street.

Diffs should not be exploding like they are. Hell, even guys with D35's in Jeeps have better luck than we are having, and we are supposed to have D44 rear diff. And no matter what is posted above, a D44 should be plenty strong for our vehicles.

As I stated, I wouldn't care if I was blowing shafts, I can carry spares and swap on the trail if I have to. I can't easily do a diff swap on the trail, and even if I could, my pockets are not deep enough to afford a $1500 spare carrier/locker and R&P gears.

Trust me, some of us do get it. I agree 100% with what you and others are saying here - there is obviously an issue here and it should be addressed.

At least to me, it appears that Nissan is trying to take the easy way out instead of the right way out. Even if this turns out to be completely unfounded, from the way this particular complaint has been handled (again purely based on one point of view at this time) I do not have a huge amount of faith in Nissan right now.

What's worse for Nissan is that this thread (as little as it may seem) is actually starting to pop up in Google searches for Xterra differential issues. While Nissan may win this case, they sure do seem pretty reckless with their image - these aren't the 80's afterall - the internet can ruin people - and companies reputations are not exempt (whether it turns out they were right or wrong).

Just do a search on Nissan.com and why Nissan does not own the domain name - and what it's done as a company about this. Again - take it with a grain of salt as it too is written not by Nissan - but by the owner of the Nissan.com domain.

The proof is in the metal chunks I got out of my Rear Diff when I changed the fluid. I even gave them to the dealer and when I picked up my truck they were in it. They had the opportunity to keep them and case closed, but the Dealer I go to knows full well that the failure I had has nothing to do with the application of my vehicle.

I've seen first hand two separate '05 Rear diffs that blew, one being raced and well the other, mine. Same issue with the spider gears.

I had my diff replaced at 24K Miles and as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed and Nissan can feel free to replace it under warranty 2-3 more times before my warranty period expires. If there is enough love of my X by then I may go the route of changing out the drivetrain to keep it or just trade it in on the Next Next Gen in 2010.

If you didn't see this the first time I posted it. Pictures of broken Spider Gear teeth.

You can very clearly see that there was insufficient hardening and the tooth was just pushed off after the 1/32nd " hardened outside was fractured.

My service advisor (Brad @ Peoria Nissan) told me they test drove the X before tearing it down and they blew the diff the rest of the way and limped it back to the shop.

Perfect timing and all thanks to Shrock and an Oil leak when I tried to put the protection on. I could have been stuck on a trail somewhere.



A shear test on an unused component is all that is needed to prove this point, however there is most likely no possible way to determine exactly which vehicle has the defective parts until they come in for this issue, then they replace the diff with a '06 or newer that has 4 spider gears instead of two. A birdie told me that this elimates this issue. We'll see!

Best of luck to anyone who has this issue.

The Front Diff is a whole other story that I haven't had any issues as of yet, but I'm sure that chapter will be rearing it's ugly head soon. Until then, I'll not comment other than to say I know of two people who have had issues and they were repaired under warranty w/aftermarket parts on one of them, '05 and the other was a stock '07.

The point you don't get is that what usually breaks on a pre 05 Nissan truck is:

1-Bent tie rod end: Easy fix on the spot. No pore than $30 in parts. Aftermarket solutions for $500.00, no more breaking.

2-Blown CV axle: Easy to replace. If you don't carry the part, go to AutoZone and get one for $200.

3-Blown auto hubs. Easy to replace. Aftermarket manual hubs available for less than $200. You can even get a fuse for the aftermarket hub for $20.

On 05+ Nissan trucks:

1-Blown diffs: Not easy to replace unless you carry a whole axle spare, who of course nobody does. Cost to fix: over $2,000. No aftermarket fix available. No disconnecting hubs, so if you don't want to tow your truck back home, you would need to disconnect both CV axles (not to fix it, just to drive home).

So do you think that the diffs being the fuse on 05+ truck is not a design flaw and the solution is just don't wheel your truck and don't believe in advertising?

Yep, pretty much. It was pretty obvious that the '05+ Xterras and Frontiers were built for soccer mom comfort, and not for offroading.

Not to mention, Nissan has been using the Dana 44 in the TITAN since it came out, and the only problems it had were ring gears exploding because the case wasn't large enough for enough oil for proper cooling. They realized, and fixed that problem VERY quickly after coming out with it.

So how, from an Engineer's point of view, if a Dana 44 is "strong enough" for a v8 w/ well over 300 hp and 370 ft-lbs of torque, isn't strong enough for the new Xterra/Frontier with significantly less power? From a design standpoint, it is PERFECTLY fine to use that axle on this type of vehicle, for its intended purpose.

IF there is any FLAW, it rests somewhere in the actual production of the axle, and not its design. Therefore, it is NOT a design flaw.

Now I'm not going to say there isn't a casting defect w/ those spider gears if they're blowing up. Then again, out of the total vehicles sold, we're ONLY talking a very, very small minority of vehicles with the issue, most of which have been replaced under warranty.

My best guess is Lloyd approached this in a much more demanding way, and when he didn't get his way right off the bat, he went ballistic in one fashion or another. Once it escalated, Nissan most likely did a 5 minute search, and realized he had offroaded his rig, and now out of spite, they aren't going to do shiite for him. And by now, their lawyers have let then know that they WILL win the case, because Lloyd has screwed up at almost every step along the way to get this covered under warranty. So for this particular instance, I think Nissan is making an example out of him.

Moral of the story: if you think you have a warranty claim, don't go bragging about offroad adventures, pull into a dealer with aftermarket suspension in the area of the damage, and sure as hell don't go running your mouth detailing the whole saga until the saga is OVER... Those 3 things alone will pretty much lose a warranty claim all by themselves; add them together and you can pretty much guarantee there isn't a courtroom in the US that'll listen to your side of the story....

You are wrong about one thing, the Titan's are still blowing up rear ends. When I was talking to the service manager when I got mine replaced I had asked if he had seen any X's or Frontiers with blown diffs and his response was, "No, we we see a lot of Titans". Poke around on the Titan boards, you will see a lot of failed rear diffs. They do seem to be all M226's with lockers.

I would poke around, if I believed internet messageboards were a decent sample of the average user. However, I don't. Nobody gets on a messageboard to say they don't have any problems... Internet message boards are a place for people to bitch about products, not praise them. So reading messageboards to see if there are ample amounts of failures is pretty much a waste of anyone's time.

Umm, ok, then what the hell are you doing here? That makes no sense.

No matter what it's a good gauge if it's a reoccuring problem or not. If you search for "blown rear titan diff" and you find nothing, well, then it would be safe that it's not a common problem, but if you do the same searcha nd come up with even a dozon people with the same problem, well, then you know it's a reoccuring problem.

So you're an engineer and for you it's better to have the diff as your weakest point rather than an axle shaft, CV axle or hub which are easier and cheaper to fix?

Tell me who you work for, so I don't buy products from them...

yes, I am an engineer. What I'm saying is, and you evidently missed it so I'll say it again, is it's NOT an engineering problem. It's a casting problem. The design engineer didn't physically make spider gears that are weak...

Don't confuse engineering with manufacturing. It's two different processes, and a screwup at either can have the same effect. However, since ALL of the spider gears aren't exploding, and the D44 variant has been used in Titans for quite some time, I'd say that is MUST be a batch of poor quality spider gears that made it into the diffs.

That's NOT an engineering problem; that's a manufacturing problem. Blame the jackass quality control person at the factory that let a bad batch of metal go through; don't blame the engineers that are designing things several hundred miles away...

You won't find me on here bitching about something I broke offroading, and try to pawn it off as a Nissan problem, either...

My truck has some faults; they all do. But I've taken care of most of 'em, and will fix the others as they come along. I sure as hell won't do something that causes breakage, then get pissy because Nissan won't pay for it. Last time I checked, my warranty doesn't cover stupid. Does yours?