ok a couple statements... hell maybe even a Diatribe, but its long over due:

to the 4x4 owners who have an issue with me(you know who you are

im realy tired of all this

i own an xterra

i love my xterra

it is my xterra

what i want to do with my truck is none of your business, if you dont like it, too bad... i will be happy and thats what matters.

i assume you all are happy with what you do with your truck, thats great more power to you, its good to se your doing something in the 4x4s besides driving junior to soccer practice.

I have no problem with people owning 4x4's i do have a problem with people having a problem with me because they think i made a bad choice... maybe so but its my choice to make... there is absolutely no reason to attack me for my decisions/opinions...

and no i am not starting another debate on this subject... and could care less if you respond to this...

we should all just be happy we own xterras and have fun.

I know i will

Outstanding! It's great that you cleared this up. Now we can follow this discussion in Five different threads ! ARGUGHHGHGHGUUH!!!!!

Dude...remember, I'm on your side....but

WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING THIS UP!!

And setting yourself up as a target for abuse?

Just asking the question.....

i know your on my side... e-mail me i'll explain... like i said im just a bit tired of it

You shouldn't even care what other people say, why are you letting it get to you? I completely agree that it's your 4x2 and you can do whatever you want and if you turn it into a wicked-ass sahara desert runner then that's awesome. So somebody thinks it's useless, who cares? Fuck 'em.

Then drop it.

You always bring it up. Anytime 4 wheeling is mentioned, you have to sneak in something about a 2WD.

I have no problem with you owning a 2WD Xterra, that's your mistake, not mine. I do have a problem with you trying to convince people on XOC that a 2WD Xterra is a capable SUV off-road.

A 2WD is not capable. A front wheel drive car has better traction than a rear wheel drive SUV or truck. The only thing you have in your favor is ground clearance, and a Subaru or Volvo wagon have the same (except they have AWD).

just e-mail me... id be happy to explain... but if i respond here... i know its gonna blow up again

Too late...

Because until just recently, he was on a mission to convince the rest of XOC that his 4x2 could go anywhere a 4x4 could. It's not that he made a bad choice at all, it's the fact that a 4x2 is not as capable as a 4x4. Todrick took that as bias, not fact. But it seems we're all in agreement - more or less now.

Man you're as bad as Brent with the whole MAXC thing. If you would just let it drop, nobody would even talk about it.

Get over it already.

anyone have any pics of an X desert runner? I've searched but couldn't find anything.

Well actually... this would make the Eighth thread (in the recent past) that will probably turn into a train wreck.

At least hopefuly it will be contained to this one thread. which will probably move to "The Asbestos Lined Room" shortly.

For reference the other Seven... train wrecks can be found below.

2WD IN SNOW

Stuck!!!

2WD or 4WD ?

Super Xterra

Why did you choose to buy an Xterra?

Liberty getting air

Whew

Ian does this board have a "merge" option for threads?

No...

Why not just lock them all??

I have no interest in throwing my hat into a debate that has no point and can achieve no real resolution. A point though is that this debate was resurected this time out in the 2WD forum. Interjected into a discussion of the capability of 2wd X's there were the usaul snide critisisms about 2wd trucks from 4x4 X owners. So yes , in this case it was a case of going out of your way to put the 2wd owners in their place.

I've never seen a picture of an X climbing a hard core rock wall either. Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be done. Right? You guys that mod your trucks are waiting for the day you can do those things in your trucks.

Same with some us 2wd owners. SUVs have been turned into desert trucks. Broncos , 4runners even an Expedition have all run the Baja 500-1000 races. A Hummer has won the production class for the past four or five years. But racing isn't even the dream. Just to be able to tear around the open desert without having to worry about a pile of rocks hidden behind sand as you hop over a three foot wide ravine would be nice . Doing it without breaking anything would be better.

It is interesting that you guys say you rock crawl. Yet when I look at magazines , and pictures of hard core rock crawling that were posted on this site in another forum it doesn't look anything like what I've seen here. Why not ? Probably because it would take an amazing amount of money and fabrication to the point that it wouldn't be an X anymore.

None of you have "rock crawlers". Your 4x4's wouldn't really stand against more capable trucks in a mud bogging competition , a tough truck competition or any other test of strength against more capable trucks. Read all the magazines and dream all you want. Dillusions of grandeur aside you are a fry cry from being in that class.

Noone has said in any of these threads that a 4x2 could do what a 4x4 could or was more capable or even just as capable as a 4x4 off-road. They merely said that they were capable. The idea is suggested that the X would make a nice platform for a fun desert truck.

Noone here has a real hard core Baja vehicle. Just because Nissan don't promote it as that and it hasn't been done does that mean that it's not possible. Driving a truck fast in the desert sounds like fun to some people , including myself.
Does that mean that I have dillusions of being the Nissan Xterra version of Ivan Stewart ? No , it just means that I and others like me would like to explore the possibility of making the X capable of doing what I would like to do and have a lot of fun doing it.

Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean that with time and money it can't be done. So it's not your cup of tea. So what. Those of us with 2wd trucks that do off-road them would like something to aspire to . Just like you guys that look at those crawlers and boggers and aspire to do that in your trucks , some of us someday hope to fly over a whoop section at 70MPH.

thank you, after two years, i just get too worked up to form a thought that coherant

I don't think you've ever had a thought that coherent.

Just throwing out a suggestion to you "Desert Racers".

Instead of saving up for some bolt on lift kit or max travel kit, why not go for the Ford TTB? It is probably the best bang for the buck. The Nissan steering is a total pile.

It would be similar to the 4x4 guys doing a SAS, but cheaper. No gears, lockers, custom driveshafts, etc. There are a couple of Nissan truck owners that have done this and have had some pretty good success with it.

The reason I say this is I regret ever putting one damn dime into trying to lift an IFS system. Worthless. I should have just kept saving my pennies. I'm not baggin' on the lift itself, it does it's job, just the entire system is what I'm fed up with. So with that said, I think you would be better in the long run with the TTB or really a true custom setup that guts your entire front end and starts all over.

Even if you don't have high asperations of being all that serious, who knows, you might? And in the long run, it just might save you money and time replacing parts.

Just thought I would throw that out to you.

]

It isn't immediately obvious who that was intended for because you didn't quote anyone's post. It was directed towards me I asume ?

yes socalpunx it was aimed at you... but i was asked not to quote if the message was directly above mine(like yours was when i hit "reply") oh well i guess he beat me to the punch

I've never said that, and anyone whole claims to is or

Heavy Off-road(rock crawling/mud) 3% (13)

Poll results thus far. 13 members of XOC bought their trucks for "heavy rock crawling and mud". In your opinion , Ian did they buy the wrong truck?

From the Arizona Xterra Club forum
1/29/02
Topic: Lower Ajax
Origionally Posted by Scobyb:

"I may be interested as well, where is Florence Junction? You say there is a 2wd trail that crosses? Mine is not a rock crawler yet, but I would like to watch others right now. I am new to the state so where is Florence Junction?
Thanks,"

Now , by using the word "yet" in this statement it would lead a reasonable person to believe that he thinks his X is capable of becoming a "rock crawler" and that his X , with the right tires is eventually going to become one.

( I only am using this quote to provide an example of an X owner that sees his truck as having the potential to be a rock crawler. I'm not saying whether it can or can't be a crawler only demonstrating that people here see it as having the potential. I don't know Scoobyb and this is not a judgement of him or his aspirations for his X at all whatsoever . )

I would doubt that Scobyb is alone in his ambitions for the X to be a rock crawler. But it is nice to have a dream , isn't it? Even if it is a potentially expensive and far fetched one.

The only point that I am trying to make is that the X is different things to different people . We all have our own individual ideas of what we want our X to be. There is nothing wrong with that and it should be encouraged rather than discouraged in the interest of sharing knowledge and ideas about the X.

Being a 2WD and 4WD owner I can say this:

Yes I like rock crawling (what else are you going to call it) and can try and see how far I can get in a 2WD (w/o damage) or just take the truck out of 4WD and try it

Yes I like going fast on a dry lake and catching some air sometimes (of which 4WD does no better than 2WD)

Yes I can go more places in my 4WD than I can my 2WD

Yes I can go places in my 2WD that I am/was not supposed to be able to.

Yes I like off-roading with 2WD and 4WD vehicles and no I do not have to be "EXTREME" all the time.

Yes I do like the challenge of driving on the Freeway from California to Florida, solo, in under 40 hours.

Yes it's nice to have learned how to 4 wheel in a 2WD

So.....what's the problem? Xterra's are Xterra's. It seems kinda ridiculess for us to be doing all this bickering about 2WD vs 4Wd and then at the same time planning 2WD capable trail runs vs 4WD only trail runs vs all vehicle trail runs......

We all drive Xterra's (or in my case a Frontier as well)....LET IT JUST BE.

I thought about getting another Xterra (before I got the Frontier), a 4WD one....And then thought it's stupid for me to have two vehicles in the first place....it's REALLY stupid for me to have two Xterra's (1 2WD and 1 4WD)....So I compromised and plan to be just stupid and have an X again......But it will be 4WD this time.

Why?

My original reason for having/wanting a 4Wd in the first place....To be able to go where I want....when I want....And if I can't.....then I don't need to be there in the first place!

Well I figger that my 2WD X is better than any of y'alls cuz it is 2WD on the left side only!

Yeah thats rite - LF & LR drive - goes like boogers on speed around those right-hand corners, but it shore do suck arse on the lefties!

Next time I will go for the optional fully floating defribulator valve! I think that outta cure it!

over here horse...time for your annual beating!

Annual? Try weekly.

Here's a simple comparison...

Rockcrawler, (on a rock). 44" tires, Dana 60's, locked, 200:1 crawl ratio 1000+ RTI at 30 degrees.



SUV, 32" tires, stock axles, 33:1 crawl ratio, 700 RTI at 20 degrees.



There is a huge difference, and yes, someday, maybe someone will take a SawZall and cut up a $25,000 Xterra, replace everything on it and make a rockcrawler.
A person with a clue however would buy a 1985 Toyota and start from there instead.

I don't usually post to these 2WD versus 4WD arguments. I believe that everyone buys what they buy for a reason. I will point out that even though my Xterra will never be a true "rock crawler" I do drive very slow(crawl)over large rocks. I really like all the 2WD folks I've met so far and am happy that they are here. The more the merrier. I think the reason that some 4WD people rag on them is two fold:
1) They enjoy the feeling of superiority they get when they put a similar truck ,with what they consider inferior ability, down.
2) They worry that a 2WD truck in the group will make them unable to go where they want to go.

I was one of the people that stated that they purchased their vehicle for "hard core off roading and rock crawling". In comparison to what the majority of XOC members do, what I do is hard core off roading and rock crawling. In comparison to the type of vehicle represented in Ian's first photo, what I do is a Sunday drive in the park. I assumed that the survey meant in comparison with other XOC members or people that buy SUV's in general. I wanted a Jeep Wrangler that I could modify over the years until I couldn't drive it on the road anymore. My wife insisted on a SUV. I compromised. I'm much happier than I thought I would be. One last point; several 2WD owners have traded in for 4WD, has anyone gone the other way around?

Don't let them bother you Todrick, I enjoy using my winch.

Xterrian,

Your post was right on the mark, IMO. I find it interesting that listers insist on pointing out irrelevant details. A debate or lecture on what rock crawling is, for instance, doesn't belong here.

Extreme uses were used to illustrate the point that there is a wide variety of interests that motivate one's desire for a vehicle. Most of us, in the general population...not just on this list, are in the middle of the spectrum when it comes to what we use our X's for most frequently and why we bought it in the first place.

If this is a "trail riding" or "four wheeling" list, then change the statement on the homepage or change the name. I, for one, joined because I saw what looked like an interesting forum for X owners. I didn't expect to be made to feel badly because my Xterra is a 4X2. I did my research before buying what I wanted, from a wide variety of vehicles, and bought what I wanted.

I would like to see more DIY threads on mechanics that don't involve suspension, etc (that are specific to 4 wheelin') and more on the things so many advise just bringing to the dealer to fix. I understand that the X is so new that most are still under warranty, but I hope to stick around as time goes by so that I can benefit from those threads. It will save money, in labor etc, and benefit ALL Xterra owners.

Do many listers have service manuals? How 'bout the Haynes manual? I have one on order and hope to use it for routine maintenance or possibly more involved repairs. I enjoy it and find it interesting. I also understand that there will be many I can't, because I don't have the tools. But, I'll deal with that then!

Anyway....

See ya'

I agree w/ Xterrian 100%.

I also agree w/ Ian's last post. The term "rock crawler" is used wrong in this 4WD vs 2WD debate. I always think of the hacked up trucks when talking about rock crawling.

The Xterra may never be at the level of those true rock crawlers, but I have a huge amount of respect for the men and women on this board that have gone over and up some impressive obstacles w/ their Xs. Both 4WD and 2WD!

A agree w/ you SoCal. Which is why I said I think the term "rock crawling" is being mis-used. Anyone who's using it to define their X's offroad ability is mis-using it.

Once again, a 4x4 X can go over some nice size rocks in stock form, but once modified slightly it is pretty impressive for a SUV. Maybe my standard of what's "impressive" is skewed since I'm a Road Racer at heart.

I am looking forward to Todrick's X being finished. I would like to see if he can build up the X to do what he wants. I just don't understand why you guys lets the little "4x2s are big station wagons" comments get to you. If your secure in your purchase let the comments roll off your back.

OK, why does it seem I only imagined SocalX posted something?

No one is trying to make anyone feel bad.
I'm just trying to stop the misinformation that a 2WD is anywhere near as capable as a 4WD so people interested in buying an Xterra, who read this board for advice, are not led in the wrong direction.

I deleted it. Any time I respond all it does is continue the debate and as I said earlier , this can never come to a resolution.

You know I think I made some of the following comments in a post a while back but I can't find it so here I go:

I'm a 2wd X owner. I was driving an Altima that was coming up to the 80,000 mile mark and started looking for another vehicle. Was really getting sick and tired of being yet just another person in a 4 door sedan out in the world. I also have two kids and wanted something a little bigger that I could carry more crap in without stuffing it in the trunk.

I had allways liked the X for it's looks and I've allways had pretty good luck with Nissan cars. I looked into a GC but everytime I convinced myself that reliability wasn't as bad as it seems I would see 500 of them on the way to or from work and decided that I didn't want to be yet another drone. I then thought about a Yukon or a Tahoe . But then it hit me : they're made by Chevrolet and Chevrolet pretty much sucks.

Which brings us back to the X. The size I need in a stylish , love it or hate it package. I took a test drive and was hooked. It also didn't hurt that I can purchase a Nissan under the VPP program and paid $500 under invoice with an additional $500 dollar rebate and 3.9% financing.

When It came time to decide on the model I wanted I didn't even consider a 4x4. I'd never had one. Never needed one. Never even wanted one . I was buying a nice tall family vehicle with ample power and the room I needed and I was happy. I opted for the SE model because I actually like having a leather steering wheel and the little titanium accents dressed it up a little, made it a little more unique. I liked that it had a sunroof. Understand , I smoke and it sucks having your windows open in the rain or cold to let the smoke out. ( I never smoked with the kids in the vehicle). It just so happens that I have never smoked in the X because I didn't want it to smell like smoke or risk cigarette burns.

I drove of the lot with my black SE and I felt that I had made a wise purchase . The price I wanted , reliability I expect and styling that set it apart.

Keep in mind . Commercials are just advertising to portray an immage and it really wasn't my inspiration in my purchase descision. The off-road thing didn't even weigh into my descision. Not until I popped on to the XOC did I even begin to realize that there was more to it than my basic needs for purchase. I've since done some light modifications to my truck , not only to make it better and more comfortable on road , but a bit more capable off road.

I've taken it on a few trails and had a damn good time doing it. I have a new hobby. One that I had not even invisioned when I made my purchase. Now I'm going to make the most out of what I have. I'm pretty sure , if Nissan doesn't screw with the design too much there will be more and more aftermarket support.

I am an automobile enthusiast. I allways have been . Shit , a friend of mine left me his Porche all week and I'm like a little kid in a candy store. Just excited to be behind the wheel of something fun and different is cool. But I am now an X enthusiast. For better or for worse. 2wd and all. That is where my energy and passion for vehicles is focused. I've found my X to be a quite capable vehicle for my needs. It has met them and exceeded them far beyond my expecations of what I had percieved my X ownership would be.

I credit my 2wd minivan/station wagon as well as the XOC for introducing me to the exciting world of offroading. I hope , along with the rest of you , to continue to seek the limits of my truck's capability and seek out new ways to help it exceed those limits and raise the bar of it's performance.

thanks man

Me Too!

Hey Todrick, where are you at with your buildup you've been talking about? If you've been waiting all this time for SLR's long travel stuff, I hope you've been saving alot of $$$$$.

All this talk about 2wd vs 4wd is rediculous.
Some of you have even referred to a 2wd Xterra as a station wagon, well ok so your idea of a station wagon is just a bit different then most of us. What I really can't understand is this macho gotta have a 4wd vechile attitude. I have lived here in MD for 20+ years and very rarely ever had a need to use 4wd. I don't get my kicks by taking my $20,000+ vehicle off road were it could get torn up. If I wanted to do this I would buy a beater Jeep and beat it up some more and not care about it. I don't have the need to drive my truck around with lights all over it and a winch on the front bumper just so I can use it a few times a month to head out on some trail. If I worked for the forest service or maybe construction were I needed frequently I would have gotten one with 4wd. See not all of us are trail runners. Some of us just like the Xterra for it's looks and for it's utility features and that's it, end of story. There is no way most resonable people are gonna believe that a 2wd is nearly as capable as a 4wd in offroad situations. Only a fool would follow a 4wd drive thru a mud hole or up some big hill with a 2wd thinking he could keep up. I don't give a rats butt how good your driving skills are, when the traction/control goes so do you. I have had my Xterra off-asphalt on some fire trails which were a bit more challaging then I expected. Frankly I am pretty amazed at how capable the truck is. But, I know my limits with 2wd.

Let the flames begin!!!!!!!!

But that is exactly why this debate continues. Quite a few people on XOC believe this fallacy, and continue to post topics about it.

I don't care what people drive, but when 2WD owners claim that their 2WD is capable off-road, then we have to step in and set them straight.

Just a thought here, but if it were not for 4WDs, where would that beater 4WD Jeep come from in your scenario ?

Ian, I just can't bring myself to beat up my daily drive. I love this truck and off roading
with it scares the hell outta me. If I had a beater truck then I would'nt care if I trashed it even further.

Ekh.

Todrick is the only one going on about it.
Jackal rarely speaks (on XOC) about his 2WD--he just drives it up the fuckin' trail.
SocalpunX has some thoughts on the issue, too, but Todrick is really the only one who argues the off-road strengths of an Xterra (I'm the first to tell you my X will never see more than an overgrown driveway . . . )

Quote:

I don't care what people drive, but when 2WD owners claim that their 2WD is capable off-road, then we have to step in and set them straight.

Why? It's only adding fuel to a fight you are having with one man.
The rest of the 2WDers don't really give a shit what you can do with your truck, we're just tired (I am, anyway) of listening to the holier-than-thou crap.
I think part of the problem is anyone's definition of "off-road". For you, it's much more a rugged, rock-strewn, Moab-based adventure. To me, off-road is getting to a good camping spot at KOA. Maybe there needs to be some kind of baseline definition of "off-road" before you bitch-slap each other any more over "off-road" abilities . . .

Quote:

Just a thought here, but if it were not for 4WDs, where would that beater 4WD Jeep come from in your scenario ?

Good point.
In twenty years, I'll pick up a beater Xterra for next to nothing, and beat the crap out of it on the trails for awhile, too. In the meantime, the new, sweet, $23K truck gets bathed and waxed regularly, and is not abused.

i am still waiting on his kit.

mainly because the only other option would be a custom fab'ed kit that would cost a hell of a lot more(based on the "were not releasing pricing info but somewhere around $#,###" figures from SLR)

we'll see... also this job market is killing me... i am working on a barter with a custom shop... but the owner is a busy guy and i have not spoke with him in a couple weeks... that may be the route i go

Xterra_Canuk,

Are there any good camping site(s) at KOA?????

I don't agree with the abused part of the post.

I don't think off-roading with an X is considered abuse, just vehicle/human testing.

Ekh.

i really dont, i know this whole debate started two years becasue of my statement "a 4x2 x with a good driver can go where a 4x4 x with a novice driver cant..." i still believe that is true... but not just cause of ability... also because of confidence...

dont believe me, ask Imacsae, if his truck would have went up Box canyon in AZ following jackel, if he wouldn't have had me driving it. after following jackel up the toughest obstacle he even said "i would have turned around"... this was a case of it being more about the driver and less about the vehicle... cause now ivan goes places that scare the crap outta me

but believe what you want. i have and always will know that all things being equal a 4x4 is more capable than a 4x2... only a complete moron does not know that.

but now the debate is not even about that, it seems to be more about trying to convince people i am the one who starts this fight... when in reality i just want to go out and have a good time with fellow x owners who dont care whether we have 4x2's or 4x4's

My apologies, Todrick, I didn't mean to come off sounding like I was criticizing you.

My only intention was to note that the whole 2WD vs. 4WD debate seems to have two combatants only: Todrick versus 4WDers.

I appreciate your arguments, and I have never heard you say that a 2WD can go someplace it can't. Every time I've seen you post about a 2WD's capability, it's after you or Jackel have proven it.

Good luck in the future taking your X places it shouldn't be able to go, and proving nay-sayers wrong.

Happy wheeling.

Prob'ly not. Just making a point about the limits where I will subject my truck to off-roading. I've never done KOA--just being facetious.

Quote:

I don't agree with the abused part of the post.
I don't think off-roading with an X is considered abuse, just vehicle/human testing.

Quite right.
I apologize, I'm sure no one abuses their Xterras off-road. I prob'ly would, though, as I would be considered a novice driver.

Wait, I take it back--I saw Chia's rig up close Saturday. Okay, everyone but Chia does not abuse their Xterras off-road . . .

Except for me...maybe...... :rolleyes:

Maybee ????????

I thought the dabate (in part) was about this imaginary "bias" that you believed existed within XOC....and why there is so much talk about 4wd and off-roading here, but none about pre-running and desert racing.

thanks man, the post was not so much directed at you, but the comments you made have been made by others... and its especialy true in this case... ID DID NOT START THIS... and when i do come in and defend those of us who made the choice to buy and wheel with a 2wd, i get blamed for being the one who always starts it...

thats simply not the case... its really a pointless arguement... as it seems that i am arguing one poitn while the oposition ignores it and argues a completely different point, its like clapping with one hand... and no resolution will ever come of it

that is part of it, but since this thing started in 2 threads simultabiously this time and then quickly spread to 2 others... it was really about several things.

when i made to post that you responded to what i was refering to was the whole debate in general, i just find it very sad that 2wd owners can not post how happy they are with their trucks in the 2wd forum with out non-2wd owners coming ibn and mocking them, or worse yet out-right slamming them for making a decision they are obviously happy with...

i just dont get it... im happy with my truck as im sure the people who argue this debate with me are happy with theirs... so whats the problem?

the problem is Opinions are like @$$holes... everyones got one

The reason I've gathered why someone else always steps into the 2wd forum when anyone mentions anything about a 2wd being even remotely capable offroad is just to make sure that anyone who's thinking about getting a 2wd or just got one doesn't get misled and get their hopes up thinking that they have a decent offroad machine in their hands...
So why don't we just put some big fat disclaimer at the top of the forum saying that?
Then they'd have a good heads up knowing that they should avoid getting a 2wd if you want to do anything fairly difficult offroad. Then the 2wd people can live without having a 4wd coming in and "correcting" us about what we're discussing about offroading etc. Just an honest suggestion.
I KNOW my 2wd can't go many, many, many of the places a 4wd can, I've got that in my head... but I'd like to see how far it will go, because I know that for me, it is a decent offroad truck. My definition of "offroading" is different than someone from Colorado, or California, or New York.
I know I love my 2wd... sure, I honestly wish I had 4wd, but I don't... I'm still going to have fun and see what I CAN do. Learning experience. Just my little thought.

NOT TRUE
From the Liberty Gets Air Thread:
You followed immediately after with
Opinions are like assholes, so quit rubbing yours in everybodys face.

like i said

"...everyones got one"

sadly Kerensky97, you did nothing more than show your lack of any understanding of the whole topic.

this time the arguement was a whole lot more complicated than 1 thread. let me explain:
---
you should read "Whew" from the 2wd forum... the attacks started there...when nolarocks was mocked. other 2wd owners jumped in and agreed with Nola after he was mocked... then i posted that i was happy that other 2wd owners had figured out that its about having a good time, not whether or not you have 4x4... it then went downhill and quickly turned into the old arguement that we all know and hate

my post to the Liberty getting air thread you mentioned was a response to the other arguement, and i posted it over 12 hours after the original arguement broke out in the "Whew" thread, which by this time was well into the second page

but i think what realy started it was Ian posting the 4x4 or 4x2? poll three days earlier. it was in that thread that that the first disagreement happened. HOWEVER it was not even about which is better or anything close to it... it was about why there were so few 4x2s on xoc in comparison to 4x4s... looking back i guess that its possible that

-my posting my belief that a few of the 4x4 owners had bullied 2wd owners so bad it had chased them away, or made them afraid to join in the first place.
and

-the fact that several people agreed with me.

ruffled feathers and prompted the attacks that happened later.

but thats just my opinion.
and like i said
"Opinions are like @$$holes..."

My question is this..

Why does anyone really care if Todrick wants to turn his X into a desert runner or not? It's his business, his truck..

Never have I seen Todrick say, "Why'd you lift your X, Ian?" or "What's with the Pathfinder wheels, Brent?".. I know Pathy wheels have nothing to do with it, and yes, Ian lifting his X is proportional to what an Xterra is marketed for, offroading..

But Todrick wants to go a different way, so just let him spend his 30+ on truck & mods and drop it, people.. Maybe he'll be happy, maybe he will have to eat crow, we'll see, now won't we?

Obviously, I can't hold a candle to guys like Schuld or Ian for that matter in the 4 wheeling department, that's why I shut my mouth on things like that, for I am ignorant to it.. Hell, my first offroad experience with my X won't be till this Saturday, and I've had my X longer than a lot of people around here..

All I know is, the bullshit from everyone involved in these 4x2 vs. 4x4 threads(including me) needs to stop.. It's a waste of time, and personal insults aside, will be my last comment about it in this thread..

Can't wait till everyone starts getting lockers and whatnot, then perhaps they'll start dishing out the shit on the "regular" 4x4 boys and make it even worse.. :rolleyes:

No one does. It's just this misconception that a 2wd Xterra is a pre-runner. It's not. It has zero capabilities of a pre-runner. Oh wait, it has IFS...just like 99% of the other cars out there on the road. A 2wd Xterra is not a trophy truck, not even remotely close. It's hard to believe anyone would really actually think that their 2wd truck is something other than a plain old 2wd truck.

Nobody cares if Todrick or any other 2wd owner takes their X off road or into the desert. But it shouldn't be posted that a 2wd is highly capable off-road or that it's a great desert runner. It's neither. It's simply facts, that's all.

Well, I happen to believe my 2WD truck is not just a plain old 2WD truck -- it's a 2WD Xterra. Everything I need, nothing I don't. I don't need 4WD. when I get to the gnarly stuff, I park the X and whip out the mountain bike and conquer the mountain with sweat and muscle. Or maybe I'll unload my hang glider and fly over the gnarly stuff.

My 2WD X suits my needs perfectly. Where I grew up (Santa Barbara, where there are few if any off road areas) we, as boys, thought those big trucks with the huge wheels were neato. Then we grew up, realized that most of them were posers, and that the inverse proportion law applied to most of them (the bigger the tires, the smaller the penis).

I did not buy my X to make a statement, or to see how big a rock I can go over. I bought it because it carries all my toys (bikes, kayak, hang glider, mountain board) and me to the places I use them (mountains, ocean, desert). You got a problem with that?

1st of all you've been following him arround this board for 6 days now acting like a bitch in heat. Spouting off the same useless crap while ignoring anything anyone else had to say.

If you have such a hard on for Todrick , E-mail him , ask him for his number and give him a call once and for all. It's getting old . Since when are you the appointed one who should save all perspective 2wd owners from a dismal future withough 4wd. Geezuz Christ you're like a 5 year old.

2wd drive Xterras have the capability to do light off-roading. It serves the purpose of it's owners.
NOONE has EVER said it was a pre-runner , a trophy truck or any other of the overgeneralized crap that you have spewed. He wants to mod his truck to his personal tastes so be it. Let the shit go man. A week of the same shit from you is enough.

You think you're being cool by keeping the "let's dick with Todrick bandwagon going ? It stops here.

thanks socalpunx... you have a point, no one is listening to anyone else, nothing will ever be solved like that.

to all the 2wd owners: keep it up. you guys made a great choice and im sure you will enjoy using your truck on and off-road.

the all the 4x4 owners: keep it up. you guys made a great choice and im sure you will enjoy using your truck on and off-road.

i think thats about enough of that

Let's discuss the capabilities of a 3wd Xterra! I mean, if you removed one hub...

"Oh wait,"

I know you're not going to respond to this because you have a hard time seperating fact from fiction but : A) The 4wd is the same IFS so does that make it less capable for that reason? Why would you site the IFS as the reason why 2wd sucks ? At least if your're going to say it sucks , say it sucks for the right reasons. (The front diff and the little lever to shift it , perhaps?)

"Oh wait ,"

B)99% of the cars out there more accurately have 4 wheel independant suspension not just IFS. As opposed to our trucks that have a straight rear axle , unlike most cars. (and most SUVs these days for that matter)

"Oh wait,"

And C) 99% of all desert race trucks and pre-runners have IFS as well. Hummm , Mr. sarcasm , let me see here : desert running trucks have IFS , the X has IFS . I say it again : if you're going to spew crap just for the sake of spewing crap at least spew crap you know something about.

Um, no. It has 4wd. It has a way to control traction. A 2wd does not. It's much more capable.

IFS does not mean the Xterra is a pre-runner. If that were the case, every car on the road would be a pre-runner. When you bought your 2wd Xterra, did the window sticker mention anything about you buying the pre-runner model?

So that makes the Xterra a pre-runner then?
Hoooo-kay.

Like the fact that desert race trucks have ifs, and the X has ifs, therefore 2wd Xterra = desert race truck. You mean that kind of crap?

I think a moderator maybe outta move this to the ALR since it's getting some people worked up.

Once again you miss the point. I am going to try it one more time S L OO WLY.

Why argue that the X is so different solely on the fact that it is IFS ? Why not argue that the stock steering is a weak link and not up to the task of heavy high speed desert running ? Why not state that it's not ballanced and too top heavy ?

Why not give the example of the fenders being too tight as to not allow sufficient wheel travel without damage ? Why not argue that it doesn't have the horsepower to get it up and over tough jumps ?

To argue that it can't be done with the exampple of IFS is also saying that it has a common link with desert trucks. Thus contradicting yourself.

And once again , noone said that because it had IFS just like a desert runner that it made it on the same footing.

4WD Xterra--moderately capable off-road, stock.
More capable with (XX)-degree of modification. Capability expands based on modifications and dollars spent (all to the taste of the owner).

2WD Xterra--slightly capable off-road, stock.
More capable with (XX)-degree of modification. Capability expands based on modifications and dollars spent (all to the taste of the owner).

Neither version of the Xterra is, right out of the box, a winner. It's a solid base to mod. You want to lift it, put big tires on it, and drive over rocks slowly? Then do it. I know it's fun. Happy wheeling.

Some want to put long-travel suspension, work on developing a faster, desert-friendly runner? Then let them do it.

You have to mod yours to get it where you are happy (at least, many have, and many will continue to).

What the hell do you care that Todrick wants to mod his this way? More power to you, Jason. Have fun.

Just checking in. One BIG thing that separates the 4wd Xterra from the 2wd is the low gearing in 4wd. That low gearing allows the vehicle to move over obstacles slowly and in control without tearing up trails and breaking parts. It's not just an issue of power to all 4 wheels.

Anyway, back to your bickering about IFS and pre-runners.

Another BIG thing that separates the stock 4wd Xterra from the 2wd is:

"All Xterras feature healthy ground clearance, and the 4x2 versions are slightly higher than the 4x4s. The 4x2 XE rides 8.7 inches above the ground and the SE a full 9.2 inches. The 4x4 XE and SE provide 7.9 and 8.4 inches of clearance, respectively." Cars.com

We did, I had to tow and winch Norman up every hill on Saturday. 3WD is one step below 2WD... which ain't nothing on the trails in the Northeast.

Matt

Why would a SE ride higher? Doesn't it have more crap on it than the XE?

Hey Matt , nice sig !!

matt you might want to read THIS

I'm pretty sure that quote is for the XE with the 235x70r15 tires and the SE with 265x70r15 tires. Most people got the 265's on their XE anyway, so the XE and SE are effectively the same clearance-wise if you have the same tires.

Interesting, though, that the 2WD has more clearance.

thats odd. because when suspensions where talked about a couple weeks ago i stated that i thought they were identical between 4x4 and 4x2 and Ian corrected me and said the 4x2's had less clearance... i have to wonder if cars.com f-ed up their numbers

will this thread ever die?

top 3:
1 todrick - 15 posts
2 socal - 11 posts (6 after stating "Any time I respond all it does is continue the debate and as I said earlier , this can never come to a resolution.")
3 xoc - 6 posts, but appears to have given up after page 3

oh yeah...cygnus, it does appear (IMHO) that you are spewing some crap. But I do agree that this may be better suited to the ALR.

happy trails (2 or 4),
brad

If spewing crap is stating that a 2wd Xterra is in no way, shape or form a pre-runner, and is nothing more than a plain old 2wd truck then I'll get my shovel out and start cleaning up right away. A few people just don't want to believe this, which is fine and dandy, but it should not be posted that a 2wd is capable of doing something its not (i.e. desert racing). To me, that's what I call spewing crap. But...all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

I'm pretty sure those numbers are right - I saw them somewhere else previously. The reason for the difference in clearance is probably the t-case.

out of the box... no its not.

but we were not talking about out of the box.

Nice. LOL

FOR GOD'S SAKE MEN LET IT GO!.....i could give a rats ass what truck you bought and what you did to it, and i expect the same from you

BULL SH*T!!!

Out of the box is when its the best contneder.

A stock 4x4 Xterra can keep up with just about any other reasonalbly priced 4x4 out there.
Large trucks have a few advantages but are too big, Toyota Tacoma's are a bit more capable but are expensive, Jeeps are a little better but are very closely matched when still stock.

Petersen's 4W&OR did a review on a few SUV's and trucks and one thing I found interesting was that the Xterra's minimum ground clearance was ~.5" above a Chevy Avalanche, 1" above the Jeep Grand Cherokee and 2" inches above the Jeep Liberty!
The only vehicle that rode higher was a Dodge Ram by .25 inches!

I haven't seen a picture of a stock Grand Cherokee on anything that a stock Xterra couldn't do (I'm sure there's one out there but I bet they took more damage than to make it worth it).

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't good, and I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything about 4x4ing, but I have paid enough attention to know that most hardcore four-wheelers on this board would prefer a solid front axle (not available on an Xterra), and it seems that most, given a choice (money not a factor--I said out of the box, not out of the box at approximately $25K or less . . . ), would prefer a Land Cruiser, especially a Defender 90.

I never said the Xterra wasn't capable or a great truck. I just said it wasn't a "winner" (the best of the best). It appears that many people on this board are performing mods on their Xterras, not because they're bored, or because they're crazy, or because they've got fuck-all else to spend their money on, but in an effort to make the Xterra better. Good for them.

The Xterra is a great truck, excellent off-road, but I have paid attention to Schlud's and Ian's comments--the Xterra has limitations that some other 4x4s don't have.

Mercy.... Uncle..... Peace......

Someone DELETE this f*cking thread already!

Amen to that!!!give it a break...

"And one time, at band camp..."

You guys are determined to bring this thing back to life. I'm not falling for that bananna in the tail pipe again. This issue is dead.

D------E------D ! DEAD!

Bananas can render a 4x4 incapacitated far sooner than a 4x2.

Something to do with the heavy-duty off-road muffler bearings, I'll bet . . .



Sorry, sorry, one last stupid shot . . . Todrick? Kill it, would you?