i guess people misunderstood my post, i wear a helmet... but it would be nice to have a choice... hell i even agree that it might be a good solution to give insurance companies the option to deny coverage if it is proved you were not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt... but i dont thinkthe government has any right to force people to be safe... maybe the government should ban personal transportation all together... im sure it would cut down in insurance/taxes

Wow , that sounded very Republican , Todrick. I think your really have to look at the function of the government in our lives and how much influence business interests have over governmental policies. Todrick doesn't have the resources to lobby the government to do anything.

As we have seen with the electoral college , your vote doesn't even hold the weight that most people think it does. But campaign contributions , $200 Washington lunches and promises of favors seem to be what makes this country go 'round.

In this case , the insurance lobby has been able to successfully present enough creditable evidence and statistics that have shown that lives and money will be saved if people are required to wear seatbelts.

That coupled with the awareness that the government has of the statistics like the ones presented here it makes perfect sense for the government to legislate something that ideally would save us all money and save some lives in the process.

In the case of your thinking that you should have the option , sometimes the government needs to step in and save people that are unable to save themselves. There are regulations at appartments of how high railings should be so that people don't fall over them. Sprinklers are required in certain buildings to pretect people from fire.

I'm sure there are thousands of building codes, permit regulations and other laws that are specifically regarding safety. Should someone footing the bill for a building complain at the high cost of doing business because of all the safety restrictions the government imposes that raise those costs? No, but they do.

Would they have volunteered to add those safety restrictions and all of their associated costs had they not been mandatory ? Probably not.

You say it should be your choice not to weara helmet. Your statistics about the accidents involving motorcycles left out one key aspect: Whereas it is true that most motorcycle injuries are a result of blunt force trama , most motorcycle injuries causing DEATH are as a result of injuries to the head.

As it has been mentioned here, death is not only sad , it's expensive. As a man with a wife and children , you are a perfect example of the government doing a nice job of potentially saving someone who doesn't feel he needs to be saved .

I often wondered that myself. I have a class B license to drive buses in CA, and I have noticed that the shorter buses have them (those short ones that the special kids arrive in school in), but the larger buses do not have belts.

I always assumed that if the bus ever got into an accident with a minivan, that it really wouldn't be a big deal for the occupants in the bus. It would take a crash with another bus or a semi-truck to really cause alot of damage.

I think Brent is correct also, in that the safety record of buses tends to be much lower than your typical driver. But I would like to see school buses install belts. It would teach the kids good safety habits and keep them in their seats in the event of an accident. The cage/frame in the bus will protect the kids from any major harm, but I am sure they will get thrown around inside enough to break some limbs and crack some heads.

I have a friend who was driving a school bus and someone ran a red light and t-boned the bus. The kids in the bus didn't even know they got hit. It felt like a small bump in the road. The driver stopped and checked for damage. The bus lost some paint on the side, and the car that hit it (Nissan Pulsar, I think) was totalled. The bus escaped with just some dents and some scrapes.

You know Sam, I think we all have come to expect more out of you.

I say don't wear your seatbelt, and don't wear your helmet.

It's getting pretty crowded on the Earth.
We could use the space your whiney ass is currently occupying.

Hey! Quick! Someone's trying to get warning labels put on some cookies! Run, you little dipshits, your freedoms are being endangered! Go now, fight the good fight!

AAARRRHGGGHGHG! I posted hastily so it had more than my normal amount errors...

While it may be debatable how much money is raised with seat belt summonses, you will always get one if you are pulled over for something else. At least here in NY. It is definitely a revenue generator (also some points on your license).

NY is on a massive ticket blitz right now due to the financial crunch. Everything is going up. All taxes..sales tax, property taxes, income taxes, water taxes. Bus ride is now $2.00. Crossing the Verrazano Narrows Bridge will be $8.00 in two weeks. Parking tickets went up to $110.00.

It is out of control. Now the police are handing out tickets all over the place to do one thing...raise revenues for the city. 3.5 million summonses in the past nine months raising $662.7 million in fines.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/83542p-76335c.html

Another benefit to making it a primary offense is that once they've pulled you over they can run you for warrants and have other opportunities to get wind of anything you might be up to. Many a dumbass felon has been caught from being pulled over for an expired tag or something equally silly.

Brent

i trimme dyour whole post.... too damn long

honestly i have no problem with laws protecting children from injury(railings in apartment building) hell i even like the bicycle helmet law for minors.... however as a grown adult i am insulted that there is so little faith in my ability to make my own decisions...

i figure if someone doesnt wear a seatbelt and goes through the windshiled of the car killing them... its darwinism at its finest

it may sound very republican, but i guess im just a bit of an enigma that way...

You Sure it isn't your reflection?

Have most states changed it to a primary offense?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Moby,

In NJ it is now a primary offense; they can/do pull you over for it. With roadside checks. A couple of years ago it used to be they had to pull you over for some other offense and then give you the seatbelt ticket.

Stone

Silly, silly people..... it has nothing to do with ones safety. Nothing. It is all about one thing and one thing only: R-E-V-E-N-U-E!
Police issue these useless tickets to gain revenue for small, podunk towns. Doing 57mph in a 50 does not "save" anyones lives. The police are a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to seatbelt and speeding tickets. They fly around speeding every damm day(because they can as I am told), but bust your balls for 5 miles over the limit. Or having roadside traffic stops at rush hour to check for seatbelts. I see it everyday in NJ.

This is very sore subject with me as you can see.

Stone[/qb][/QUOTE]Yeah we get so much from the tickets plus commission on every one :rolleyes: not. We see maybe 10 dollars out of a 75 dollar citation. The rest goes to the courts and state. Not a great revenue builder. You sound like one who complains that we spped around but would complain if we took to long to get to your house. You can't have it both ways. I would wager 99% of the time they go speeding around they are responding to a call for service. Being able to drive fast whenever I want is not that big of thrill to me, I am however trying to get somewhere to assist someone or to try and keep them from complaining for an hour of how long it took me to get there.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Xman6,

Relax Bro. First of all, I know the police don't get the revenue. I was talking about the towns that get it.

Oh-hum.....I do not complain about the cops getting to my house. Half the time the State Po-po's don't even bother to come out when I call them(if I ever do). As I told you once before I have family members who are in law enforcement. I have RESPECT for real cops who actually SOLVE/PREVENT crimes (such as NYC and Philly cops) instead of just writing tickets all day. Local-yocals are the ones that I have a problem with. They think/act like wannabe State Troopers, and they are not. I live in a town that does not have its own police force; it is "supposed" to be covered by the State Police. But they are too busy writing seatbelt tickets........

I'll take that wager and prove you wrong. I ride sportbikes with a few cops. One is a State Trooper, the other a local cop, and the other one a bridge cop. They ALL fly around at 100mph+ ALL the time. You know why? Because they have a badge. It gets them off EVERYTIME I am with them.
They fly around in their patrol cars ALL the time. I see them at work. Going NOWHERE. No lights. No Sirens. Nothing.

Plan and simple, having a badge and a gun is a license to speed anywhere and anytime. Do you deny this?

Stone

Here in Florida an amendment was passed to ban smoking in public places, it passed something like 70/30. So i guess that is a good thing!

Heres a link to the amendment
http://www.smokefreeforhealth.org/statement.htm

No way; that's not possible. I thought California was the only state in the union with whacked laws. Right Stonecoldchavez? :rolleyes:

i just saw a commercial for "Click-it or Ticket". it was a USDOT sponsored commercial, and the commercial stated that on June 1, it's a NATIONAL law.

press release

One day I was flying somewhere and the plane encountered turbulence. The seat belt sign came on, the Captain made a P.A. asking everyone to buckle up, and the flight attendants came through to check. So I overhear this woman behind me say to her seatmate, "Aren't you going to fasten your seatbelt?" And Ms. Einstein says, "No, I'm not worried about it. I guess I'm just a rebel!"

So happens I spent 8 years in airline emergency response and worked more than one event where 'rebels' like her ended up ricocheting off the ceiling, seats, walls, and other passengers in severe turbulence. Broken bones, a broken neck once (with paralysis), cuts, bruises...and of course, the inevitable lawsuits faulting the airline because somebody didn't have the sense to buckle up.

If you've never been in a vehicular collision, you can't begin to understand the forces your body is subjected to. Wonder what the seatbelt law compliance rate is for people after they've experienced a serious accident? Pretty high would be my guess.

Wearing your seat belt in any kind of vehicle is such common sense that the worst part of this whole debate is needing a law to begin with.

It's all good bro. I can't agree more with the fact that seatbelts save lives. I just think we should be able to decide if we want to wear ours or not. Maybe seatbelts were a bad example, but I think that the goverment makes too many choices (by making it illegal) for you on what you can do and what you can't. Now, I am not talking about common sense laws (things contained in the bible)....for example...murder, stealing, ect....I am talking about laws and ordances like being able to fine people for swearing (in Virginia Beach)! Why is pot illegal?? I think that is a prime example of the government overstepping their bounds and i don't even do any drugs at all!!!

Seatbelt laws are created by the insurance companies to make the Insurance companies have a better bottom line.

If you don't want to wear a MC helemet what do you have to do (in TX)? Pay the insurance company an extra premium.

Seat belt ticket are not revenue generators. As said previously, most of the MAX $50 fine goes to the State, the rest goes to court cost. The city/county/state then has to pay overtime for the officer to go to court on the ticket.

Individual officers dont care how much revenue the city/county/state gets. The officer sees nothing by writing um-teen tickets. The department he works for sees only a tiny bit of any revenue generated by the courts, if any.

The law enforcement branch of any local government are always the "stepchild" of that goverment. They get the hand-me-downs, works dangerously short staffed, basically $hit on by the governing body. Thats why we dont give a rats a$$ if the city/county/state makes any money off of us.

I haven't written an adult a seatbelt ticket for not buckling themselves up in 14 years (read: never). I always exercised my allowed discression and issued a warning, usually verbal.

I see Insurance companies screw people all the time. Screw 'em.

PS, there are no quotas either.

for Socalpunx:

ok you called me on my cell and explained your point...

so i did a bit of digging
heres what i found:

NHTSA admits that motorcycle accidents make up only 1/10 of 1% of all medical expenses

The rate of head injuries to non-helmeted riders (24.9% of total fatal & non-fatal injuries by body location) is less than the rate of head injuries for unrestrained auto drivers (39.6%). Moreover, in terms of shear numbers, there are nearly 10 times more auto fatalities attributed to head injuries than for motorcyclists.

45.5% of motorcyclists involved in accidents had no motorcycle license; 92% had no formal training and more than half had less than 6 months experience. 62% of the accidents and 50% of the fatalities involve riders between the ages of 17-26. Hurt Report, Traffic Safety Center of USC

to me it would go to show that requiring automobile drivers to wear a helmet makes much more sense than motorcycle helmet laws... and mandatory safety courses would serve to reduce costly accidents and injuries more than any other law... you convince people to pass a helmet law for cars and i will give in to a law for motorcycles...

one more fact to think about, and im sure you have heard the first part of this:

NHTSA reports show 40% of fatally injured motorcycle riders were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.

sounds pretty bad huh
to bad the, rarely reported, rest of that statistic goes like this

40% [/b]were[/b] wearing helemts at the time of the crash

20% were undetermined

add it up and look at the numbers.... NHTSA only posts the first part of this... when you factor in the rest of the numbers it is obvious that wearing a helmet and not wearing one has little impact on crash survivability.... nice spin,huh

CLICK IT OR TICKET! a huge campaign going on in Jacksonville right now. 0 tolerance. Are you in the NAVY licolnnellie? i was stationed in Virginia Beach for 3 1/2 years.

The government overstepping their bounds? The government is the people's representative, and laws are a reflection of the public will. It's illegal to smoke pot or swear publicly because a majority of the people want it that way. You speak as if the government is a separate entity imposing its will on the helpless public. Not so. And by the way, wearing your seat belt IS common sense.

Stone

No problem was just saying the city or the pd doesn't get much of the ticket where I work. I know you were not dissing us. I would agree everytime I get stopped when I do it usually goes like this.

Officer: Evening sir
Me: Hey Cory (or whatever the officers name might be
Officer: Shit you fucker I thought I was gonna get something
and he turns and walks away.

Perk of the job? More than likely. I will not argue that but I only speed while in the squadcar while I am responding somewhere. Officers that speed in the squadcar all the time are abusing the badge.

I don't enforce the seatbelt law much unless the passenger doesn't want to give me his name or the driver is being a dick. If you want to die that is up to you.

Sorry Moby, we must be getting all the illegals from Illinois and Texas. :rolleyes: