They have this big campaign in Virginia right now to catch people not wearing their seatbelts, pull them over, and ticket them. I didn't get pulled over, but I got to thinking how amazingly ridiculous this is. We live in a free country, yet we have a law that will punish you if you do not wear your seatbelt. I choose to wear my seatbelt because of my concern for my own safety. If you choose not to wear your seatbelt, you are not affecting, or hurting anyone but yourself...so why the law?? Most laws have to do with morals and forcing people to do what is right. If the law for seatbelts is there to force safety and save lives, then why isn't it illegal to smoke cigarettes for everybody? It is ridiculous. If I don't want to wear my seatbelt, then I shouldn't have to and I shouldn't get in trouble for not doing it. I can understand the whole thing with proper restraints for children, but if you are an adult...you should be able to make your own choice. The only reason for this law (and it is ridiculous) that I can think of is to keep insurance premiums down...and if that is the only reason...than shit is out of control!!

Maybe it is just me, but I feel that this law infringes on my freedoms that I have fought for and continue to fight for (for another 7 months then I am done!!)

Well, if you're a parent, you are endangering the welfare of your child if you are killed or crippled because you don't wear your seatbelt. That alone is reason enough to enforce the seatbelt laws.

Well as a taxpayer in a province whos healthcare system is pushed to the max I am happy that my tax dollars does not go your 14 months rehab because you stuck your face through the windshield cutting off your left ear breaking both your cheekbones. all thanks to a strap that takes 4 seconds to put on. why not?

Ok, good point...but I still don't think enough reason to make it a law! There are plenty of dangerous things that parents do every day that are legal.

I always understood it to be a law because of the safety factor (tyring to keep you alive if you're too stupid to otherwise take care of yourself), similar to wearing your helmet if you're on a bike or a motorcycle.

Plus, I thought it was a financial thing -- it costs the government an awful lot of money to scrape you off the road.

I don't have a problem with enforcing laws that promote health and safety as long as they're not too rediculus. Those same laws also punish drunk drivers to the max.

Now, with that being said, laws like this (if it passes) are just way too out of control:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/13/oreo.suit.reut/index.html

I agree with her....

Taken from http://www.idsnews.com

Right to be stupid

By Cherry Blattert
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Published Monday, June 3, 2002
Updated 03:23PM Thursday, July 25, 2002
What's next on this highway of government protection? Since the government is taking great lengths to ensure safety, they should have highway checkpoints testing blood and urine samples to see if we're all taking our vitamins. If I don't sit with good posture, I might have back problems, and consequently, chiropractor visits. Better make house calls, in that case. The feds need to raid my pantry -- some of my snacks may be too high in fat. We must have all these measures to keep insurance rates low.

I hope this satire illustrates the absurdity of the new seatbelt laws. The "Click It or Ticket" program began with good intentions, I'm sure. The way the idea became popular was by promising low insurance premiums if seatbelt laws are in the books.

It's one thing for legislation to prohibit harmful actions from one person to another, although the government has gone overboard in legislating these types of laws. It's an entirely different situation, though, when personal actions are prohibited because Father Government knows what's best for us. Seatbelt restraints only help individuals. If I don't wear my seatbelt, you won't be harmed in any way.

The only exception is when parents fail to buckle up their children. This is a different issue, and I am in favor of the government enforcing laws requiring parents to buckle up their children. This legislation would prevent harm to children dependent upon their parents for safety.

I hope we all see the lunacy in allowing overzealous police officers to hold up traffic so they can pass out fines to those who aren't buckled up. That's the nuts and bolts of the argument: fines. Since not wearing your seatbelt has no affect on anyone other than you, the only real reason the government has for enforcing such a law is the revenue profited by such a measure. If we were to distribute all the revenue from seatbelt laws back to the people before it reaches the hands of the greedy government, the officers would not be so earnest in ticketing. They would not be so eager to pull everyone over during rush hour either. These officers want money and overtime.

While these police officers are standing in the streets hassling little old ladies, clergymen and other innocent citizens, you can rest assured that the thieves, rapists and murderers are not twiddling their thumbs waiting for the police to resume their real duties before these criminals commit their crimes.

Just remember, no matter how much the government tries to make you think otherwise, you still have a right to be stupid in this country. If you don't wear your seatbelt (you should), you and only you, will pay the price. Your family members may be upset, but perhaps they can persuade you to buckle up. If they can't persuade you to click it, neither can a ticket. Let's wait in anticipation then for the next round of enforcement: Click it or jail time. Then, perhaps: Click it or death penalty. Don't let these feds take away your rights.

It is true: Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Seat belt laws seem harmless, but they are unnecessary and encroach upon your rights. Take a stand now, or it may be more than a ticket next time.

Well ... tobacco companies give millions of dollars to politicians campaign coffers. They also employ many thousands of people. That will never become illegal.

Seat belts on the other hand have a dual purpose. Insurance companies lobbied for the legislation plus the real zinger is .... it generates revenue for local municipalities by police giving out tickets. The tickets aren't cheap here in NY either. I think $50 the first time.

Cell phone usage while driving is next for most areas. We have it here . I think that is $100 for the first time and $250 for the second offense.

Bullshit Brent. If I wear my belt its my choice. Do I make my daughter wear hers? Yes, all the time.

Seat belt laws are just another intrusion into personal rights. Why? Because folks who wont take responsibility for their own actions (not wearing a belt, eating junk food, smoking) cause grief for those of us that do by starting all kinds of dumb-ass lawsuits.

I pay taxes and I believe I have earned and payed for the right to have the government scrape me off the road!!

You see, this quote says it all. It is not true, because of the extra taxpayer costs involved with ambulance , hospital, insurance, etc etc etc. We ALL get hit with the costs. It should be right up there with stopping at stop signs, street lights, and having your car inspected every two years. If you dont want to wear a seatbelt fine, but pay for your extraction and rehabilitation (if you live) yourself.

Good point, but I don't think you could argue the point that our healthcare system and our insurance situation is pretty screwed up! Because of this problem, we are forced to infringe on personal freedoms and create stupid laws to solve everything!

Waaaaah!

Infringing on personal rights? Bullshit.

Driving itself is NOT a right. Get over it.

How is driving not a right? You mean to tell me that driving is a privelage???????

Here is another point.
Air bags in the US are designed to stop a 200lb? man NOT wearing a seatbelt. As a result, the force of an air bag going off can cause injury to children and small adults.
In Australia where it is mandatory to wear seat belts and has been for 30 years, the force of the airbag is less than the US. As a result, there are few injuries to children because of airbag deployment.

I am also a believer in natural selection and not paying for other people's insurance. So I think the airbags should only deploy if the seatbelt is on, a funeral is much cheaper than rehab.

Richard

I believe that California was the first state to have a mandatory seatbelt law. When they first initiated it , the policy was that they could not pull you over solely for a seatbelt violation but you would be cited if you were pulled over for another reason and were not wearing your seatbelt.

I have a brother who used to be a cop and now he's a fireman and he tells me that there is close to 100% compliance statewide here in California. Once you get over the initial annoyance of it all it becomes routine. I don't think that states are expecting huge revenue from this over the long term since 100% compliance is the ultimate goal.

If wearing seatbelts cuts down on the severity of injuries in auto accidents and 30% of the population doesn't have medical insurance and auto insurance premiums keep creeping up , why does it not make sense to wear one?

This attitude of I can allways do what I want because I'm a free man to make my own choices is bullshit. Great, do what you want. But at the same time don't carry auto insurance and cover your own ass. Because when people crash their cars and it becomes statistically more expensive for insurance companies to cover the medical and repair cost, they raise my rates.

30% of Americans don't have medical insurance so somehow , smome way , we are all footing the bill when they don't have the means to pay for their care.

When do people figure out that freedom doesn't mean doing what you want with no regard for the outcome and who it affects?

Damn Skippy it is!

That's why you have to take classes before you're allowed to take contol of such a dangerous object.

What about all the tax dollars and resources spent on enforcing this law when the majority of people know that it is wise to wear your seatbelts? Couldn't that money and time be better spent hunting down rapists, sex offenders, murderers, and the likes? Some states have thier seatbelt enforcement program as a top budget item. I wear mine all the time, but I wear it because I choose to do so. It is definately the right thing to do (wear your seatbelt), but I do not think we should be forced to do it.

Do the math, I am sure the cost per ticket (include cost to pay the police, the paperwork, the judge, minus the revenue from the fine) for not wearing seat belts is MUCH lower than the cost per ambulance, hospital stay, morgue, funeral, and then lost wages of a former contributing member of society.

I once did an accident analysis in school. We made some changes to some high accident intersections in town and theoretically changed the interesection to reduce accidents. We had to do a benefit cost analysis and conclude the changes to be more beneficial, less beneficial, or draw. For each death, we assumed that the cost to bury them, process them, insuranc settlements, and the lost production from that person was to be $2.5M dollars over the supposed lifetime of that one person. (assuming that person was to live a normal lifespan)

That is $2.5M lost per death from an accident.

Do the math, its more economical to have this law and its safer too. Stop your whining, you loose.

Driving is absolutely a privilege. Thats why you need a license to do it.

I've always grouped the people who don't wear seat belts with the people who don't wear helmets when on a motorcycle: stupid.

:rolleyes:

As for acquiring a license for driving a vehicle, it clearly states in the pamlet for attaining a Massachusetts drivers license: "Driving in Massachusetts is a privilege, not a right"

mbflyerfan - Yeah, you are right. I was wrong.

What are some good excuses you have heard for not wearing a seatbelt. Here are some that I have heard.

-"it will wrinkle my clothes"
-"its hard to lean over to get into my glovebox."
-"I dont like the way it rubs on my neck, lap, arms, etc."

and my personal favorite.
-"It will trap me in the car if I am in a really bad accident and the car is on fire."

Shouldn't this be in the ALR?

Airbags are designed to stop an adult wearing a seatbelt not one without. Read you manual it says it right there if you do not believe me.

If you have ever seen one explode you would know why

The club house is where discussions about informational non-Xterra related topics go. Not until the conversation becomes heated or when the topic is so controversial that inevitebly the conversation will become heated does a topic belong in the ALR.

And who is going to take care of her if you're killed for not wearing your seatbelt? Is she going to be put in a position where she has to help take care of you if you're crippled? What happens when your insurance runs out? This is not something impose upon a child if it can be avoided.

(Yeah, I know you're divorced and her mother would take care of her etc. but you're not the only example)

Brent

Fact Sheet

Of the 31,910 vehicle occupants killed in crashes in 2001, 60 percent were not wearing a safety belt. [The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Annual Assessment of Motor Vehicle Crashes, 2001]

Safety belts saved 13,274 lives in 2001, and if all vehicle occupants over age 4 had been wearing safety belts, 7,334 more lives could have been saved, NHTSA estimates. [NHTSA, Traffic Safety Facts Overview, 2001]

In 2000, the deaths and serious injuries prevented by safety belts resulted in savings of $50 billion in medical care, lost productivity and other injury-related costs. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

Motor vehicle crashes in 2000 cost a total of $230.6 billion, an amount equal to 2.3 percent of the gross domestic product, or $820 for every person living in the United States. [NHTSA, Economic Impact of Crashes, 2002]

I really don't know why anyone would want to drive without a seatbelt on. I've been in three serious car accidents in my life, in each one, everyone in my family was wearing a seatbelt. No one has been seriously hurt. I'd hate to think of how screwed up I'd be if I had been launched through a windshield or two. (I'm screwed up enough already )

As far as the law goes, I don't have too much problem with it, although I'd rather see the police pulling over weaving 18-wheelers, people who run red lights and drunk drivers. Lets get some priorities here.

I really don't know why anyone would want to drive without a seatbelt on.
I know why. Because people like lincolnnellie don't have anything better to do then be a rebel, See... they think rules are unjust, blah, blah, blah. KIda wierd for a military person.
Seatbelt laws were made so stupid people don't kill themselves. (not a bad idea now that I think about it)
Make your choice man. But let me tell you this:
You say you are an adult. Well act like one and wear your seatbelt. CHUMP!

Let me say that once I got busted for not wearing my seatbelt (I got stopped for going 45 in a 30).

I had just left Taco Bell. When the cop stopped me, he asked, "Is there any reason you aren't wearing your seat belt?" My reply? I owned up to it. I simply said, "cause I'm an idiot."

Needless to say, I don't think I've forgotten since, and it doesn't inconvenience me, and it doesn't infringe on my rights.

Or as my dad, who has seen more than his share of accident results as an orthopaedic surgeon, likes to call them, "Potential Kidney Donors."

(Yeah, I know...lots of people use that phrase)

I think, for the most part, truckers get a bad rap. I drive from DC to Indy fairly regularly, and the truckers are the safest ones out there.

I was living in a different country when the seat belt law was passed there. Of course, a week later a cop caught me without it just pulling out of a fast food joint, and I paid the $50 fine. Since then, I never fail to wear it. And I've been in a couple of accidents where it did save my ass.

Yes, I agree there's a lot of stupid laws (specially here in PA), but this one is not one of them.

People are stupid, why the hell don't there where seatbelts, heres something to think about...

80% of traffic fatalities occur within 25 miles of home and under 40 miles an hour, less then 20% of the people that died where actually wearing seatbelts, NHTSA estimates that half of the fatalities that where not wearing seatbelts could have been saved if seat belt had been in use.

I also think that more states should push laws like NY preventing people from talking on there cellphones while driving. I know some people can actually talk on there phone and drive at the same time but some people are just complete ASSHOLES

Heres an excerpt from some website...

Seat belts are the most effective safety devices in vehicles today, estimated to save 9,500 lives each year. Yet only 68 percent of the motor vehicle occupants are buckled. In 1996, more than 60 percent of the occupants killed in fatal crashes were unrestrained.

If 90 percent of Americans buckle up, we will prevent more than 5,500 deaths and 132,000 injuries annually.

The cost of unbuckled drivers and passengers goes beyond those killed and the loss to their families. We all pay for those who don't buckle up ­ in higher taxes, higher health care and higher insurance costs.

On average, inpatient hospital care costs for an unbelted crash victim are 50 percent higher than those for a belted crash victim. Society bears 85 percent of those costs, not the individuals involved. Every American pays about $580 a year toward the cost of crashes. If everyone buckled up, this figure would drop significantly.

By reaching the goal of 90 percent seat belt use, and 25 percent reduction in child fatalities by the year 2005, we will save $8.8 billion annually.

Silly, silly people..... it has nothing to do with ones safety. Nothing. It is all about one thing and one thing only: R-E-V-E-N-U-E!
Police issue these useless tickets to gain revenue for small, podunk towns. Doing 57mph in a 50 does not "save" anyones lives. The police are a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to seatbelt and speeding tickets. They fly around speeding every damm day(because they can as I am told), but bust your balls for 5 miles over the limit. Or having roadside traffic stops at rush hour to check for seatbelts. I see it everyday in NJ.

This is very sore subject with me as you can see.

Stone

If you read my posts...I say how I always wear my seatbelt!! I think everyone should wear one, but I don't think it should be the law! I don't think rules are unjust...just disagree with certain things. That is how this country has become so great, because of people questioning things they disagree with. Ohhh, and what do you know about the military robb? If you have something to say about the military, you better be prepared to stand a post!

Have most states changed it to a primary offense?

I believe Mr. Krenn to be Zen-like.
If you flew in an F-16 and they 'suggested' you where a 'chute, would you?
Afterall, it is stastically proven safer to fly than it is to drive.
Darwinism at its' best.

Nope - not even close.

Especially for something that is easily preventable (just put the damn seatbelt on!)

If you want to be a dumb ass and not wear one, then fine - just like the idiots who want to ride a motorcycle with no helmet - sign away all rights to any medical treatment, government assistance when you become a vegtable, agree to pay for your uneccesary and otherwise preventable medical costs and sign away your families right to file rediculous lawsuites for absurd amounts of money.

Do all that, and I have no problem with you doing whatever the hell you want.

TANSTAAFL - there aint no such thing as a free lunch. You don't live in a vacumm, you are a member of a society and as such you have rights, but you also have responsibilites. If you aren't wearing your seatbelt, get in an accident, and labotomize yourself, I and all your neighbors pay for it - and that sucks

So, you will get no sympathy from me if you get pulled over and fined $50 or even $100 for not wearing your seatbelt. Hell, why stop there - make it $250. I can't believe people still have a problem with seatbelts after all this time.

Maybe we are dooming our species to extinction by preventing the stupid people from killing themselves off with policing and advanced medical treatment :rolleyes:

Yeah we get so much from the tickets plus commission on every one :rolleyes: not. We see maybe 10 dollars out of a 75 dollar citation. The rest goes to the courts and state. Not a great revenue builder. You sound like one who complains that we spped around but would complain if we took to long to get to your house. You can't have it both ways. I would wager 99% of the time they go speeding around they are responding to a call for service. Being able to drive fast whenever I want is not that big of thrill to me, I am however trying to get somewhere to assist someone or to try and keep them from complaining for an hour of how long it took me to get there.

ok... finaly read this thread... i have no problem with seatbelt laws... i would wear it anyway... and it is obvious that it saves lives and injuries... hell, your surrounded by a steal box anything to keep you from slammin into that steel is a good thing...

but i must point out here some misconceptions aboutt helmets and their relevance...

do helmets save lives?
yeah probably some.
what about the excuse that they cause accidents because of impared visibility/hearing?
bullshit
do i support helmet laws?
HELL NO!!!

why?

i would say the vast majority of injuries without seatbelts in automobile accidents are caused by impact with the interior of vehicle(what else could it be... maybe some whiplash) a seatbelt obviously drasticly reduces your chance of impacting the interior of the vehicle(save for maybe the side window)

but the vast majority of motocycle injuries WITH OR WITHOUT HELMETS is blunt force trama... TO THE BODY, primarily broken ribs and internal injuries in fact the vast majority of fatalities in motorcycle accidents where the rider was not wearing a helmet is still BLUNT FORCE TRAMA TO THE BODY, generaly punctured internal organs from broken ribs

legislation requiring Body armour for motorcyclists makes much more sense...

Do i wear a helmet... yes. do i think i should be forced to by law because non-motorcytclist voters were misinformed and believe that head injuries are the primary injury in motorcycle wrecks... no.

will i wear one when i move to AZ in a couple days(no law in AZ) sometimes... certainly not during the summer, too damn hot.

I have never been in the military, I did not grow up in a military family, but I do have the upmost respect for our nations military. Lets make that clear. I realize you said you DO wear your seatbelt and thats good. I see your point about freedom, and making adult choices but I guess seatbelts seemed like a bad example to me. I had 5 aunts and uncles die in a car accident when they were young (never new them) so it has been instilled in me to wear my belt at all times. That is my choice.
No flames on the military, just stating that I found it odd that a military person would be so opposed to a law like seatbelts, I thought military life was all bout conformity. I was wrong I guess.
Oh, and by the way I didnt intend on replying , but felt I had to, to smoothe things over.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while. I don't care WHERE you are getting your data on motorcyle injuries, but what I'd really like to see is how you could prove that IF you were in a motorcycle accident and you were NOT wearing a helmet, you wouldn't substain a head injury. I totally agree with what was posted earlier about not wearing helmets or seat belts, and substaining injuries because of it's non-use; the insurance companies should be able to say "Sorry you're not covered, go pound sand".

:rolleyes:

You guys have missed an obvious point here.

Seat belts save lives. I know from experience (flipped a car three times, would've been dead if I wasn't wearing mine)

but...

It the law in PA to where your seatbelt, and your fined for not doing it in your own personal vehicle.

but...

Public transportation and school buses do not have seat belts.. WHY? Can somebody please explain this to me???

Don't want to wear a seatbelt, that's your choice. Just means that your parts will end up in front of me at some point.

Chris
Transplant Coordinator

You have every right not to wear your seatbelt, just be prepared to pay the consequences.
The officer that pulls you over also has the right to give you a ticket.

I also flipped a vehicle (3 times end over end), and I know I would have been dead if I hadn't been wearing my seatbelt.

Go ahead and not wear it, but don't post on here that you are pissed off because you got a ticket.

Well, I had the motorcycle wreck with the blunt force body trauma. It didn't kill me, but it broke a lot of bones and it tore my internal organs. That was a long time ago, when I was a very young man. I healed. I ended up with screws and wire in my bones, and a limp. But today I bicycle 150 miles per week, and I have two great sons, and I coach a lot of youth sports, and I have a good job, and a good girlfriend. My life is very full. I think I am very fortunate.

But it's not all luck. During that crash, I was wearing a helmet with a visor. That visor is completely covered with the paint of the car that hit me. The visor is impregnated with the paint. My head hit hard. It is my belief, that if it wasn't for the helmet and visor, I would probably be dead. I wouldn't be here. Maybe I wouldn't be dead. Maybe just brain damaged. At the very least I think, my face would have been torn and heavily scarred. And I'm so good-looking you know, that would be a tragedy (kidding).

I think I am one whose life was saved by a helmet. Todrick, wear the helmet, even if it is hot. If you can't stand the heat, drive your X with the AC on... and buckle up.

I wonder how the recipients of transplanted parts view the value of life and the value of things that help us stay alive? I wonder how many of them don't wear their seatbelts?

Good question. I suppose the fact that they are rarely involved in accidents in the first place. I'd still like to see them on school buses regardless.

Brent

i guess people misunderstood my post, i wear a helmet... but it would be nice to have a choice... hell i even agree that it might be a good solution to give insurance companies the option to deny coverage if it is proved you were not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt... but i dont thinkthe government has any right to force people to be safe... maybe the government should ban personal transportation all together... im sure it would cut down in insurance/taxes

Wow , that sounded very Republican , Todrick. I think your really have to look at the function of the government in our lives and how much influence business interests have over governmental policies. Todrick doesn't have the resources to lobby the government to do anything.

As we have seen with the electoral college , your vote doesn't even hold the weight that most people think it does. But campaign contributions , $200 Washington lunches and promises of favors seem to be what makes this country go 'round.

In this case , the insurance lobby has been able to successfully present enough creditable evidence and statistics that have shown that lives and money will be saved if people are required to wear seatbelts.

That coupled with the awareness that the government has of the statistics like the ones presented here it makes perfect sense for the government to legislate something that ideally would save us all money and save some lives in the process.

In the case of your thinking that you should have the option , sometimes the government needs to step in and save people that are unable to save themselves. There are regulations at appartments of how high railings should be so that people don't fall over them. Sprinklers are required in certain buildings to pretect people from fire.

I'm sure there are thousands of building codes, permit regulations and other laws that are specifically regarding safety. Should someone footing the bill for a building complain at the high cost of doing business because of all the safety restrictions the government imposes that raise those costs? No, but they do.

Would they have volunteered to add those safety restrictions and all of their associated costs had they not been mandatory ? Probably not.

You say it should be your choice not to weara helmet. Your statistics about the accidents involving motorcycles left out one key aspect: Whereas it is true that most motorcycle injuries are a result of blunt force trama , most motorcycle injuries causing DEATH are as a result of injuries to the head.

As it has been mentioned here, death is not only sad , it's expensive. As a man with a wife and children , you are a perfect example of the government doing a nice job of potentially saving someone who doesn't feel he needs to be saved .

I often wondered that myself. I have a class B license to drive buses in CA, and I have noticed that the shorter buses have them (those short ones that the special kids arrive in school in), but the larger buses do not have belts.

I always assumed that if the bus ever got into an accident with a minivan, that it really wouldn't be a big deal for the occupants in the bus. It would take a crash with another bus or a semi-truck to really cause alot of damage.

I think Brent is correct also, in that the safety record of buses tends to be much lower than your typical driver. But I would like to see school buses install belts. It would teach the kids good safety habits and keep them in their seats in the event of an accident. The cage/frame in the bus will protect the kids from any major harm, but I am sure they will get thrown around inside enough to break some limbs and crack some heads.

I have a friend who was driving a school bus and someone ran a red light and t-boned the bus. The kids in the bus didn't even know they got hit. It felt like a small bump in the road. The driver stopped and checked for damage. The bus lost some paint on the side, and the car that hit it (Nissan Pulsar, I think) was totalled. The bus escaped with just some dents and some scrapes.

You know Sam, I think we all have come to expect more out of you.

I say don't wear your seatbelt, and don't wear your helmet.

It's getting pretty crowded on the Earth.
We could use the space your whiney ass is currently occupying.

Hey! Quick! Someone's trying to get warning labels put on some cookies! Run, you little dipshits, your freedoms are being endangered! Go now, fight the good fight!

AAARRRHGGGHGHG! I posted hastily so it had more than my normal amount errors...

While it may be debatable how much money is raised with seat belt summonses, you will always get one if you are pulled over for something else. At least here in NY. It is definitely a revenue generator (also some points on your license).

NY is on a massive ticket blitz right now due to the financial crunch. Everything is going up. All taxes..sales tax, property taxes, income taxes, water taxes. Bus ride is now $2.00. Crossing the Verrazano Narrows Bridge will be $8.00 in two weeks. Parking tickets went up to $110.00.

It is out of control. Now the police are handing out tickets all over the place to do one thing...raise revenues for the city. 3.5 million summonses in the past nine months raising $662.7 million in fines.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/83542p-76335c.html

Another benefit to making it a primary offense is that once they've pulled you over they can run you for warrants and have other opportunities to get wind of anything you might be up to. Many a dumbass felon has been caught from being pulled over for an expired tag or something equally silly.

Brent

i trimme dyour whole post.... too damn long

honestly i have no problem with laws protecting children from injury(railings in apartment building) hell i even like the bicycle helmet law for minors.... however as a grown adult i am insulted that there is so little faith in my ability to make my own decisions...

i figure if someone doesnt wear a seatbelt and goes through the windshiled of the car killing them... its darwinism at its finest

it may sound very republican, but i guess im just a bit of an enigma that way...

You Sure it isn't your reflection?

Have most states changed it to a primary offense?[/QB][/QUOTE]

Moby,

In NJ it is now a primary offense; they can/do pull you over for it. With roadside checks. A couple of years ago it used to be they had to pull you over for some other offense and then give you the seatbelt ticket.

Stone

Silly, silly people..... it has nothing to do with ones safety. Nothing. It is all about one thing and one thing only: R-E-V-E-N-U-E!
Police issue these useless tickets to gain revenue for small, podunk towns. Doing 57mph in a 50 does not "save" anyones lives. The police are a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to seatbelt and speeding tickets. They fly around speeding every damm day(because they can as I am told), but bust your balls for 5 miles over the limit. Or having roadside traffic stops at rush hour to check for seatbelts. I see it everyday in NJ.

This is very sore subject with me as you can see.

Stone[/qb][/QUOTE]Yeah we get so much from the tickets plus commission on every one :rolleyes: not. We see maybe 10 dollars out of a 75 dollar citation. The rest goes to the courts and state. Not a great revenue builder. You sound like one who complains that we spped around but would complain if we took to long to get to your house. You can't have it both ways. I would wager 99% of the time they go speeding around they are responding to a call for service. Being able to drive fast whenever I want is not that big of thrill to me, I am however trying to get somewhere to assist someone or to try and keep them from complaining for an hour of how long it took me to get there.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Xman6,

Relax Bro. First of all, I know the police don't get the revenue. I was talking about the towns that get it.

Oh-hum.....I do not complain about the cops getting to my house. Half the time the State Po-po's don't even bother to come out when I call them(if I ever do). As I told you once before I have family members who are in law enforcement. I have RESPECT for real cops who actually SOLVE/PREVENT crimes (such as NYC and Philly cops) instead of just writing tickets all day. Local-yocals are the ones that I have a problem with. They think/act like wannabe State Troopers, and they are not. I live in a town that does not have its own police force; it is "supposed" to be covered by the State Police. But they are too busy writing seatbelt tickets........

I'll take that wager and prove you wrong. I ride sportbikes with a few cops. One is a State Trooper, the other a local cop, and the other one a bridge cop. They ALL fly around at 100mph+ ALL the time. You know why? Because they have a badge. It gets them off EVERYTIME I am with them.
They fly around in their patrol cars ALL the time. I see them at work. Going NOWHERE. No lights. No Sirens. Nothing.

Plan and simple, having a badge and a gun is a license to speed anywhere and anytime. Do you deny this?

Stone

Here in Florida an amendment was passed to ban smoking in public places, it passed something like 70/30. So i guess that is a good thing!

Heres a link to the amendment
http://www.smokefreeforhealth.org/statement.htm

No way; that's not possible. I thought California was the only state in the union with whacked laws. Right Stonecoldchavez? :rolleyes:

i just saw a commercial for "Click-it or Ticket". it was a USDOT sponsored commercial, and the commercial stated that on June 1, it's a NATIONAL law.

press release

One day I was flying somewhere and the plane encountered turbulence. The seat belt sign came on, the Captain made a P.A. asking everyone to buckle up, and the flight attendants came through to check. So I overhear this woman behind me say to her seatmate, "Aren't you going to fasten your seatbelt?" And Ms. Einstein says, "No, I'm not worried about it. I guess I'm just a rebel!"

So happens I spent 8 years in airline emergency response and worked more than one event where 'rebels' like her ended up ricocheting off the ceiling, seats, walls, and other passengers in severe turbulence. Broken bones, a broken neck once (with paralysis), cuts, bruises...and of course, the inevitable lawsuits faulting the airline because somebody didn't have the sense to buckle up.

If you've never been in a vehicular collision, you can't begin to understand the forces your body is subjected to. Wonder what the seatbelt law compliance rate is for people after they've experienced a serious accident? Pretty high would be my guess.

Wearing your seat belt in any kind of vehicle is such common sense that the worst part of this whole debate is needing a law to begin with.

It's all good bro. I can't agree more with the fact that seatbelts save lives. I just think we should be able to decide if we want to wear ours or not. Maybe seatbelts were a bad example, but I think that the goverment makes too many choices (by making it illegal) for you on what you can do and what you can't. Now, I am not talking about common sense laws (things contained in the bible)....for example...murder, stealing, ect....I am talking about laws and ordances like being able to fine people for swearing (in Virginia Beach)! Why is pot illegal?? I think that is a prime example of the government overstepping their bounds and i don't even do any drugs at all!!!

Seatbelt laws are created by the insurance companies to make the Insurance companies have a better bottom line.

If you don't want to wear a MC helemet what do you have to do (in TX)? Pay the insurance company an extra premium.

Seat belt ticket are not revenue generators. As said previously, most of the MAX $50 fine goes to the State, the rest goes to court cost. The city/county/state then has to pay overtime for the officer to go to court on the ticket.

Individual officers dont care how much revenue the city/county/state gets. The officer sees nothing by writing um-teen tickets. The department he works for sees only a tiny bit of any revenue generated by the courts, if any.

The law enforcement branch of any local government are always the "stepchild" of that goverment. They get the hand-me-downs, works dangerously short staffed, basically $hit on by the governing body. Thats why we dont give a rats a$$ if the city/county/state makes any money off of us.

I haven't written an adult a seatbelt ticket for not buckling themselves up in 14 years (read: never). I always exercised my allowed discression and issued a warning, usually verbal.

I see Insurance companies screw people all the time. Screw 'em.

PS, there are no quotas either.

for Socalpunx:

ok you called me on my cell and explained your point...

so i did a bit of digging
heres what i found:

NHTSA admits that motorcycle accidents make up only 1/10 of 1% of all medical expenses

The rate of head injuries to non-helmeted riders (24.9% of total fatal & non-fatal injuries by body location) is less than the rate of head injuries for unrestrained auto drivers (39.6%). Moreover, in terms of shear numbers, there are nearly 10 times more auto fatalities attributed to head injuries than for motorcyclists.

45.5% of motorcyclists involved in accidents had no motorcycle license; 92% had no formal training and more than half had less than 6 months experience. 62% of the accidents and 50% of the fatalities involve riders between the ages of 17-26. Hurt Report, Traffic Safety Center of USC

to me it would go to show that requiring automobile drivers to wear a helmet makes much more sense than motorcycle helmet laws... and mandatory safety courses would serve to reduce costly accidents and injuries more than any other law... you convince people to pass a helmet law for cars and i will give in to a law for motorcycles...

one more fact to think about, and im sure you have heard the first part of this:

NHTSA reports show 40% of fatally injured motorcycle riders were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.

sounds pretty bad huh
to bad the, rarely reported, rest of that statistic goes like this

40% [/b]were[/b] wearing helemts at the time of the crash

20% were undetermined

add it up and look at the numbers.... NHTSA only posts the first part of this... when you factor in the rest of the numbers it is obvious that wearing a helmet and not wearing one has little impact on crash survivability.... nice spin,huh

CLICK IT OR TICKET! a huge campaign going on in Jacksonville right now. 0 tolerance. Are you in the NAVY licolnnellie? i was stationed in Virginia Beach for 3 1/2 years.

The government overstepping their bounds? The government is the people's representative, and laws are a reflection of the public will. It's illegal to smoke pot or swear publicly because a majority of the people want it that way. You speak as if the government is a separate entity imposing its will on the helpless public. Not so. And by the way, wearing your seat belt IS common sense.

Stone

No problem was just saying the city or the pd doesn't get much of the ticket where I work. I know you were not dissing us. I would agree everytime I get stopped when I do it usually goes like this.

Officer: Evening sir
Me: Hey Cory (or whatever the officers name might be
Officer: Shit you fucker I thought I was gonna get something
and he turns and walks away.

Perk of the job? More than likely. I will not argue that but I only speed while in the squadcar while I am responding somewhere. Officers that speed in the squadcar all the time are abusing the badge.

I don't enforce the seatbelt law much unless the passenger doesn't want to give me his name or the driver is being a dick. If you want to die that is up to you.

Sorry Moby, we must be getting all the illegals from Illinois and Texas. :rolleyes: