I stand corrected.

By the way...I am a French Canadian, espèces de tête carrée Américane!

Here, now you've "heard"...

CCW Shooting

It's not that you "never" hear about such instances, but it's accurate to say you seldom do. It would be interesting to know, if it were possible, exactly how many (or what percentage) of personal weapons are:

1. ever needed for self-defense, and

2. are ever successfully used for self-defense.

It sure wouldn't settle the gun issue but it would be good information.

About that clip, do you really think it was responsible for that guy to engage the subject with a mother and child in the line of fire? Saw a recent article stating that for various reasons (adrenaline, conditions, etc.), in real-life shootouts, trained law-enforcement officers strike their targets with approximate 3 of every 15 shots fired. So it's smart for the clerk to have a shootout with a criminal in a small lobby with innocent bystanders present?

Don't have a stroke, I'm not arguing he did the wrong thing because there's no way to know what would have happened otherwise. The criminal may have killed them all for all we know. But had a stray round struck that child in the head, the other side in the CCW debate would be using this clip. Right?

My position on guns is that it's disgusting that America has sunk to the point that it seems advisable to carry a concealed weapon. But sadly, it has.

About the clip...you can research it or take my word that it was a good shoot. The camera angle makes it look as if the mother and chld were closer than they actually were.

The shooter did the right thing by not waiting to see if the bad guy was going to take the money and leave, or take the money and not leave any witnesses.

While it is our right to carry arms, yes, I agree that it is sad times where we might actually need them.

In the lobby period is too close for a mother and child to a gunfight. There's no point in debating whether it was a "good shoot"; it can only be declared such in retrospect because it ended well. My point is that it easily could have gone the other way.

I'd be all for everybody carrying, IF it was certain that citizens carrying weapons would all be responsible and trained, would only draw their weapons in appropriate situations, and would shoot with reasonable accuracy. My belief is that as more and more people carry, the less that will prove to be the case. Road rages will escalate into shootouts, and wanna-be heroes will start shooting at the first sign of a dispute, will fire wildly and hit innocents, or will be shot themselves by responding officers who have no way of knowing who's who.

Those incidents will be offset to whatever degree by good shoots, the question is how much.

This was a common belief and arguement of legislators in states that were considering CCW processes back a few years ago. Guess what, it didn't happen and hasn't happened. CCW permits have jumped 50% in the last two years (heard it on the radio this morning, unclear if that meant CO or US), there hasn't been any gunfights in the streets yet.

My pops is an undersheriff in a rural county in CO, that may be the most heavily armed county in CO. More than 1 in 10 people there have permits and carry. The training programs are held nearly every month, because the sheriff is a BIG fan of CCW. He trained me. No gunfights in the streets. And as a matter of fact, very little crime, no violent crimes committed in years (not saying that is a direct result of CCW, just thought I would mention it.)

The key is - responsible people. Repeat that. Responsible people don't let road rage esclalate, don't pull and shoot at the first instance of trouble... that would be criminals that do that.

Yet.

Quote:

The key is - responsible people. Repeat that. Responsible people don't let road rage esclalate, don't pull and shoot at the first instance of trouble... that would be criminals that do that.

You're right. But there's no limiting CCW to just responsible people, and that's why the hundreds of thousands of irresponsible, idiotic yahoos all over our great nation should be a big source of concern as CCW spreads.

Exactly! I chill out a lot more on the road when I am carrying because you DON'T want a confrontation. Having a permit and carrying is probably one of the biggest responsibilities that can be given to the average person. It's easy to get a job, pay bills, etc.. It takes much more discipline to carry a deadly weapon.

Mosi - yep, I behave very differently when I am carrying. Not just in the car (haven't flipped somebody off since I got it), but everywhere. I keep people away from my right side (whenever I can), sit with my back to a wall at restaraunts, look inside convenience stores before entering... and so on (all covered in my one-on-one training w/ the sheriff, more training the better).

Just in case something does go down, I want to be ready to respond in an appropriate manner.

It's a big concern of CCW holders - we don't want an excuse to see a right taken from us.

The good news is most idiotic yahoos prove themselves to be such by getting into trouble - and then they are no longer allowed to carry. They solve the problems themselves.

Yep, the first thing out of the mouth of the CCW class instructor was "if any of you have a big enough temper that stops you from walking away from an argument that could lead to a fist fight/confrontation, please leave now".

Also, for those that don't know, they go through about 1001 reasons why it's not good to use the pistol unless there is an IMMANENT threat to you or your family's life. They also go through all of the legalities of what will happen if you use it, even if it's black and white justified. So, they aren't promoting that you rush in and break up a robbery and play Rambo by any means.