More info here...

Differance between the Calmini and SLR system (aside from the price) is that the Calmini uses all new parts
where as the SLR system has reconditioned parts. Both seem beefy enough. Calmini's is a more simple
design though.

I just hope it will work out better then SLR system

(it looks like some people already looking/geting for new bushings for their SLR steering system... )

I think its understandable that SLR did NOT test their system offroad ( or it would not be needing replasment/redesign parts so soon )

Hey Calmini, where did you test your system

I believe Calmini is still testing, thus the delay..

Oh cool
Thanks

I wonder, will the steering stabilizer still work with that? Looks good, and the price is certainly nothing to complain about.

Here are some bigger pictures and the release information...







CALMINI Steering System for Xterra(WD22)/Frontier(D22)- This system is a new, complete replacement set designed to correct the chronic problem of a worn idler arm and center drag link. The system includes: new replacement Pitman & Idler Arm assemblies forged from 4140 heat treated alloy. The new idler arm rides on the stock pivot point using a much larger friction surface from durable Bronze bushings. Also included is a completely new Center Drag Link made from 1 1/8” x .250” wall thick DOM tubing. The center drag link uses beefy off the shelf 11/16” Moog tie rod ends for maximum durability. The Center Drag Link is completely rebuildable. Lastly, the kit includes new replacement 4130 alloy tie rod adjustment links that due to the system's change in configuration, are longer than stock. This added length helps reduce bump steer angle over stock. This system is simple, durable, completely serviceable, and requires no modification to stock parts or vehicle. Part Number NP12450 Price $469.95. (In production, available Aug 2002)


Look for a new larger, optional Idler Arm Bracket available for this application late June. Applications for early Hardbody(D21) and Pathfinder(WD21) models avaliable soon.

A new stabilizer bracket would need to be designed. Honestly, you probably wont need one.

If you look at the design closely, you will see that it directly addresses the major weakness of the stock system, center relay rod rotation.
The relay rod wears quickly when the Xterra is lifted because the tie rods push upward on it. The pitman side is a ball joint, and allows the relay rod some rotation, this causes the idler side (which is not a ball joint, but a spindle) to wear its bushing.

CALMINI has addressed this problem by attaching the tierod directly to the idler and pitman arm, and letting the center relay rod do only what it should be doing, keeping the two arms in phase.

It's simple and brilliant (and priced right).

Now that’s what I’m talking about for a reasonable price, wonder where the idea for those bronze bushings came from

Probably from Steve's years and years of experience designing and building suspension systems and steering systems

Great price! I may stick with calmini for my lift now. A lift and steering system for the price of an SLR lift! Downside being unknown shock quality. Woohoo. I love seeing new products for the X.
John

Edit..sorry. Moog tierod ends. my fault for reading too fast!

That is not a MOOG idler arm.. that is one that Calmini built and is much stronger.

Sweet! That will match my new upper control arms I just got to replace my AC ones...

Actually from what I am seeing they machined a new arm to attach to the factory idler arm.

Looks promising and the price is where it should be for a steering system.

Mmm, me likes...

Brent

Holy shit!!!! I hope this isn't a typo! That's a price range I can deal with.

Is Steve taking orders now?

What's with the color change on the bushings between the xterraparts.com pic and the XOC review pic?

Brent

I would guess that the pics went through a differant image processing program..

Very nice and price is right. I hope this isn't just vapor like alot of other Calmini products. They eventually show up, but historicaly Calmini has missed their shipping dates on ALOT of their products. Developing products is tough work, and Calmini should be commended, but it can be quite frustrating to wait for a product that was promised and never delivered.

Alot of people could use these things right now. I really like the fac thtat it uses "The center drag link uses beefy off the shelf 11/16” Moog tie rod ends ", and are therefore widely available from sources other than Calmini. I would love to see some testing on this thing.

The info I have is that they have one on a vehicle now and want to do a little more testing before they offer it to the world. I have on good information that the date for release posted on Xterraparts is in fact a good date.

And what Calmini products would you consider vapor ware?

Quick Disconnects, Bumper, LSD, and various other things took (or are taking) much longer than they said they would. One person in our club waited 6 months after paying for disconnects. This isn't exactly new information... Lots of people complained about Calmini's lag time.

This isn't a flame. I am actually quite impressed with the products I have seen in person.

Bryan

Although the things you mentioned are not vapor.. Calmini has been slow on delivering some of those things. Such is the manufacturing business

Early photos of prototype delrin bushings. They are bronze now. The image was edited to try to show that.

OMFG!

Please, please be the solution we are looking for. I will be so happy to not give SLR $1,000. You are right Ian, it does look like the root of the problem has been addressed.

When can I get on the waiting list?

Are the tie rods parralel to the LCAs?

Can you still use the EOE or SLR Tierod Adjusters? Looks like the new system includes them, but is not directly linked to the other steering components in the kit.

I don't think the EOE's will work with the CALMINI system.. the way that the CALMINI system works requires longer tie rod adjusters and the EOE ones are for people with standard tie rods.

From this photo, it looks like you can't use the idler arm brace... can you? It looks a bit shorter.

CALMINI will be making a new brace for this new steering setup

Being that my ceterlink is getting pretty worn, I think I will be ordering this setup... can't beat the price... $190 for a stock center link... $75 for a pair of tie rod adjusters... this stuff is CHEAPER than replacing stuff with stock parts...

Gonna put my preorder in soon...

Matt

Okay! I guess I need to sell more guns for my new steering system!!!!! If it is well made as my rear bumper I'll be buying one this fall!

Sweet....that looks great. I will certainly be placing a preorder for that. As well as an order to replace my AC Upper Control Arms with Calmini ones. I am very impressd with their products.

Certainly sucks that I have to replace my centerlink *now*.

(failed inspection)

Two words. 'duct tape'

and a few more...yeah, that's a bummer...maybe you can score one from a junk yard until the Calmini ones come out?

Bingo! Right price point, solves the problem.

Sorry, SLR. Calmini wins another one.

Fuck! And I *JUST* bought one!

Anyone want a Calmini brace?

Click Here...

Ian,

I thought you said somewhere that you had broken a couple Moog idler arms and were going back to the Nissan one? If not, I apologize, just checking since this setup uses the Moog arms. It does look really nice and will now be on my list of potential future upgrades. Sadly, my upgrade list is bigger than my paycheck!

They ought to include the new brace as part of the Steering System package just for additional reinforcement. Sure the price for the system will increase but for the additional added strength, I feel, it would be worth it.

This system does not use a Moog idler arm.
Moog ball joints are used for the center link however, and good luck breaking one of those.

The idler and pitman arms are CALMINI custom forged parts.

Matt: Stock center link is $ 121
http://www.nissanparts.cc/cart/?pn=48560-3s525

Good job Calmini. If my X was lifted, Id be all about getting your new setup. Keep the parts coming Calmini (and a higher Suspension lift please)

Is CALMINI actually taking pre orders on this? Has anyone talked to them?

Isn't that what I said? In actuallity, the LSD is still vapor. I hope you understand that I am not attacking Calmini here, but merely stating past history.

OK, cool! I must have misread or misinterpreted soemthing somewhere. Like that never happens! If my centerlink bites it, I will likely be getting this setup. Thanks!

Whatcha sellin my HK friend!

True.. true...

I know that the front LSD is something that Calmini was getting from another supplier and that is why it is not here yet..

I just talked to them, and they said they are shooting for late July to early August to ship them. They said that we can preorder them now if we want. They also said they are going to be getting several hundred of them, so everyone should be able to get one when they come out.

That is good to hear.

Awesome...

Xterraparts.com is taking preorders as well..

I will buy it from Calmini prolly. I would have to pay tax at xterraparts.com.

Just ordered mine from Xterraparts. I am psyched!

Well, there went $500 of my money! :rolleyes:

Looks like it will be out for all you GOXer's

I wonder how much extra adjusters and bushings are going to cost. hmm...

I sure will need that kit sooner or later.

Brent has seen my truck, he would say more sooner then later.

I am just waiting my centerlink to die. I've only got 8500k miles on my X, I think it will hold out a while longer.

Kit looks great, Like all Calmini's kits

Ordered mine from Calmini today. Putting my Calmini lift on Saturday I feel like Christmas is three days from now.

By the looks of your truck, I'd have to agree with Brent on that!

Didn't you break an idler arm at the mount? I do think a brace will need to be made. This only replaces the arm... from what I ca tell anyway.

I don't think the idler arm brace was the part in question here, but the sterring stablilizer.

Like was said earlier.. with this set up you may not need the stabilizer.. I am sure that someone will test to see if it will fit..

Hmmm it's not unlike the stock steering setup just built better...why wouldn't you want a steering stabilizer?

Yeah - I don't get it. I'd still want a steering stabilizer, and hell, already have one - I plan to keep it.

Me too. I can make a new bracket if need be I guess.

I am curious about bumpsteer too. If it is tolerable I don't really care.

With this talk of increased bumpsteer, that's all the more reason to have a steering stabilizer... But I see what y'all are saying I think - with the Calmini unit having a longer arrangement and the fact that you'd probably have to fab a new mount.

I don't know that I'd want to jeopardize on-road performance too much though, for the sake of bulletproofing everything. Decisions, decisions.

I would guess that because..

"The kit also includes new replacement 4130 alloy tie rod adjustment links, that due to the system's change in configuration, are longer than stock. This added length helps reduce bump steer angle over stock"

...that bump steer would be less than that of a stock system. Perhpas I am incorrect. Sure if you have the stabilizer already then why not go ahead and install it. But what I was saying is that if it has LESS bump steer angle than a stock configuration then you may not need it as much.

And you know this how? Have you been designing steering systems for any amount of time? Have you driven an Xterra with this system on it? What qualifies you to make that observation?

Having a brace has nothing to do with the bushings.. that brace is there to offer a double sheer point for the idler arm pivot.

I just looked at the pictures again, and i have a question

looking at tie rods there is no thread visible on the inside parts of them

how would alighment shop adjust them, it looks like they are maxed out in these pictures

Those shots were taken right after they put the steering on at the shop.

Because of that they had not adjusted the center links on the tie rods yet. So in conclusion.. there is plenty of adjustment in the tie rod adjustors (For something with no adjustment you must be thinking of the AC Upper Control Arms ).

Oh God, here we go again... :rolleyes:

Carlton - how many different steering set ups have you had on your X that you can provide first hand information on?

Desert Rat's had 3 now. First hand experience and he can tell you where the weak points are. Hmmm....

i do have the Calmini idler brace on my SLR setup and the bushings did wear but my centerlink held up. that's what matter's to me the most. the brace won't prevent the bushings from wearing any way. changing the bushings to bronze ones, which i'm getting from SLR today, to me is no big deal.

my truck handles and rides better with little to no bump steer after getting my alignment.

Who made those three steering systems?

AC - They did not even do proper testing before they sold them.

SLR -Theirs is of a different design

Who is the third?

And how can Desert Rat make usefull observations about steering components aside from saying what broke on someone elses design?

And for that matter he has not used the Calmini system so how can he make such a general statement?

The third...duh - the piece of crap stock system.

He WAS doing testing for AC. He knew that. Not many people drive their truck as hard as he does. Who better to test it.

He was making a generalized statement based on his experience with steering and the weak points.

I'll be anxious to see some reports on how Calmini's steering does. Anyone ever heard if the t-case gears are ever going to be available? If it takes as long for you all to get your steering as it has for the t-case gears to be available - well, guess we'll be having this same conversation same time next year.

Damn Carlton. He was just making an observation. Chill out. We will all see the truth once they start shipping them. All I can say is I hope it works well, so I don't have to replace anymore freaking steering components.

If that was a test unit and not an actual retail part, then why did he have to buy it?

Without him driving on the Calmini system then I think that what he said was wrong. Especially because he has no first hand knowldge of how it works. Nor do I think he has the technical qualifications to make such statements. Especially after the stupid remark he made about needing the idler arm brace on the SLR system to help the bushings. That tells me how little he really knows.

Have you ever had to custom manufacture something as complex as a gear set? Or for that matter have the money to do so? Do you even know what is needed to make these kinds of parts? If not then why don't you quit your bitching.

Calmini has more products for the Xterra than anyone else in the aftermarket area and because something has taken a little longer than expected you have to bitch about it.

Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. I think you need to read what you just said Carlton. Hypocrite!!

Actually I think if you counted product by product SLR offers more than anyone including Calmini. Nit picky , I know , but facts are facts.

Just to clarify, I happen to like Steve. I'm not bad mouthing Calmini by any means. They are no different than any other manufacturer when it comes to time delays. Still makes it a pain in the ass though.

Cmone Leave Carlton alone, he needs to suck up to Calmini for some reason ( none of our bussines )

SLR did absolutly no testing, or they would know that their bushings wear out after first wheeling trip

Quote:

Who is the third?

And how can Desert Rat make usefull observations about steering components aside from saying what broke on someone elses design?

And for that matter he has not used the Calmini system so how can he make such a general statement?

If you are refering to my personal problems with the AC arms then I don't see what you are talking about.

However if you are refering to the fact that AC had to "make new arms" for me then you are wrong about me being a hypocrite. AC knew about the problem before I even brought it to their attention and were not ready with the solution. Not only that they tried to hide it.

I just like picking on AC and the AZ guys.. they make it so easy

The AC system did not use a redesigned pitman or idler arm. Notice there is no drop in the pitman arm. This allows the tie rod to mount in a similar place as the stock geometry.

The AC system simply mounted the tie rod to the bottom of the stock pitman arm, changing the angle by a large amount, thus increasing bumpsteer.

I just have to say:

OlEg tYpe LiKE CaveMan...

No, it does not. Read my post above, and study the pictures some more.

When you understand the geometry better, please come back and post some more. Until then, please stop trying to describe what you know nothing about.

Here's a thought, why not call CALMINI and have them explain it to you instead of guessing what's going on ?

There's a visual I didn't need right before lunch.

Well , a tossed salad is now totally out of the question.

What a grown up response, but about what I expected.

Seriously, call them and educate yourself on steering geometry instead of just guessing what's going on, since you're way off the mark.

Can't win by logic and education so you are switching to name calling? Great!!

Where was I not decent ? You called me a prick and an ass kisser, I merely stated you should talk with CALMINI and get the facts from them, instead of making them up.

Regarless of how the idler, pitman, center link and tierods are attached, they all move in the same fashion. Turn the steering wheel, and the pitman arm turns X number of degrees. The tie rods are mounted closer to the center of the vehicle, which means they are longer, and less prone to bumpsteer. They are also aligned with the lower control arm, and travel through the correct arc during suspension movement.Bumpsteer will not increase with the design.

How do I know this ? Because I actually talk to vendors on the phone instead of just guessing at things.

Your "extensive" experience is nothing more than breaking AC's poorly designed system, and running SLR's system for a few weeks.
I'll take the word of the CALMINI engineers and their CAD/FEA software over the word of you any time.

I have a very good friendship with Steve Kramer, something I did not expect when I started running ads on XOC last year. We talk on the phone several times a week about everything, not just Xterra related issues.
Do I kiss his ass about his parts or company ? No. I see good design, and I comment on it. Do I like CALMINI products ? Some of them, but certainly not all of them. It's that way with every vendor.

Don't believe what people say about me. I am a prick in person and on the Internet, unless you treat me with a bit of respect, and then I will do the same in return.

I had a very long conversation with Steve @ Calmini quite by accident today, and he is more than glad to talk your ear off about the engineering behind his products. You've got to have some idea of what's going on, but if you do, he can gel it very well for you.
I'm pretty convinced this one was done right. If and when the time comes for me to beef up my steering, this is the answer, hands down. The price certainly doesn't hurt either

Brent

This is an exaggerated drawing of why a longer tie rod (to a point) will give you less bump steer throughout the range of suspension travel. This is also the reason your tires are severely toed in when you first install a suspension lift on your Xterra.

Ideally your control arm and tie rod would be the same length and follow the same arc, but that is rarely possible.

I'm not picking sides just pointing out the facts.

Well, I would love to keep out of general threads and concentrate on building parts, but this misleading information must stop. Thanks to some people on XOC, the things being said in this thread were brought to my attention.

So Steve from Calimini bolts a new steering system on his project X as soon as he receives the parts from the forging house. He sends the photos to Xterraparts.com and now these photos are being distributed over the net and it's "The Future of Nissan Steering".

Olegkha:

"I think it's understandable that SLR did not test their system offroad...SLR did absolutly no testing, or they would know that their bushings wear out after first wheeling trip"

Did we not already cover these points in the last thread ("SLR CL" under Manufacturers' Row)?? Apparently you know Michael Rubenstein and must have heard "their bushings wear out after the first wheeling trip". I have already gone over SLR's testing, so there is no reason for me to waste my time going over it again.

We have tested with Nissan's Delrin bushings with SLR's idler arm brace, not a Calmini brace. Michael is currently running a Calmini brace. I do not know how Calmini has designed their brace and the tolerances that they are using (punching production style or laser cutting), but I assure you the tolerances maintained with the SLR brace would not see the slop that Michael has experienced.

We sent Michael new centerated bronze bushings free of cost by Next Day Air to take the place of the OE Delrin bushings. All SLR steering kits will now have this new bronze idler bushing. We also have a new 4130 heat treated idler arm OE replacement shaft that will take care of the problems of Nissan's junk material.

The SLR steering design is simply an OE replacement steering setup. It will not change your OE Nissan designed steering system. We simply redesigned Nissan's system with wear points and to make your idler arm be in double shear.

Welding to OE Nissan forging??



Welding will not change the strength or the integrity of the forging. We are aware of the price and the complaints we have received, but let me assure you that ours will be the last steering system that you will buy. I will stand behind my system 110%. I will also have a budget-minded system available within a few weeks.

Calmini McMillan:

Lighten up..photos does not mean real time testing.

"Especially because he has no first hand knowldge of how it works. Nor do I think he has the technical qualifications to make such statements. Especially after the stupid remark he made about needing the idler arm brace on the SLR system to help the bushings. That tells me how little he really knows."

Any idler brace will help the Nissan OE Delrin idler bushings. Have your idler in double shear or captured will help reduce movement on the OE Delrin bushing.

I would not discredit Andy's points in the least bit. I'm really glad to have him using my steering system and love the real time testing. SedonaX has also made some great points.

Once again, lighten up. This board is open to people's first-hand views and opinions.

I'm not trying to start a contest of words between SLR & Calmini or SLR & Calmini McMillan. I would just like the community to be informed with the proper information. I think that Calmini has really stepped it up in the Nissan industry, which is great. I love competition. I can't wait until we get a chance to test the capabilities of the Calmini components SLR style.

I think that the Calmini system is a good start and a few refinements should be made before production.

Thanks for the support and interest in SLR.

>>>SLR

...sintered bronze bushings...

So... how's climberRN's custom steering set up holding up?

I did get the opportunity to drive his truck on and off road and noticed no difference between my stock steering and his custom one.

-Tarex

SLR: Bottom hole in calmini brace is correct size, there is no play there

I seen Mike's Truck, and the bolt that goes throught the brace and the arm had NO play in it

so the only thing that F...ed up were bushings

If you did as much testing as you SAD you did, You would have the same problem, but your desert runs should not be counted as Full Range of tests !
So as far as i am consern You DID NOT test your system.

Ian:

"...sintered bronze bushings..."

You're a lifesaver. :rolleyes:

Olegkha:

"SLR: Bottom hole in calmini brace is correct size, there is no play there

I seen Mike's Truck, and the bolt that goes throught the brace and the arm had NO play in it

so the only thing that F...ed up were bushings

If you did as much testing as you SAD you did, You would have the same problem, but your desert runs should not be counted as Full Range of tests !
So as far as i am consern You DID NOT test your system."

What??

DesertRAT:

Happy Wheeling!

Hey Spens
Let me expain to you AGAIN

You are saying that its probably Calmini brace that couse the problem on Mikes set up

The bottom hole in Calmini brace is correct size, and ones you put that bolt through brace hole, and tighten it into the arm, it DOES NOT MOVE, as you can see in the movie clip that you have posted from Mikes website

There was no play in that bolt on mikes truck
ALL the play was in bushings of the idle arm

If you would test your steering Like you sad you tested it , you would see the same problem , and you would have fixed it before sending it out , but i gues running on sand did not put enough strain on those bushing to destroy them

so please stop saying that you tested SLR steering system!

I am looking into geting a steering system for my truck , but i would not be trusting my life to some prick who LIY to every one , just to sell his product

AC or Calmini are geting my $ for the lift
and some one else is getng my $ for steering system

You no good speak english. You no sense neither?

And your point is ... ?

Oleg, what do you care anyway? We all know you can be highly opinionated, but step aside and let those with some direct knowledge and/or association with the parts in question hash it out. Your speculation isn't helping.

Brent

Oleg no like Spence...

Oleg smash.

Oleg say SLR steering bad!

Carlton say Calmini steering good without testing.

Chris buy SLR steering system for self and make own determination.

Chris post results for other cave dwellers.

Unga Bunga...

That was pretty good.

that is pretty funny. give him a break, he's just an opinionated russian.

My first name is CARLTON not CALMINI and if you are going to be that childish as to make a "spoof" of my name like you "made a spoof" and copyright infringment of CALMINI's mission statement then I must say that is not very professional of you.

In no way were my comments directed toward SLR. They were completely toward this Desert Rat person. The first hand information that he has on the AC and SLR systems is great and welcomed by all here. But speculation about something he knows nothing about is nothing more than propaganda.

Great... Then why did you even post in this thread? Does this have anything to do with the info on where yours and AC's UCA's are made?

So, would you agree that your comments on the Calmini system are also speculation at this point, Carlton? When you get the system bolted on, the information would then be first hand. Maybe all speculation should be haulted and only first hand information posted. That would keep everyone from being given mis-information.

I would have to go back and read everything that I posted but I would say that what I did post was factual. Check below..

Calmini is a more simple design. No core parts to deal with, fewer braces...

The Calmini system is less expensive..

By virtue of longer end links there will be less bump steer than the factory or SLR system..

Will it feel differant than a stock system. Sure. Will it be a bad thing. Who knows till we get them on the street/trail..

Calmini is NOT using a MOOG idler arm (says so in the information given)..

About the EOE tie rod adjustors.. Calmini uses longer ones so the EOE's will not fit (get a ruler)..

I spoke with Calmini and they are going to release a new idler arm brace..

About the need for the steering stablizer. (I suppose that is speculation and we will have to wait to see how that turns out)..

The deal with the idler arm brace. Ask someone in the industry what its purpose is. I bet you they will tell you what I said earlier (I asked before I typed)..

All the other bantor in this thread is not really concerning the topic at hand....

Did I miss anything?

I think you covered it.

As for the idler arm brace, you could have specified who to ask. I take Spencer's comment as not agreeing. I suppose you got your information from Calmini. Different systems, different responses.

I hope that the Calmini system works for those of you who choose to purchase it. I know first hand how annoying it is to keep throwing money out the door on centerlinks, etc. For us, the SLR system is working great and so far no complaints. I think the thing to concentrate on is the fact that there are solutions now.

Actually I spoke to several people in the industry before I typed my response to Desert Rat.(Not just the folks at CALMINI)