|
0 registered (),
162
Guests and
0
Spiders online. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
#90030 - 24/08/04 09:51 AM
Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Ok before last week I was certain I was going to get an ARB or Vlair compressor.
Well last week we took a trip with a couple of guys and Troy brought along a powertank he recieved on loan from Pangaea Expeditions. Well to say the least I was amazed, holy crap, jaw dropping.
It was a 15lb system with a coil hose and gauge. We played with it a bunch and found many uses for the compressed air (Ian you should see how hot the coals on the fire got with this baby). We messed with it for two days and aired up 12 tires from 16lbs i about 12min. Hardly moved the gauge.
So now it is a shut case the tank kicked the compressors ass and lasts a LONG time.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#90032 - 24/08/04 10:04 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Originally posted by Alpine Spirit:
Ok before last week I was certain I was going to get an ARB or Vlair compressor.
Well last week we took a trip with a couple of guys and Troy brought along a powertank he recieved on loan from Pangaea Expeditions. Well to say the least I was amazed, holy crap, jaw dropping.
It was a 15lb system with a coil hose and gauge. We played with it a bunch and found many uses for the compressed air (Ian you should see how hot the coals on the fire got with this baby). We messed with it for two days and aired up 12 tires from 16lbs i about 12min. Hardly moved the gauge.
So now it is a shut case the tank kicked the compressors ass and lasts a LONG time. I am going to go the powertank route. Only thing I worry about is working here in Thermal, how does intense heat affect a C02 tank? We are talking HOT. I don't know how hot a car gets on the inside when it's 120f outside.. but I know it's up there. Anybody know? I could alwayse just leave it in the garage, and just take it on runs. What about elevation change? I regularly go from sea level to 5k or better. Any effect? Thanks! (sorry Alpine, didn't mean to highjack your thread) ~Woof!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90033 - 24/08/04 10:13 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Only costs a couple of bucks to have it filled. And it looks like it will last MONTHS. That is what I worried about but we blew CO2 everywhere and the gauge just barely moved. So I think it is well worth it. PS: You can run air tools off this thing too. Thread hi jacker  j/k Altitude we watched and it came from 6000ft to nearly 12000 and no problems and once again the gauge did not move. Heat I have no clue, I have to worry about cold up to 50 below.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90034 - 24/08/04 10:27 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 14/10/00
Posts: 1219
Loc: Kansas
|
I have a 10 lbs. CO2 tank. When the tank is full and the liquid turns mostly to air, I have about 1500 psi. The tank can go up to 3000 psi before the regulator releases the gas. So if my tank was in 150F of heat, the tank should hold all its gas. Your regulator release valve will blow before your tank ever would.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90035 - 24/08/04 10:31 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
KCX how often do you use it & how often do you fill it?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90036 - 24/08/04 10:38 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
|
I decided on the CO2 tank as well...it can run lockers and air tools just as well or better than a compressor it seems...Got a real good deal on a brand new 20lb aluminum tank for only $69 including the first fill of CO2...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90037 - 24/08/04 10:50 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 1299
Loc: Yorktown, VA USA
|
Originally posted by spalind:
I decided on the CO2 tank as well...it can run lockers and air tools just as well or better than a compressor it seems...Got a real good deal on a brand new 20lb aluminum tank for only $69 including the first fill of CO2... Where did you find that? I have been looking for a tank as well. Mostly for air-tools, but it would be nice to inflate with as well.
_________________________
jerseydevi1
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " -Thomas Jefferson
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90038 - 24/08/04 10:59 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Get CO2, you'll love it. Compressors are slow to air up tires and forget about running air tools.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90039 - 24/08/04 11:14 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
|
Originally posted by jerseydevi1: Originally posted by spalind:
[b]I decided on the CO2 tank as well...it can run lockers and air tools just as well or better than a compressor it seems...Got a real good deal on a brand new 20lb aluminum tank for only $69 including the first fill of CO2... Was at a welding store up her in MA...I can get their # for ya if ya want it...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90040 - 24/08/04 11:37 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 682
Loc: Portland, OR
|
If you have a shop that is close by that can fill up the tank for $15, then the PT is great. I failed to check into this before ordering my PT 3 years ago. There was only 1 place on my side of town that would fill it up, and they wanted $35 !! I ended up selling it and got a portable Extreme Air (oasis) and that sucker doesn't mess around! 100% duty cycle too! http://www.offroadtoystore.com/Merchant2...CAT-OBA-COMP-EO
_________________________
confused previous X owner/then a previous Rover owner/ back to an X owner
07 Avalanche OR X 4x4
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90041 - 24/08/04 11:44 AM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I built my own system, more similar to the Outback Air setup than the Powertank, with a static regulator (rather than gauges and adjustable regluator - given that I will only be using it to air up, and occasional air tools). With a new 10lb CO2 tank, Powertank ballistic hose, regulator and connectors, etc. total cost was just under $200. Fillup was about $16. If anyone is interested I'd be happy to post links to sources of material. Edit: I was curious, and added it up. Total cost was $173.59 - which includes a can of truck bed coating (bottom 6" of tank).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90042 - 24/08/04 12:44 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13694
Loc: Baltimore, MD
|
I've got a 10 lb tank, and it's great. I've used it more for air tools than anything so far, in my freakin' parking lot no less. It did come in quite handy 'wheeling to re-seat the bead on another X though, and of course there's no better way to air up tires... Costs me about $13 to get it filled, and it can be done for less but I haven't found a place close-by that is cheaper. It's like synthetic oil, it may cost more, but how often do you have to spend the extra? Not enough to care... Originally posted by Alpine Spirit:
you should see how hot the coals on the fire got with this baby Not that I don't believe you, but how can CO2 make coals glow? Adding oxygen would do that, CO2 should smother it, after all there are fire extinguishers that are loaded with it... As for pressure/safety issues, already covered: http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=003083 http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=002468
_________________________
Tip: see if your question has already been answered before asking it. Try our handy-dandy search tool!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90044 - 24/08/04 12:56 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 1299
Loc: Yorktown, VA USA
|
Originally posted by spalind: Originally posted by jerseydevi1: [b] Originally posted by spalind:
[b]I decided on the CO2 tank as well...it can run lockers and air tools just as well or better than a compressor it seems...Got a real good deal on a brand new 20lb aluminum tank for only $69 including the first fill of CO2... Where did you find that? I have been looking for a tank as well. Mostly for air-tools, but it would be nice to inflate with as well.[/b] That would be great e-mail or PM me. I guess you could even post here if you wanted.
_________________________
jerseydevi1
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. " -Thomas Jefferson
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90045 - 24/08/04 01:29 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13694
Loc: Baltimore, MD
|
Yes, being able to adjust the pressure is a good thing. Most air tools spec about 90 psi, but that's barely enough to seat a tire bead. Crank it up to 150 or more and you can seat a bead pretty easily, not to mention your tires air up quicker.
Brent
_________________________
Tip: see if your question has already been answered before asking it. Try our handy-dandy search tool!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90046 - 24/08/04 01:33 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 30/01/03
Posts: 3238
Loc: Windham, NH
|
Originally posted by OffroadX: Originally posted by Alpine Spirit:
[b]you should see how hot the coals on the fire got with this baby
[/b]then why would exhaling on fire increase the flames as well...considering most of the air we breath is nitrogen and then much of the oxygen we inhale would be exhaled as co2--and yet we all go and blow heavily on a small fire to get it going....perhaps the wind our breath creates or that the jet of co2 from the powertank or whatever acts like a bellows and pushes the oxygen rich air into the fire thus causing the larger flame---OK, that was way off the current subject.....
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90047 - 24/08/04 02:10 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Originally posted by spalind: Originally posted by OffroadX: [b] Originally posted by Alpine Spirit:
[b]you should see how hot the coals on the fire got with this baby Not that I don't believe you, but how can CO2 make coals glow? Adding oxygen would do that, CO2 should smother it, after all there are fire extinguishers that are loaded with it... [/b] Yes at first we could not believe it either, I mean geez this is pure CO2 coming out of the tank it should kill the fire was the first theory. But after a few minutes it basically after it leaves the nozzle it pushes the air to the fire and makes the coals hotter, sounds odd but that is what happens.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90049 - 24/08/04 03:35 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Yes, being able to adjust the pressure is a good thing. Most air tools spec about 90 psi, but that's barely enough to seat a tire bead. Crank it up to 150 or more and you can seat a bead pretty easily, not to mention your tires air up quicker. The static regulator came from here: Williams Balloons CO2 regulator The static pressure I had configured was 150 lbs., which is effectively delivering 120 lbs of pressure. The only thing I haven't done yet is to reseat a bead, but I don't anticipate problems at this pressure. Perhaps a compression strap belted around the tire might be necessary, but it should do the job (and is one of the highlights, at the same pressure, pointed out by Outback Air). I wanted to keep complexity and cost down, and not have to worry about banging gauges. I could be wrong, but about the only thing this setup will not do is run lockers.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90050 - 24/08/04 03:50 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Only thing I worry about is working here in Thermal, how does intense heat affect a C02 tank? We are talking HOT. I don't know how hot a car gets on the inside when it's 120f outside.. but I know it's up there.
Anybody know? I could alwayse just leave it in the garage, and just take it on runs. This is from Outback Air's website, link below: http://www.okieweb.com/outbackequipped/safety.htm CAUTION! – Please Read This Carefully!
. A CO2 cylinder is filled with liquid CO2 by weight. At the time of fill the temperature of the charge is extremely cold and the pressure is around 100 psi.
. When a fully charged CO2 cylinder warms up to room temperature (70 F), the pressure inside the cylinder increases to 837 psi.
. When the same cylinder reaches 87.9 F the entire charge becomes a gas no matter what the pressure. A fully charged CO2 cylinder at 87.9 F will have an internal pressure of approximately 1100 psi.
. At 120 F the same cylinder will have an internal pressure of nearly 2000 psi. This cylinder at 120 oF now has an internal pressure greater than the marked service pressure of a cylinder that is properly filled, not overfilled.
. At 155 F the same cylinder will reach a pressure of 3000 psi, a pressure great enough activate the safety vent on the valve, venting the CO2 charge.
. As you can see, when the temperature of the fully charged cylinder increases, the pressure increases. A temperature of 155 F, at which the safety would actuate and vent the contents of the cylinder, is not that high of a temperature. This temperature could easily be reached in many different environments (i.e. in a shed or a vehicle on a hot day, etc.). Unexpected venting of a cylinder through its safety can be startling to say the least, potentially leading to accidents, property damage, or personal injury. Coming into contact with the venting of the CO2 charge of a cylinder can cause personal injury such as frostbite.
When using, handling, transporting, and storing a CO2 cylinder always be aware of the temperature to which the cylinder will be exposed. This is not just the temperature the cylinder is exposed to at that point in time, but also the maximum temperature that the cylinder will be exposed to at any time in it's service. Outback Equipped, along with the CGA, recommends that CO2 cylinders not be used at temperatures exceeding 120 F. The CO2 tank I bought has a service pressure of about 1800PSI, and has been tested to 3000PSI. If the tank stays in the garage unless needed, I would say that you would have a very slim chance of approaching dangerous temperatures.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90051 - 24/08/04 04:16 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13694
Loc: Baltimore, MD
|
Originally posted by spalind:
then why would exhaling on fire increase the flames as well...considering most of the air we breath is nitrogen and then much of the oxygen we inhale would be exhaled as co2--and yet we all go and blow heavily on a small fire to get it going....perhaps the wind our breath creates or that the jet of co2 from the powertank or whatever acts like a bellows and pushes the oxygen rich air into the fire thus causing the larger flame---OK, that was way off the current subject..... Actually, there's still PLENTY of O2 in the air we exhale, otherwise mouth-to-mouth resuscitation wouldn't do much good now would it? The tank is releasing pure CO2. Still, I guess it "stirs" the ambient air and brings in more O2 with it anyway. Brent
_________________________
Tip: see if your question has already been answered before asking it. Try our handy-dandy search tool!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90052 - 24/08/04 04:41 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 25/05/02
Posts: 2146
Loc: Knoxville, Tn
|
Originally posted by XHawk: Only thing I worry about is working here in Thermal, how does intense heat affect a C02 tank? We are talking HOT. I don't know how hot a car gets on the inside when it's 120f outside.. but I know it's up there.
Anybody know? I could alwayse just leave it in the garage, and just take it on runs.
http://www.okieweb.com/outbackequipped/safety.htm
CAUTION! – Please Read This Carefully!
. A CO2 cylinder is filled with liquid CO2 by weight. At the time of fill the temperature of the charge is extremely cold and the pressure is around 100 psi.
. When a fully charged CO2 cylinder warms up to room temperature (70 F), the pressure inside the cylinder increases to 837 psi.
. When the same cylinder reaches 87.9 F the entire charge becomes a gas no matter what the pressure. A fully charged CO2 cylinder at 87.9 F will have an internal pressure of approximately 1100 psi.
. At 120 F the same cylinder will have an internal pressure of nearly 2000 psi. This cylinder at 120 oF now has an internal pressure greater than the marked service pressure of a cylinder that is properly filled, not overfilled.
. At 155 F the same cylinder will reach a pressure of 3000 psi, a pressure great enough activate the safety vent on the valve, venting the CO2 charge.
. As you can see, when the temperature of the fully charged cylinder increases, the pressure increases. A temperature of 155 F, at which the safety would actuate and vent the contents of the cylinder, is not that high of a temperature. This temperature could easily be reached in many different environments (i.e. in a shed or a vehicle on a hot day, etc.). Unexpected venting of a cylinder through its safety can be startling to say the least, potentially leading to accidents, property damage, or personal injury. Coming into contact with the venting of the CO2 charge of a cylinder can cause personal injury such as frostbite.
When using, handling, transporting, and storing a CO2 cylinder always be aware of the temperature to which the cylinder will be exposed. This is not just the temperature the cylinder is exposed to at that point in time, but also the maximum temperature that the cylinder will be exposed to at any time in it's service. Outback Equipped, along with the CGA, recommends that CO2 cylinders not be used at temperatures exceeding 120 F. Wow, good info. How hot does a car sitting in the 100F sun get? 150+?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90053 - 24/08/04 05:16 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Member
Registered: 24/03/03
Posts: 1252
Loc: Sunny Florida
|
depends if it's in direct sunlight i would guess? get a cheapo thermometer from wally world by a company called Accurite or get one similar. anyways when you get one that stores the highest temps reset it place it in the truck and find out how hot it got that day. if you have the ventshades on the windows, leave you're windows cracked to let the heat out, i usually get about 112 inside the truck down here in the heat of the day, i park in the sun too.
_________________________
Up The Irons!!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#90054 - 24/08/04 05:27 PM
Re: Powertank vs. Compressor
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
How hot does a car sitting in the 100F sun get? 150+? Well, that was a damned depressing subject to search - results were either related to infant or pet deaths. Here's an interesting graph. * Study of temperature rise in enclosed cars on 16 dates between May 16 and Aug. 8, 2002. * Ambient temperature were between 72 and 96 degrees F.  Taken from this website: http://ggweather.com/heat/ and pretty much confirmed in another: http://www.injuryprevention.org/states/la/hotcars/hotcars.htm In both cases (and others - a google search brings up tons of results) the most surprising information was the fact that cracking the windows did little to keep temperature down. Reading the studies will also describe the rapid increase in temperature, which was also alarming. Good stuff to know!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
Previous Topic
Index