What is it with people and Jeeps?! Everybody thinks they are the "godsend" of 4wd society. To be honest, I've seen lots of Jeeps in my off-roading adventures, some impressing, and some losing. I've been on the rubicon, in a friends jeep, and seen the numerous mods the guys do to them. I know people who swear by them and never drive anything else in their life.

I still think they are way beyond overrated! They are unreliable, require lots of upkeep, drive like utter crap, for the most part based off a car chassis (exception wrangler) and don't really drive that well off-road in stock form :rolleyes: ...

Storytime... I was at a local 4wd trail called "twin peaks" with my old 95 4runner. I was at the base of the last stretch uphill (pretty knarly, huge staggered ruts, 45 degree slope). Put the bad boy into 4lo and crawled slowly up it. Missed the traction route two times, but made it up the hill without giving up.

Next up was a fairly modded Jeep wrangler (4.0L). Rear locker, 3 inch lift, sliders, 31 inch tires and winch. The guy tried 9 times to get up the hill and couldn't even get past the first 10 feet! I'm not sure what the deal was, but it was the happiest day of my life

Anyway, on the way back down, being a smartass, I asked if he wanted a ride up in my truck to atleast see what the view was like at the top. He impolitely refused :p Worst yet, his girlfriend was in the right seat, totally embarrased! hahahahahaha

sorry, had to rant.

The longer wheelbase in your 4runner is better for climbing. If you've ever watched motorcycle hill clibers that's why they have to extended swingarms.

Axle

But still, a locked and lifted Jeep should be more capable in most situations.

Maybe the guy had 31 inch street tires or forgot all about the front hubs?

Actually, a lift hurts you on a hill climb...the higher center of gravity biases weight rearwards when going up hill.

A longer wheelbase typically helps to climb by distributing the weight bias.

This can overwhelm the lockered tires limits of adhesion, so both tires spin. this can make the rear crab out, which on a hill, puts you off camber pretty quickly if you are not careful.

Driver control makes more of a difference off road than you can imagine. A good driver can usually do more with a stocker than a tyro can with a lifted lockered monster.

I jeeped for years, more than I've X'd, by decades...so I'm pretty familiar with the strengths and limitations.

A stock wrangler can pretty much kick a stock X's ass on most trails. The X's advantages are more apparent if you had to bring stuff with you other than repair tools.

Love the Xterra but for off roading it will never match a well done Jeep with the same type of mods as the Xterra. The X is more of an all around trail rig with serious short falls ie, small underpowered engine, IFS, rear leafs under the axle and a longer wheelbase. Most of wheelin is the driver but the vehicle helps too!!!

Tim

I just sold my jeep.... this one was a 1980 cj-5 with 5 inch lift and 33's, she was an animal in the mud. Previously I had a 1981 cj-7 that was all fiberglass, 3 inch lift and 32's she would go anywhere... I once buried the front tires coming down off a hill in 2wd... literally have to dig to find the tires, locked the hubs and she popped right out like it was a puddle. I had to sell the jeep when i went away to school the 60 mph max was just to low for the haul back and forth.. but since i've seriously thought of tracking down the guy i sold it to and asking for it back.

Everything has thier pros and cons.

Being able to do serious trails really depends on the driver. I have taken my X places that other guys in Jeeps haven't been able to go.

I now own a lifted Rubicon. There is no way that the most modded X could take the same lines I can on a hard trail. Can they make it up the trail? Probably. There is no way they would be able to take the same lines I can in the Jeep. The X just has it's limitations. (as with any other vehicle)

We ran John Bull last weekend (Big Bear, CA) The X's made it down the trail. They had a lot of problems on obstacles that I just walked right up.

I am not bashing the X. I loved mine and will always be a BIG supporter of them. I am just saying.

Jason

Are you on Rubicon Owner's Forum?

No, I belong to a Jeep club though. I still go out on every run with SCCX. We don't descriminate because of the vehicle you drive. Everyone is welcome. Plus they are a great group of people.

Jason

It's worth a trip over to the ROF forum. Much better signal to noise ratio than JU or JF.

Sometimes its not about the equipment, sometimes it falls in luck and experience.

There's no doubt, Jeeps are great vehicles, when they're not having problems. The workmanship isn't there, but in my opinion Nissan is lagging in workmanship as well. My best friend's '91 Wrangler was an absolute monster off-road with just BFG AT/KO's and no other mods. The super low gears and short wheel base are a pretty nice combination on the trail. Unfortunately, it died at 90k miles, where my Tacoma went almost 250k, and the guy who bought it said he has 300k+ now and it still drives like a champ!

Of course, so much of what a truck does or can do is up to the driver. In the Mojave desert, SCCX was held up due to a breakdown, and a few trucks were blocking a trail. A guy in a modified Jeep tried to take a bypass. He spun his tires and could not gain traction on this easy but loose hill, and could not get up it. I told him he should put it into 2nd and then try, since he was obviously overtorqued. He grumbled that he knew what the hell he was doing, and I think he was pissed that our "soccer mom mobiles" were blocking the trail. He finally gave up and we moved all the X's off the trail for him.

I've done the same thing, in a Land Rover D90. Tried to go up a hill that was no problem in my Tacoma, just put it in 1st and go. In the Landy, I got half way up and spun tires, lost all traction. I backed down the hill, tried again, and the same thing happened. I couldn't figure it out, until I put it in to 3rd (!) and the Rover went up like it was born to do it. Again, driver error. That guy you came upon on the trail had that same problem; his Jeep had not become an extension of his feet yet.

Jeeps really were a godsend to the 4WD community, without them, there would be no 4WD community. They've had more influence on our hobby than any other vehicle. Throughout their history, they've been affordable, and until very recently, nearly bulletproof.

And in the hands of someone like Jason "Loop Choke", they can do some amazing stuff. Dude knows how to drive.

I don't see why people on here talk about how unreliable Jeeps are. How many old, old CJs do you see still running around? Go on the Jeep boards and there are fewer issue posts than here...and there are a LOT more Jeeps out there. The I6 is a very, very reliable engine.

Maybe you've never really been 4 wheeling.
I wouldn't call the worst Jeep ever made a monster off-road in stock form.

You haven't read this thread have you?

Yeah I take issue with the "most modded X' statement. Gears and both lockers in an X with a decent driver will follow or lead a Rubicon anywhere.

That said the Rubicon is the best off road vehicle right OFF THE LOT.

How long it lasts is anybodys guess.

Yes, I've been 4 wheeling, and I was mistaken, it was an '89 YJ w/ the 4.2 inline 6 (carbed), and I wouldn't call the YJ the worst Jeep ever made. Did it flood when off-camber? Yes. Did it have mad reliability problems? Yes. Jeep had a ton of quality control problems in the '80s, I'll concede that the AMC/Iacocca years were not the good times, but it wasn't as bad as the Cherokee of the same era (Hello, Peugeot drive train, saggy unibody?). And yes, for a moderate off-roader, the YJ has more potential due to SWB and low gears than most 4 wheelers need. Is it a monster? Maybe I exaggerated a touch, but it was very capable....especially when it ran. (ahem!)

These impressions I have of Jeep quality are the very reasons I don't own one. Yes, I understand that there are reliable Jeeps out there. But they're not Toyotas.

the early year wranglers were crap compared to the CJs before it and the wranglers that have replaced it. Both in capablity and quailty(and thats saying a lot since the CJ's had to be fixed almost daily)

I would take CJ-7 anyday over an old wrangler

We only discriminate when we are taking group pictures at an Xterra event.

I think that will change. :p

Since Jason is running for the new SCCXterra board of directors... when he no longer owns a Xterra... I guess anything is possible.

Since his SCCX sig line is "Follow me... if you can". :rolleyes:

Maybe he can be the Xterra trail boss. He can show his followers the Xterra's limitations.

No. SCCX website was down. Came over here an read how your Rubicon can out do Xterra's. I am not bashing you. It just brought back bad memories of a certain vehicle owner who was going to "school" me with his solid axle vehicle on the Rubicon Trail. Funny thing though he never made it to the trail in his vehicle. It broke down on the freeway and I towed it 5 miles on the freeway to the next exit. I let him drive for 2 hours on the Rubicon. When we got back he bragged on XOC, SCCX and The Unofficial Xterra Board about how he did the Rubicon. He had promised to let me post first. His post never mentioned me or the fact it was my Xterra. That same person took a group of Xterra's into a canyon which was beyond their vehicle capability. He then left them overnight and went home.

IMHO a XTERRA club should have policy decided by XTERRA owners. When we started SCCX in December 1999 we liberally allowed any vehicle to join us. Frontiers were considered honorary members. Anyone should be allowed to go on runs. The "crap" I started on SCCX was in protest of a Xterra owner quitting the board because he did not like the direction the club was going. The "crap" I started caused two board members who no longer owned Xterra's(one because he rolled it) to dissolve the board of directors. The two then announce they had been planning a Extreme Rock Crawling Club anyway. People blame me for the webmaster giving a 72 hour notice to shut down the website. :rolleyes: Now he has more time to set up their Extreme Rock Crawling Club since they own vehicles together.

I have NO problem with ANY non-Xterra owner being involved with the club as much as they want. I have a PROBLEM with ANY non-XTERRA owner setting policy. When my Xterra was sold I intended to resign from the BOD and then become a honorary member.

As far as what people have said about me making "Negative Comments" on SCCX... I have the resolve to say and do what I think is best for the club. The indecision in club WRITTEN policy hopeful will be resolved by the soon to be elected 9+ member board of directors.

One good thing about having(an paying for) the toll free SCCX hotline for four years.... is I know I am not alone... in my feelings about the direction the club has been going.

In my personal life I have literally fought City Hall and the Police for inaction and flawed policy.

1) 30 years of broken curbs, sidewalks, and gutters. After a year of a very public fight two streets down from a $30 million city hall have been replaced!

2) A year ago a street down from me had 150 cars travel on it per day. It now has over 1,200 cars per day looking for movie theatre parking. Literally smoking crack in their cars before going stoned to a movie. Still fighting this one.

3) I fought the Police to change a insane policy that was about making money and ignored protecting children and adults. I need to update my website... but after over a year of a very public fight... I got policy changed! http://www.culvercity.tv/

I imagine the City Council and Police Department thinks I started "crap".

As far as you not liking me anymore... you are entitled to state how you feel about me. I respect your right to your feelings. I also have the resolve to state how I feel about the people and policies of the club I helped found.

Give me a call on the SCCX toll-free hotline. (866) 2-XTERRA

Cary

I had a feeling this would happen.

Dude, sounds like you have a lot of personal issues you need to work out. longerurlforthosewhonee dtocompensatefortinyissuesbetweentheirlegsandneedtoacttough . Or are you just trying to say in a roundabout way that you really don't like Jeeps (which is what this thread is about)?

Your tiny url was longer then the actual url.

Bought my first Jeep 16 years ago.

Maybe y'all should rename your fucking club.
If you allow any vehicle to join, it's not really an Xterra club now is it ?

Ian, I have to admit, I've never seen anyone with your ability to be so smug and smarmy with a fucking keyboard. I'm not ragging, I actually respect that. So much inflection is lost in the written word, but you really have a talent at expressing what a giant prick you are. Again, not ragging, just giving props, I respect succinctness in writing.

(The following opinion is tongue-in-cheek, is only half-true, and is not necessarily meant to be taken seriously.)

As for our club, yes it should be renamed. Fuck the Xterra. There I said it. Fuck the Xterra. There's enough members and people interested in four-wheeling that SCCX could drop the Xterra thing altogether, and take in the Four-Runners, the Montero Sports, the Tacomas, Frontiers, whatever, without any issues as to who leads, etc. I'm not trying to boss you around, I'm just saying the option is there. Personally, I've eschewed clubs altogether. I've embraced vehicular anarchy, and in my soul search I have found the following gem of information:

There's no club like no club.

I bought a 4x4 to avoid the drama of everyday life. To escape. To explore.

It's funny, SCCX is chock full of really good, really easygoing, really genuine people, but you wouldn't know it by reading a (small yet vocal) portion of the website. So, it's not like I stopped wanting to be involved because I didn't like the people, and I didn't do it because I have a problem with any particular member. And chances are I'll end up going on a few runs. And it's an absolute certainty that I'll end up seeing some members in other social situations, including 4-wheeling. Hell, I may change my mind about the whole thing tomorrow.

It's just that I have to deal with such serious parameters in my work and personal life ("Don't slap the client", "Don't fuck the babysitter", "Don't shoot the television"), the last thing I want to hear is Don't, Don't, Don't, when I'm trying to be free.

Why not rename the fucking club then ?

Seriously. Southern California Club Xterra (which was so to start with, with the transposed "Club" and "Xterra") sounds pretty much like a club for people who own and drive Xterras.

Why would you have an Xterra club that isn't about Xterras?

Out here in Colorado we have dozens of clubs for all types of vehicles, and they had no problem coming up with names that are interesting, but not misleading. SCCX should have someone smart enough to come up with a new name like Southern California Wheeling and Whining Club.

I sense some PMSing going on, Please More Sex, all of you go get laid and talk this out like calm adults. A name is a name but it should make some sense but hey it is california, the land of fruits and nuts and there are way to damn many of them in my home state, Colorado if you don't know me. My peace had been made now.

Tim

I hope all members decide to vent their disagreements in private or on the SCCX board, no need to give Ian or anybody else for that matter more reason to talk shit about our club. We all know what the club is about so fuck evrybody else's opinions.

As long as I don't keeping getting requests from non Xterra or Nissan owners to attend events like goneMOAB or GOX, I don't mind.

I guess I'll never understand why an Xterra club isn't an Xterra club.

The land of fruits and nuts, yes, and damn good ones too. Enjoy those oranges and almonds. And dairy products, meat and fish, vegetables, grains, rice, wood and paper, computers, cars, oil, films and TV shows, books, manufactured and durable goods, aerospace and defense products, medical research, chemical research, and especially enjoy all that Federal Revenue that California generates which props up every other state in this Greatest Nation on Earth. If we're so stupid, quit coming to us like we're your fucking ATM. The day that Colorado can match even our least productive County in terms of product and revenue generation, y'all can talk all you want. Until then, shut the fuck up and drink your Coors.

Yeah, there's a mass exodus from California to Colorado...people must be going there to get away from all the jobs.

Hmmm.. I think if that happened I would be visiting Northern California much more often, wadda ya say NCXC?

Part of the reason I went with the Xterra was the community. Lets not get too interracial here eh?

~Jason

What makes you think that we are not an Xterra club, we have 200 plus users, trolls, active members in the club of which the vast majority are Xterra owners. I would say that at least 90% of our club are Xterra owners with at least another 5% being past Xterra owners who have moved on/up to rigs that are more capable or suitable for their needs. We don't discriminate, if somebody wants to join us that doesn't have an Xterra who are we to deprive them from joining us. Same reason that you allow people on the XTERRA OWNERS CLUB that have Frontiers, Jeeps, Ford F-150, WRXs and so on. The Xterra is our shared common interest. SCCX has really diversified, we now not only get together for offroading but some of us have backpacked together, gone target shooting, mtn. biked the list goes on and on, a few of us have even competed in Xterra events. Whats your definition of an Xterra club?

Wow the SCCX soap opera continues

Not really, just one (very loud) guy...

Jason,

Call me on the toll-free SCCX Hotline:
(866) 2-XTERRA

Sincerely,

Cary

You're an Xterra club.
Spell it with me... X...T...E...R...R...A...

Descrimination has nothing to do with it, you should just change your name and make a generic 4 wheeling club, because you are not an Xterra club.

So I guess since NJAX lets Jorge do stuff with them, they arn't an Xterra club as well?

Just saying..

Cary...

I never had a real problem with you.. I think you know that, It was more club policies and lack of leadership.

I don't really mean to say I told you so... but, if you ever want to go hit some trails drop me an email or PM.

sorry this was just getting annoying

Xtoolbox(Brian).... you can say his name.

sorry but you sound like your in a harry potter film "he who must not be named".

I don't know the whole story... mainly because you guys have apparently treated this blow up just like the one with me and deleted every bit of ugliness from the forums... but if it is a simple fact of Cary Questioning why Brian makes policy decisions when its been almost(over?) a year since he even owned an Xterra, I think the whole fucking club needs a serious reality check.

Cary and Lory are two great people. BOD members that seemed to actually give a shit about the club and its members instead of their own egos.

My opinion isn't worth shit to you i know that... but as one of the old school SCCX members, I have to say you have no business on the BOD, neither did Brian, some of you need to look to AZXC if your thinking of restructuring. they have a clue how to organize a club.

Oh well...

too bad we can't all rewind 4.5 years... it was fun back then...

Now you're nitpicking...

Jorge is one member, who was a very enthusiastic Xterra owner. He designed and maintains their web site, puts together dozens of videos, and has driven thousands of miles to GOX and goneMOAB events. His Xterra died, and maybe he'll move on, maybe he won't.

SCCX is open to all off-road-capable vehicles. You guys just let anyone join, and that makes SCCX not an Xterra club.

Like talking to a fucking wall here...

You know you want me there...

What buisness is it of yours what we do? I do not understand all of this. If it doesn't affect you, leave it alone. No one (as far as I know) from our club that does not own an X asked to come to Gone or GOX.

Don't worry about what we do.

Jason

Jason let it go....Its not worth it! Now you have Todrick giving his worthless opinion about SCCX. Like I said we know what we do and what SCCX is about we don't need to justify ourselves to anyone else. Let it go!!!

You are right Jaime. This is my last post.

Jason

It does affect me.

I've had 3 requests from SCCX non-Xterra owners to attend GOX, and one got quite upset when I said "no".
Logan wanted to bring his Volvo to goneMOAB.

Since you're not really an Xterra club, and it's none of my business, I'll go ahead and remove your forum from XOC.

Thats cause we have the God Father...

Logan is no longer a part of SCCX. Do not let a few ruin it for all.

Why are you so upset about what we do with our club, Ian? Never once have I told you how to run this site or this club. I value XOC as a place to get info about the Xterra and also just bullshit with people across the country.

I think removing our forum from this site is going a little far. It is your decision however. If you would like to discuss it at all, feel free to call me at 909-615-6468.

Jason

I thought that was your last post...

It was going to be but I just wanted to let everyone know that Logan does not represent our club. I have nothing against you or anyone else on this board. I just don't see how what we do with our club affects you.

Jason

A bit off-topic, but this post already is... I find it very humourous that when viewing XOC, all the ads I get at the bottom from Google are for Subaru's. Talk about club identity crisis. If you guys would stick to talking about Xterra's, this would never happen.

The Google ads are dynamic and based on the content of each page. Right now I see 2 Xterra and 2 Nissan ads.

Yeah, I'm fairly familiar with how they work. This was from the main forums index page. I just found it funny. Looking at the words on the page, I didn't see anything that would trigger Subaru or WRX ads. Does it look at a long-term history of that page, or is it from the current page?

It's done in realtime, and it's fun to watch off-topic threads change the ads.

I remember a weight lifting thread in the Tailgate that mentioned Arnold, and it was all Governor of California ads.

I would assume that Subaru and WRX are getting triggered by the frequency of the word "club" on the main forum page.

We should see if hemoroid cream adds pop up by putting 'burning ass' in the off topic a lot.

Actually, we all completed that trail. It just took a few extra tie-rods and a little extra time.

(I made it through w/o a scratch -actually, I made it through with just a scratch. )

So if I say "boner" or "boobie" a few times, will that change it? Oh wait, it's Yahoo who's doing adult stuff I think. Let's find out.

"boner" or "boobie"
"boner" or "boobie"
"boner" or "boobie"
"boner" or "boobie"
"boner" or "boobie"
"boner" or "boobie"

Ian...please drop me a PM about this when you get a chance so we can talk about it outside the forums. I apologize on behalf of the rest of the club for this ridiculous drama. Thanks.

You're joking, right?

thats funny...

so he is not the organizer of CalX Lowest to Highest This coming weekend?

Trying this again...

Lowest to Highest is seperate from SCCX. Thats Logans trip and he is handling it. Has nothing to do with SCCX.

Fixed it .

9/3-6         CALX5 –Badwater (lowest) to White Mts (highest) – DVNP to Bishop

source: http://www.sccxterra.com/xcalendar.html

I can see how this can be confusing.

yup my bad...
-the calendar listing

-directing people to email him while the board was down for information

-the fact that calx is the name of the annual joint sccx/nccx run

yeah, it was plainly obvious that he is not associated with SCCX... how stupid of me.

Logan isn't even joining the Lowest to Highest trip!

Jason...

C'mon man. You and I know each other. Can you please not add any more to this? It's high school bickering and I know you're above this kind of stuff.

you guys need to get your facts straight:

the thread that was up yeasterday where he said "and CalX this weekend is still on" has been deleted as has the thread that was up two days ago that listed a list of attendees...

But my all time favorit quote on that site right now is this:

the irony there is simply stunning

good luck with all this... it didn't turn out good for either side last time.

Seriously, a bit of organization.... some strong leadership and you will have a nice club.

sorry Krisjon i was in the middle of posting when you posted...

I'm done here... the only reason i jumped in was to hopefully solicate a laugh from anyone else who saw the irony... and also to offer an honest invitation to Cary to go hit the trails some time... SCCX political BS asside.

I simply got side tracked with a couple other issues...

for everyone who doesn't know me because your a newer member of SCCX... im not really an asshole... seriously I'm an OK guy...
I just have a bad habit of holding grudges :p

Sorry if I'm a little slow on the draw - it's been an extremely long work week. Is the irony you're referring to related to others as I'm guessing it is?

Also, thanks for dropping this. I don't care what they say about ya, you're good in my book.

the irony is that Cary(and others) said almost the exact same thing about me...

except instead of being "a cancer" i was a "lunatic with a grenade"

I don't think in either instance the accusations were correct... but then again what could a "lunatic with a greande" know

I am serious about wishing you all good luck... I hope it works out... The only reason I've repeatedly been an Asshole to SCCX is because I was so hurt by the accusations leveled at me when i had the clubs best interest at heart, i figured I might as well do what i was being accused of. At least that way i wasn't being slammed for something i didn't do...

Anyway.. I think I'm done with my vendetta against SCCX... there is really no point if no one is around who remembers what it was all about anyway.

besides, like i said, I was only at it to actually deserve the shit that was laid on me anyway... so now that I am the asshole i was accused of being i will stop.

Did that make sense?

hey and isn't this the most off-topic thread ever.

I don't like Jeeps, that's why I bought an Xterra!

I hear ya, man. It's all good.

I don't like referring to anyone as a cancer. Those who know me know that I'm a pretty nice guy. I'm just frustrated with someone who claims to want to do good for the club and then turns around and dredges up old, dead and buried issues between individuals (and not our club at large), in a large public Xterra forum, and make us all look like a bunch of sniveling high schoolers - when we're clearly not.

You guys still talking... take it to the chat room. :p

Problem resolved. End of story guys, seriously. Thanks for the talk, Cary.

Worse than a chick. Let it rest, damn.

It's all good, Travis. I handled it. Let's not fire things up again and give people reason to respond.

yup... its all good no reason to start a fight where one doesn't exist

I love you guys

UH... so uh... ...ummmm... how about them jeeps!

Jeeps suck.

Just a heads up for those who hate me, it looks like I'll be at the Off-Road Expo on October 10th.

If you can find me, you can kick my ass or buy me beer

Cool... I want to....

buy you a beer.

Have a place to stay? Our home is always open to you. Tina, Jacqueline and I would love to have you guys stay with us. I will even stock the frig with beer.

Better make sure it's Guinness!

Sweet Ian, going with Steve? Are they showing off the SAS there as well?

That's a given.

Doug invited us out for some more testing of the SAS. We'll be staying with him, and dropping by the show on Sunday.

How 'bout both!

Just let me finish the beer first

Great. I'll see you there. Beer or ass-kicking is up to you.

I will be there also, beer in hand. Look forward to meeting you.

Jason

Just don't let him take you Bowling...

And here I am stuck in Korea. Damn.

Axle

Are you staying at Doug's, Ian or nearby? He's in my neighborhod as well as Todric and probably others. Are you planning on heading back home Sunday or ...???

I know I'm planning on going up to ther ORE on Sunday but maybe we can get some people together for dinner and dancing ( ) in the evening...?

yeah

if your staying in Huntington beach Doug, Patrick, you and I need to hook up for a few drinks... not a repeat of scottsdale, just a few drinks

We should be in Friday afternoon around 4PM. I asked Doug to recommend a good seafood or sushi joint for dinner.

Saturday we're going to Big Bear, probably back late.

Sunday the Expo.

Monday morning home.

Sounds good to me. We'll figure out a place when we get closer to the date.

-Doug

Ever have Shabu-Shabu ? (Please ignore the crappy out of date site)

I've been telling Patrick to try it for months... similar atmosphere to sushi... kind of a Japanese version of Mongolian BBQ.

if not, the best sushi is probably on main street in Huntington beach, Tuna Town , its owned by David Silvera from KoRn. the food is great.. not cheap but great the only downside for some may be the volume level... the place is after all owned by a member of KoRn and has their memorabilia covering the walls... so would you expect the restaurant to play elevator music?

ok ths has to win for most off-topic thread.

I've had that shabu shabu, its good. I recomend it.
I'll keep updates on this, I'd like to meet up with you guys and meet some of the out of state people.

Jacob

Are you going to run John Bull?

Jason

I hear ya, man. But at least I'm stuck in Hawaii right now.

The challenge here is finding a topic that stays on-topic for any length of time.

Naked women! That's a good topic, and if she's in a Jeep, they wouldn't suck so bad.

Here you go...
Jeep Nude Girls(not work safe)

Yup, that and another run or two, interested?

-Doug

Yeah, I would like to join you. Gold Mountain, John Bull, Holcomb Creek and White Mountain are all good runs.

Jason

Didn't know they sold Xterras as well!

X for Sale! Not Work Safe!

That is a very good point

we go from jeeps to a soap opera to sushi? what the hell is going on here!?!?!?!?!?!

EDIT: i forgot about the most important part: NAKED WOMEN!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the XOC