What is it with people and Jeeps?! Everybody thinks they are the "godsend" of 4wd society. To be honest, I've seen lots of Jeeps in my off-roading adventures, some impressing, and some losing. I've been on the rubicon, in a friends jeep, and seen the numerous mods the guys do to them. I know people who swear by them and never drive anything else in their life.

I still think they are way beyond overrated! They are unreliable, require lots of upkeep, drive like utter crap, for the most part based off a car chassis (exception wrangler) and don't really drive that well off-road in stock form :rolleyes: ...

Storytime... I was at a local 4wd trail called "twin peaks" with my old 95 4runner. I was at the base of the last stretch uphill (pretty knarly, huge staggered ruts, 45 degree slope). Put the bad boy into 4lo and crawled slowly up it. Missed the traction route two times, but made it up the hill without giving up.

Next up was a fairly modded Jeep wrangler (4.0L). Rear locker, 3 inch lift, sliders, 31 inch tires and winch. The guy tried 9 times to get up the hill and couldn't even get past the first 10 feet! I'm not sure what the deal was, but it was the happiest day of my life

Anyway, on the way back down, being a smartass, I asked if he wanted a ride up in my truck to atleast see what the view was like at the top. He impolitely refused :p Worst yet, his girlfriend was in the right seat, totally embarrased! hahahahahaha

sorry, had to rant.

The longer wheelbase in your 4runner is better for climbing. If you've ever watched motorcycle hill clibers that's why they have to extended swingarms.

Axle

But still, a locked and lifted Jeep should be more capable in most situations.

Maybe the guy had 31 inch street tires or forgot all about the front hubs?

Actually, a lift hurts you on a hill climb...the higher center of gravity biases weight rearwards when going up hill.

A longer wheelbase typically helps to climb by distributing the weight bias.

This can overwhelm the lockered tires limits of adhesion, so both tires spin. this can make the rear crab out, which on a hill, puts you off camber pretty quickly if you are not careful.

Driver control makes more of a difference off road than you can imagine. A good driver can usually do more with a stocker than a tyro can with a lifted lockered monster.

I jeeped for years, more than I've X'd, by decades...so I'm pretty familiar with the strengths and limitations.

A stock wrangler can pretty much kick a stock X's ass on most trails. The X's advantages are more apparent if you had to bring stuff with you other than repair tools.

Love the Xterra but for off roading it will never match a well done Jeep with the same type of mods as the Xterra. The X is more of an all around trail rig with serious short falls ie, small underpowered engine, IFS, rear leafs under the axle and a longer wheelbase. Most of wheelin is the driver but the vehicle helps too!!!

Tim

I just sold my jeep.... this one was a 1980 cj-5 with 5 inch lift and 33's, she was an animal in the mud. Previously I had a 1981 cj-7 that was all fiberglass, 3 inch lift and 32's she would go anywhere... I once buried the front tires coming down off a hill in 2wd... literally have to dig to find the tires, locked the hubs and she popped right out like it was a puddle. I had to sell the jeep when i went away to school the 60 mph max was just to low for the haul back and forth.. but since i've seriously thought of tracking down the guy i sold it to and asking for it back.

Everything has thier pros and cons.

Being able to do serious trails really depends on the driver. I have taken my X places that other guys in Jeeps haven't been able to go.

I now own a lifted Rubicon. There is no way that the most modded X could take the same lines I can on a hard trail. Can they make it up the trail? Probably. There is no way they would be able to take the same lines I can in the Jeep. The X just has it's limitations. (as with any other vehicle)

We ran John Bull last weekend (Big Bear, CA) The X's made it down the trail. They had a lot of problems on obstacles that I just walked right up.

I am not bashing the X. I loved mine and will always be a BIG supporter of them. I am just saying.

Jason

Are you on Rubicon Owner's Forum?

No, I belong to a Jeep club though. I still go out on every run with SCCX. We don't descriminate because of the vehicle you drive. Everyone is welcome. Plus they are a great group of people.

Jason

It's worth a trip over to the ROF forum. Much better signal to noise ratio than JU or JF.

Sometimes its not about the equipment, sometimes it falls in luck and experience.

There's no doubt, Jeeps are great vehicles, when they're not having problems. The workmanship isn't there, but in my opinion Nissan is lagging in workmanship as well. My best friend's '91 Wrangler was an absolute monster off-road with just BFG AT/KO's and no other mods. The super low gears and short wheel base are a pretty nice combination on the trail. Unfortunately, it died at 90k miles, where my Tacoma went almost 250k, and the guy who bought it said he has 300k+ now and it still drives like a champ!

Of course, so much of what a truck does or can do is up to the driver. In the Mojave desert, SCCX was held up due to a breakdown, and a few trucks were blocking a trail. A guy in a modified Jeep tried to take a bypass. He spun his tires and could not gain traction on this easy but loose hill, and could not get up it. I told him he should put it into 2nd and then try, since he was obviously overtorqued. He grumbled that he knew what the hell he was doing, and I think he was pissed that our "soccer mom mobiles" were blocking the trail. He finally gave up and we moved all the X's off the trail for him.

I've done the same thing, in a Land Rover D90. Tried to go up a hill that was no problem in my Tacoma, just put it in 1st and go. In the Landy, I got half way up and spun tires, lost all traction. I backed down the hill, tried again, and the same thing happened. I couldn't figure it out, until I put it in to 3rd (!) and the Rover went up like it was born to do it. Again, driver error. That guy you came upon on the trail had that same problem; his Jeep had not become an extension of his feet yet.

Jeeps really were a godsend to the 4WD community, without them, there would be no 4WD community. They've had more influence on our hobby than any other vehicle. Throughout their history, they've been affordable, and until very recently, nearly bulletproof.

And in the hands of someone like Jason "Loop Choke", they can do some amazing stuff. Dude knows how to drive.

I don't see why people on here talk about how unreliable Jeeps are. How many old, old CJs do you see still running around? Go on the Jeep boards and there are fewer issue posts than here...and there are a LOT more Jeeps out there. The I6 is a very, very reliable engine.

Maybe you've never really been 4 wheeling.
I wouldn't call the worst Jeep ever made a monster off-road in stock form.

You haven't read this thread have you?

Yeah I take issue with the "most modded X' statement. Gears and both lockers in an X with a decent driver will follow or lead a Rubicon anywhere.

That said the Rubicon is the best off road vehicle right OFF THE LOT.

How long it lasts is anybodys guess.

Yes, I've been 4 wheeling, and I was mistaken, it was an '89 YJ w/ the 4.2 inline 6 (carbed), and I wouldn't call the YJ the worst Jeep ever made. Did it flood when off-camber? Yes. Did it have mad reliability problems? Yes. Jeep had a ton of quality control problems in the '80s, I'll concede that the AMC/Iacocca years were not the good times, but it wasn't as bad as the Cherokee of the same era (Hello, Peugeot drive train, saggy unibody?). And yes, for a moderate off-roader, the YJ has more potential due to SWB and low gears than most 4 wheelers need. Is it a monster? Maybe I exaggerated a touch, but it was very capable....especially when it ran. (ahem!)

These impressions I have of Jeep quality are the very reasons I don't own one. Yes, I understand that there are reliable Jeeps out there. But they're not Toyotas.

the early year wranglers were crap compared to the CJs before it and the wranglers that have replaced it. Both in capablity and quailty(and thats saying a lot since the CJ's had to be fixed almost daily)

I would take CJ-7 anyday over an old wrangler

We only discriminate when we are taking group pictures at an Xterra event.

I think that will change. :p

Since Jason is running for the new SCCXterra board of directors... when he no longer owns a Xterra... I guess anything is possible.

Since his SCCX sig line is "Follow me... if you can". :rolleyes:

Maybe he can be the Xterra trail boss. He can show his followers the Xterra's limitations.

No. SCCX website was down. Came over here an read how your Rubicon can out do Xterra's. I am not bashing you. It just brought back bad memories of a certain vehicle owner who was going to "school" me with his solid axle vehicle on the Rubicon Trail. Funny thing though he never made it to the trail in his vehicle. It broke down on the freeway and I towed it 5 miles on the freeway to the next exit. I let him drive for 2 hours on the Rubicon. When we got back he bragged on XOC, SCCX and The Unofficial Xterra Board about how he did the Rubicon. He had promised to let me post first. His post never mentioned me or the fact it was my Xterra. That same person took a group of Xterra's into a canyon which was beyond their vehicle capability. He then left them overnight and went home.

IMHO a XTERRA club should have policy decided by XTERRA owners. When we started SCCX in December 1999 we liberally allowed any vehicle to join us. Frontiers were considered honorary members. Anyone should be allowed to go on runs. The "crap" I started on SCCX was in protest of a Xterra owner quitting the board because he did not like the direction the club was going. The "crap" I started caused two board members who no longer owned Xterra's(one because he rolled it) to dissolve the board of directors. The two then announce they had been planning a Extreme Rock Crawling Club anyway. People blame me for the webmaster giving a 72 hour notice to shut down the website. :rolleyes: Now he has more time to set up their Extreme Rock Crawling Club since they own vehicles together.

I have NO problem with ANY non-Xterra owner being involved with the club as much as they want. I have a PROBLEM with ANY non-XTERRA owner setting policy. When my Xterra was sold I intended to resign from the BOD and then become a honorary member.

As far as what people have said about me making "Negative Comments" on SCCX... I have the resolve to say and do what I think is best for the club. The indecision in club WRITTEN policy hopeful will be resolved by the soon to be elected 9+ member board of directors.

One good thing about having(an paying for) the toll free SCCX hotline for four years.... is I know I am not alone... in my feelings about the direction the club has been going.

In my personal life I have literally fought City Hall and the Police for inaction and flawed policy.

1) 30 years of broken curbs, sidewalks, and gutters. After a year of a very public fight two streets down from a $30 million city hall have been replaced!

2) A year ago a street down from me had 150 cars travel on it per day. It now has over 1,200 cars per day looking for movie theatre parking. Literally smoking crack in their cars before going stoned to a movie. Still fighting this one.

3) I fought the Police to change a insane policy that was about making money and ignored protecting children and adults. I need to update my website... but after over a year of a very public fight... I got policy changed! http://www.culvercity.tv/

I imagine the City Council and Police Department thinks I started "crap".

As far as you not liking me anymore... you are entitled to state how you feel about me. I respect your right to your feelings. I also have the resolve to state how I feel about the people and policies of the club I helped found.

Give me a call on the SCCX toll-free hotline. (866) 2-XTERRA

Cary

I had a feeling this would happen.

Dude, sounds like you have a lot of personal issues you need to work out. longerurlforthosewhonee dtocompensatefortinyissuesbetweentheirlegsandneedtoacttough . Or are you just trying to say in a roundabout way that you really don't like Jeeps (which is what this thread is about)?

Your tiny url was longer then the actual url.

Bought my first Jeep 16 years ago.

Maybe y'all should rename your fucking club.
If you allow any vehicle to join, it's not really an Xterra club now is it ?