need some tips for 4wheeling on snow covered trails with bf/muds

Don't get high centered. The only time i get stuck is when i high center. Be careful on trails after a fresh snow, as the ruts may be 1' deep, with lots of snow under them. I did that & "fell" through.. On roads, same as anything else, slow down. Your breaks won't work as well (actully they will be fine, it is the lack of traction that makes the stopping distances take longer), Don't corner at any great speed, if you hit a patch of ice, well it gets "Exciting"..

Deffinetly make sure you air down.The wider your footprint the more traction you'll have.Snow is sometimes worse than mud,it can get really slippery.Keep your tranny in 4-lo and let your motor do most of the work rather than your brakes,especially going down hills..
Another thing is to check out the area your wheelin' in.Reason being is that the snow covers alot(rocks,ruts,sticks and so on).Have a shovel handy in case you have to dig yourself out.Never travel alone.Bring an extra pair of shoes & socks(in case you have to get yourself un-stuck and your shoes & socks get soaked).Also if you get yourself stuck pretty decent use stuff like tree branches and rocks and put them around tires to gain traction..

But wheelin' in the snow isn't all that bad as long as you keep in mind some of the things that I mentioned.I personally love it.It makes all the trails that your used too challenging all over again...

I would suggest airing UP, not down. Unless you're in deep snow with no chance of getting down through it, you want HIGH contact pressure to open up the tread and bite down through the snow/slush/mud to get traction, otherwise you're more apt to spin/slide on top of the stuff you compress under the tire and get nowhere. If it's a heavy wet snow, air up. If it's a deep fluffy powder snow, air down.

Brent

Bring a pair of gloves and a shovel, or a towstrap/shackle and another vehicle. Last time I went snow-wheeling (with one other X) in the Sierras we spent nearly half our time towstrapping each other out.

AIR DOWN!

Don't know where you wheel Brent but that is plain wrong. You want to float on the snow, whether its heavy or powder. The only thing that slightly makes sense is that you would create more resistance by being a wider tire. But for the most part AIR DOWN.

We wheel alot in the snow here in Utah. You NEVER air up. We usually take tires that are 2 or 3 ply down to 12 psi, sometimes less. Sometimes even 4 psi, but then you run the risk of blowing a bead.

Momentum and flotation. If you can rock the X it is not stuck. Just keep compacting the snow until you can float on top of it.

NEVER go alone. NEVER! Take a tow strap that will allow someone else to "yank" you out. Not pull you out slowly, but a nice tugging yank. NO METAL ENDS ON THE STRAP! D-rings, hooks, etc. Don't forget to use a blanket/jacket or something over the strap in case it decides to go under full tension.

Extra clothing... a must, as mentioned above.

Shovel and other recovery gear is good, but it will never replace another vehicle. We just went up on Saturday and it took 3 Xterras to pull a full size Dodge Ram out of a mess. (His buddy in a Ford simply left him there and blamed him for not getting a Ford!!! - good thing we were up there!)

Snow wheelin is a blast. It is almost like being at Disneyland where you follow someone else's packed tracks, but when its time to plow into virgin snow there is nothing like floating on top of the snow.

On a lighter side, the stock step rails are great pontoons... give 'em a shot sometime, they actually keep the X floating!

Eh? Ever see the tires they run on World Rally cars for snow rallies? They look like freakin' temporary donut spares, skinny little suckers. Yeah, they're studded too, but they use the narrow tire to increase contact pressure to get the tire to bite into the surface better. Same applies here. You can't get a 2-ton SUV to "float" on the snow short of a set of Mattracks, the tires WILL pack the snow under them. Sure that's fine, until you need more traction, in which case an aired-down tire will be less prone to bite into the packed snow and will just spin on top of it.

Seriously, airing up is the answer. You have better clearance, higher contact pressure, and better traction as a result. Not to mention the cold temps will have already knocked your psi down a bit.

Brent

Ever been wheeling in the snow, real snow!!!

Been there 2 days ago...

You really need to get out more buddy!

I don't know I've always had better results airing down in the countless times I've been wheelin' in the snow...

You reffered to the tires of the Rally cars being narrow,but I strongly believe they are skinny to slice thru the snow so the studs can get a bite in the ground...

Why are snow shoes so wide if narrow is better?

Tire pressure is only one consideration when driving on snow-covered trails presumably where no vehicular traffic has packed the snow. The original poster also said he has BFG MT's. MT's will tend to dig into the snow more than AT's so flotation (ie. lower tire pressure) will be more important. Figure that the snow is covering wet dirt (i.e. very shallow mud) so reduced tire pressure is also a good idea. Also, the big lugs will tend to self-clean better than AT's.

Last winter I wheeled in the Sierras (which is a few hours east of the topic starter's location, Stockton) and even with aired-down tires (BFG ATs) my buddy and I both got stuck several times, requiring tow straps and/or winching.

The bottom line is that even if you run the "ideal" tire pressure, whether high or low, you can still get stuck: high-centered on your underbelly, all 4 tires spinning away.

One last tip (since that's what you asked anyway): wear clothing appropriate for being out in snow. Do not make the mistake of believing that just because you're driving, not hiking, that you won't actually have to get out of your truck and walk around in the snow. It's gonna be you, after all, that has to hook up that tow strap.

Unless you are on a PACKED road (like the WRC guys), airing up will get you nothing but stuck. Ask the guy driving the Dodge cummings that we pulled out of the snow last Saturday. If the snow is deep enough for you to high center in then no amount of extra air in your tires is going to give you enough ground clearance to make a damn bit of difference.

We wheel in snow 2+ feet deep regularly. The guy in the dodge was chained up with street pressure and all it got him was stuck. After we had him air down and we got him out of the drift he was stuck in he was able to continue on his merry way.

If you're wheeling in real snow your best bet is to give yourself as much floatation as possible.

I'll throw my vote (what little its worth) strongly in the "air down" camp.

If you air up you have a small footprint and a hard tire that won't grab anything. When you air down you get a wider footprint and extra grip, both of which make a big differnce. The ground clearance difference is negligible.

I live in Minneapolis, I hunt in the extreme northern confines of Minnesota and have driven through countless miles of snow covered trails up there. I drive on snow covered lakes to go fishing. I tow fish houses and equipment through two to three foot snow drifts on frozen lakes to go fishing.

Air down. Period.

1. Definitely don't go by yourself

2. Bring midget snow shovel or army shovel

3. When approaching banked turns, be very careful with your speed and power application. Too much power (especially on a manual tranny) can break traction and cause the truck to side slip out of control.

4. When going downhill, never downshift in 2wd. Im sure youve heard that one before, but so many dumbass tourists do it here countless times each year.

Besides the obvious measures, most of the skill on snow driving comes from years experience. You can listen to the tips being given to you by a bunch of flat landers, but when it comes down to it, you'll only know when you've done it.

Enjoy

I don't think I've heard one that before. Why not? Does it apply mostly to FWD cars? I thought it's better to downshift than to ride the brakes when going downhill. Is it OK to downshift after your speed is already within the RPM range of the lower gear?

if and when you get stuck and successfully get yourself out, dont forget to write your name in the snow with pee...it will help warn others of treacherous obstacles below, in addition to help clearing the snow so they can see it better

the issue is downshifting, and expecting the clutch to match wheel speed to engine speed.. on pavement the tires win, on ice/snow the engine wins. so consider the rear end goes from 30 to 20 in .5 seconds, and the truck starts sliding to the side. add this to the fact that you are already heading downhill, your speed increases. Unless you have already planned out what you are going to do, you are screwed. Most people in a skid hit the brakes, and now you have a 4 wheel skid. On ice there may not be enough traction (as the rear end is skidding sideways) to spin up the engine end stop the skid, so until you slow down by some other means then engine brakeing, you may me skidding till you hit somthing. the only answers are tap the gas (and be good / lucky, or punch the clutch, and hope the road is wide enough to get the rear end moving up to speed before you run out of road. this is assuming you driving into the skid, and not going into a flat spin..

Hey Brent, I thought therapy and meds might help. Guess not.
Shut up please.
Air up; indeed.
(edit to add)
In case you missed the sarcasm; air down for better traction.

thanks for the response fellas

Who said I was in therapy and on meds?

Anyway, Bill Burke (who I believe Ian holds highly) even says to keep the pressures up in snow:
" Planning is deciding how you\'re going t...h as 25 pounds.
" For snow, on- and off-highway, I like to... to grip better "
Then again, he does admit there are times when airing down can help, at least compared to chains:
http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/winter.htm

Brent

OK, one more time Brent... so from personal experience what works for you.

Answer the damn question!

I had absolutely no problem out and about in 18+ inches of unplowed snow on my BFG ATs at normal (~30 psi) pressure. When I did have a problem, it was from getting somewhat high-centered, in which case airing down would have just made it worse.

Here's another article on 4wheeler's site that talks about snow, tire design, and pressure:

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/131_0212_CAMP_TIRE/index2.html

It appears that there is no "standard" rule for ideal tire pressure in snow. Ideal pressure appears to depend on snow depth, tread design and even the rubber compound.

What Brent is saying is meritorious. Only in "shallow" snow. Any thing over 1 foot (in an Xterra), I would DEFINITELY air down. Airing up and using narrow tires is a great way to get grip at the bottom, on the hardpack, close to the ground. An acquaintance of mine has a lifted Jeep with 33x9.50's mudders on it. He doesn't air down. That thing is an absolute BEAST in the snow. I've driven military Hummers through 2++ feet of snow, with high pressure (and 38" tires) with no problems. Hard packed areas like this picture(below) get so rutted that an aired down vehicle may not clear the pumpkin:



And if you don't(clear the pumpkin), it'll be stuck on solid ice!

For the "soupy" conditions that I frequently encounter, however, seem much easier to negotiate with low pressure. I've actually gotten stuck in a snow drift and had to be pulled out. After airing down, I drove right through it. From my experience in the large volume of snow that we get in the mountains here, I think, as a general rule, airing down is the way to go.

Watch out, though. The depth of snow is very difficult to judge. It's very easy to get stuck and very time-consuming to dig yourself out. I always carry blankets and sleeping bags "just in case".

The good news is, it is less of a tug to get out of snow than mud. Don't travel alone. If you absolutely must, then a porta-winch ($50-$70 at pepboys or harbor freight) might just save the day. Those little 1500# winches hook up to the trailer hitch or a tow hook and can pull you out of minor snowdrifts. Hopefully you're not going to try to drive through major ones......

Good luck!

Bring these items:

Appropriate clothing and footwear for hiking wherever it is you plan to drive.

At least 2 pairs of gloves.

Sleeping bags & blankets. (6 people died of exposure in Colorado Springs' last major blizzard; blankets may have saved their lives.)

http://ccc.atmos.colostate.edu/~odie/climsum/oct97.html

Full-size spade shovel.

Army entrenching tool (folding shovel).

Tools.

Porta winch.

Hi-lift jack. (needs sliders or metal bumper to be used)

At least 2 pairs of gloves.

GPS

Cell phone (you'd be amazed where you can get a signal)

Some links:

Matterhorn Boots

WOW! 3000# porta-winch

E-tool

Also watch the frozen over mud puddles.You never know how deep they are.A buddy of mine went wheelin' one day and he went to cross this small water puddle and broke thru and got stuck.And where he was made it hard for me to pull him out cause I was getting no traction.But luckily I had my hi-lift...