Quote:
Originally posted by BurgPath:
Nope, not buying it.

And the skateboard and cars passing each other are poor analogies.

To me this is no different then being on a bike thats on a treadmill. The treadmill moves backwards at the same speed my wheels move forward.

If you come up behind me and push me, and the treadmill compensates for the added forward motion (as the original problem states), I will stay in the same place.

To me, thats what the plane and its thrust do.
Explain the hovercraft. Or the example I used on ice skates.

The jet engines' thrust is enough to move the plane relative to earth (regardless of what's under it - a treadmill, a conveyor belt, ice, water, whatever). If it's moving relative to earth, it's also moving relative to the air (assuming a calm day). This moves the wings through the air to create lift.
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"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist